[Suggestion] More HP and Shield bar for all Infantry?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by AuricStarSand, May 21, 2024.

  1. AuricStarSand

    - Health points for Knifers? Not enough hp, vampire isn't useful.

    - HP for medics to heal others? Not even hp, barely feel like your helping them.

    - Shield Bar? Effects that grant you more shield bar? Guns that give allies aoe buffs for more shield bar?

    - Ways to heal shield bar, after given more shield bar.

    - Enough shield bar for shield pod regen to make a big difference? barely.

    - Enough HP and Shield bar for new players to not die too soon to HS's? nope.

    - Enough shield bar & hp for people to not want sniper infils banned? nope.

    - Enough HP to favor medical kit, over c4, for HA? nope.

    - Enough hp / shield to survive door pushes? no.

    - Enough hp to not die to LMG's at 0.1 seconds 1 foot away? no.

    If not a default buff to all hp / shield bars. Maybe just aoe guns that buff the size of your shield / hp bar?

    Seems this games shield bar / hp bar is based off Counter Strike twitch gameplay, which never took off, & really isn't a format for 60vs60 anyways. Where you have to survive more bullets. From every direction.

    Healing people as medic for sure seems pointless. Ressing them is ok, healing them not ok. They die at the same speed whiether full hp or a sliver of hp, makes barely any difference. Unless you're some sweater 120 fps HA, then sure they use medical kit, tho I don't see many of them either. C4 works.

    How much hp would people need for hp healing effects, to seem like their making a difference? like 60%+ more.

    Same for shield bars, if they give shield bar buff aoe guns; still need larger blue bars to utilize.
    Maybe test server.

    Tho 0.1 second twitch gameplay naw < teamwork effects based on added hp & shield gains? yes.
  2. Lizbon

    After Sony the game is almost over. I think DBG should release PS2 REMASTERED or PS3 instead of making money by constantly adding new items to this game :) I don't think they will take your feedback here very seriously. Because all they know is to produce new items and sell them by adding them to the warehouse. :D
  3. AuricStarSand

    Funds are what they are. Feature idea's are for any game the devs work on.

    I did ask them for a sunderer trailer & reddit just took a photo of one. So who knows. Best wishes.
  4. AuricStarSand

    The lesson is; you suggestively; don't have Counter Strike Lobby Infantry HP levels. For a battlefield game.

    Look at it this way; Halo Infintie has 1000% less stuff shooting at you & Halo Infinite chars survive longer more often, while their shield bar doesn't even register hs kills, till it breaks.

    So a game with 60+ more people shooting at you from all directions = not counter strike twitch gameplay = not low hp / shield bars.
    Infantry is bolstered to survive for the amount of players per map.

    Possibly 200+ enemies per map = 200% more hp and shield bar then counter strike / halo infinite.

    Halo Infinite is 12vs12.

    The issue would be how to allow tanks to 1 shot infantry still. Unless they don't & just have tanks have more hp too. So global hp buff. Either way, ye not twitch lobby hp lvls, for a battlefield game. Even if some battlefield games have quick kill times, I wouldn't suggest.

    Fast infantry kill times are for games where they have 1vs1's 3vs3's & not much else happening. Besides running through empty buildings finding loot boxes.
    Not ness 100vs100vs100.
  5. Gyallarhorn

    This is a bad Idea. If I even understood it correctly.

    If you give us tools to increase health/shield pools, then you will have to rebalance a lot of guns as suddenly they won't hit certain break points anymore while others will. This will result in some guns having a TTK that is potentially vastly superior to other guns.

    Ever wondered why the guns have such strange damage numbers such as 167 damage per bullet? It's for this very reason. The weapon is supposed to kill in a certain time with a certain number of bullets. Low RPM weapons could get extremely bad because of this, as missing another threshold will prolong their TTK significantly more than that of High RPM weapons.

    Basically you can't add a Health pool increase without rebalancing literally ALL guns in the game.

    Also there are two classes in the game, that basically already increase their effective health pool. Heavy assault and Medic.
    The Medics are also not supposed to heal against enemy damage, they are supposed to heal you up after you made it back to cover. MAX units are bullet spongy enough with an Engi. No need for more of that.
  6. AuricStarSand

    Maybe, you'd have to test to see.

    Tho so far most of the op guns aren't rpm smg's or carbines.
    Then medic assault rifles, medics don't really kill me noticeably often anyways.
    Also Assault rifles do a ton of dmg, more hp wouldn't effect their hs speeds much.
    New players surviving longer to practice aiming, is more important.

    As far as LMG's. LMG's have so many bullets, more hp wouldn't matter. If anything it'd make HA verse HA gameplay better, since you get to shoot at another HA a second longer.

    That just leaves what? Sniper & Scout rifles, which are already op if you have over 100 fps. Making for tons of anti Infil threads.
    Would the vast majority of people mind of a sniper now took 1 hs & 1 bodyshot to kill? People would probably prefer that tbh.
    Same goes for Scout rifles, now takes 3 headshots. I'm fine with that.

    So what exact gun are we talking about?
    Maybe people might have to reload a carbine a tad more, I'd be fine with that, seeing as Light Assault kill new player medics too often. & Light Assault vets cheese rooftop 1vs1's. I'd personally rather survive a 1vs1 rooftop interaction more often. Seeing as its just a " who has more fps contest " & I sure don't. Thus why the LA have bounties on roofs.

    Now with more hp / shield, I get to jump off the roof before dying to a 1vs1 LA duel.

    I mean wouldn't more hp effect all guns " threshhold " not just high rpm? Isn't a threshhold just so infantry dies like paper too fast, before they get to run around the corner?

