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Modern gamer psychology and how I hope it does not influence the future development of Planetside 2.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Baleur, Jan 11, 2013.

Page 5 of 8

Nocturnal7x

I think part of the issue is games have become a lot more complex.

Nocturnal7x, Jan 12, 2013

#81
Flarestar
Baleur said: ↑

“This is a thread that has been in the making in my head since late beta.
I really have no idea how to properly lay this out, so I'll just write down my thoughts in a rather irregular fashion.
I apologize if it sounds like nonsense, it probably will offend a great deal of you, as the majority falls into the category of gamers I will discuss.
If this thread ends up just recieving the same nonsense flame replies that many other threads recieve, I'll simply not read them. It's not worth the trouble. They are just proving my point.
For the rest of you, I invite you to a discussion about this topic, and what, if anything, can be done to gradually change the modern psychology of current generation gamers.

Disclamers:
1. This has nothing to do with player skill.
2. This has nothing to do with player age.
3. This has everything to do with maturity.

I'm only 27, I'm not even an old man or a father. Yet when it comes to this I feel very old, like a relic of a by-gone age.
I belong to the sort-of-first generation of gamers. I did not play Pong or Pacman, but i played all that followed, ever since the Commodore 64 and 8-bit NES.
In "my time", when we played games, as we used to, we played to have fun.
I used to play a whole bunch of different strategy games, rts games and fps games with my friends. We played until we became one with the game, we played so much that we learnt the ins and outs of the games we loved, with not even a single second spent thinking about "game balance".

The words "overpowered" or "underpowered" did not exist in our vocabulary.
We didn't think in the same ways that todays gamers think.
When we failed, when we failed against an opponent in a game we never once thought about what was wrong about the game. We thought about what was wrong with our own playstyle, or our own preformance within that game.
We discussed weapons that we had a hard time using, and figured out situations and ways to properly take advantage of them. We discussed units and factions we had a hard time using, and figured out what we did wrong and what we had to change in order to succeed with them.

We did not consider the games to be faulty, even if they in some cases probably were.
We dealt with what the game provided, and "manned up" to figure out how to handle it.

Today, things have changed.
Today gamers don't do this anymore. Some of the ones that do are called pro-gamers, because it is something rare these days to see a person adapt and become proficent in more than 1 thing. A player that doesn't have a loser mentality and goes on forums to cry, but rather wipes himself off and dives back in to try to better himself and his preformance.

It is strange how this, which was once part of every gamer, is now largely reserved for the pro scene.
Again, what I am discussing has nothing to do about skill. It is about player mentality.

Today, if a gamer does poorly in a game, no matter what genre, he or she (mostly "he", i've noticed female gamers are quite alot more careful about prematurely judging faults within the game compared to males), instantly jumps to a sort of cyber-paranoid delusion that the game and game developers are out to "get him".
That the entire game world is balanced in such a way to make it as hard and unfair as possible for the player in question.

There is no attempt at analyzing the situation. There is no attempt at trying to better himself as a player.
The only thing he resorts to is this delusion that the entire world is unfair, and his unbelievably inhuman skills can not possibly have been at fault.
Every gamer today is a self-entitled professional with flawless tactics and skill, and any shred of evidence to the contrary is objective proof that the game in question is unbalanced against his favor.

Sid Meier talked quite a bit about this very topic, how he even had to change the random number generator for combat in Civilization, because players felt that the computer was "cheating" if they lost a 2:1 odds battle, despite the mathematical possibility of such a loss.
This lead to the inclusion of "cheats" in favor of the player, to feed their self-delusions. The players got a certain number of "free wins", despite the combat odds, each turn. This is but one example of how an increasing loser mentality among gamers can negatively affect the mechanics of a game during development.

It makes me sad to see. And a bit "scared". In the sense that I've seen games I knew and loved be turned into garbage because developers listened too intently to the vocal new generation playerbase, as opposed to sticking with their original vision and quite frankly better more mature judgement.

I'm scared that the same thing will happen to Planetside 2.
Because it has happened to