    Heavy Assaults don't increase anything you can heal or buff. Healing them as medic doesn't seem rewarding, it's a sliver of health. & their shield won't even get them past a door frame 99% of the time.

    Medics healing you back after cover, seems below average. That's why most medics just hide behind doors. & medics healing isn't a game changer, only the ress is. The healing is so minor you may as well not heal at all. Why bother.
    I don't use medkits ever. Nor need Vampire as the main knifer.

    May as well just let the guy die & ress him, don't need to heal.
    I'd rather use the med tool, or some aoe gun, to buff someones shield bar for 30 seconds.

    Max's? My NC shield max is at half hp as soon as I pull the guy. Then I have no regen & theirs barely any engis around, mostly medics; that's why I've asked for medics to be able to heal max's. Not ress Max's, just heal them. So engis + medics get to heal max.

    I only get repaired as a max when shooting Mattocks; about 1 out of 40 max pulls. The other times I'm never repaired during the fighting & have to run back to find a engi. Which defeats the whole purpose of a shield max. To be repaired during the shooting. Not after. With medics + engis healing a max, they still won't survive a door most of the time, unless the enemy lets you walk through or has less people.

    Grenades might not 1 hit kill, tho nasons tunnel shows that grenades are too much a hot potatoe experience anyways. & most people are too lazy to equip anti grenade armor. Too niche. If frag grenades don't 1 hit, well simply make them cost less nanites to use. Solved. Frag grenade = more hp = doesn't 1 hit = frag grenade now costs 25 nanites. or nades do more dmg only, since they aren't bullets.

    They might not have to rework any gun, is changing the hp / shield bar that difficult? If not sounds like a ez test server test.
    Besides just saying RPM, it'd be easier for me to tell if that's true, if you instead list the few exact guns & their names? example. you believe wouldn't KO at the time it needs to.

    They could even have a alert; where it's a event alert; " Everyone gets 60% to 80% more hp / shield bar " for this alert. 1 out of 6 alerts & see what the players think. All I know is for sure healing is too minor to for it to matter, the health bar is unimportant, mostly only the shield bar matters. & the shield bar has nothing but a pod to regen it a tad sooner. That's kinda average, as far as support goes.

    So really the main support is only resses. That matter. Not healing.
    no class is tanky. & yes the kill times are lobby gamed based. Not open field based.
  7. AuricStarSand

    They could also use Koltyr + Nexus as infantry themed maps, to test this.
  8. Gyallarhorn

    Lots of things to address.
    Let's start with thresholds.
    The thresholds I am talking about are how many bullets it takes to kill a target at a given range.

    The TTK (=time to kill) depends on the Rate of fire and the damage. How many bullets do I need at a minimum to kill an enemy and how fast can my gun shoot that number of bullets.

    These times should be as similar as possible between guns to keep them balanced with each other. With more accurate guns still being a little slower for kills, than less accurate guns, as the accurate guns will perform better at range to balance them. Some weapon gimmicks also play differently into this balance.

    For example with a 167 damage weapon (like TMG-50) you need at least 6 shots to kill a target. With a 125 damage weapon (like MG-H1 Watchman) you need at least 8.
    167 x 6 = 1002
    125 x 9 = 1000

    If we now add just 3 points of health, both guns need at least one more bullet for the kill.
    But since the 167 gun fires much slower than the 125 gun, this is an effective nerf for the 167. Because the TTK for both guns doesn't grow equally. It just grows by the time it takes for each gun to fire just one more bullet, which will be significantly less for the 125.

    Depending on how much more health you add, these thresholds differ. If you add 165 shield, the 165 will only have to fire one additional round, while the 125 needs to fire two additional rounds. It takes the 125 longer to fire two additional rounds than it takes the 167 to fire one additional round.
    In this case the change suddenly favors the 167 over the 125. Simply because the TTK increase is not equal between the guns.

    This whole debacle gets even worse when we add range falloff for damage. Some guns might suddenly drop more damage tiers than others since their falloff is more significant, making them even less viable at range, while other guns are impacted less.

    As you can see, simply adding more shield health affects the different guns in different ways and thus they all would need to be rebalanced so their TTK stays similar enough to each other.

    Regrarding Healing as a Medic.
    If you're never healing anyone, then you are playing medic wrong. Don't use the medic tool. Use your healing aura, since it allows you to keep your gun out. Use rezz grenades that revive only at half health.

    As far as I know, everyone, except Scouts I think, have 500 health and 500 shield. If you revive someone with a rezz grenade and heal them back up, that's basically 25% of their total health. If we follow the math from before, that means they can now take at least one, maybe two bullets more, if we don't count headshots. Just being able to take one bullet more is often times the difference between you dying and you and your opponent dying in this game. Taking two bullets more is the difference between both of you dying and them dying while you live. If you go into a 1 vs 1 with 25% health missing, you both see each other at the same time and start shooting at the same time, you will loose 100% of the time. Basically at that point all you can do is hope, that your opponent is a very bad shot and you hit more shots than them. Saying healing doesn't matter is simply not true. There is a reason why everyone and their grandma is carrying medkits.

    Which brings me to another point. Your job is not to have your healing tool out and heal your buddies. This is not TF2.

    You are a COMBAT Medic. You have an assault rifle for a reason. Use it. Keep it in your hand as much as you can. Throw a rezz grenade and use your gun to hold that corner or door an enemy might push through. Once the rezz grenade gets them up, activate your area heal to get them to 100% health while STILL being ready to put some bullets through the helmets of your enemies.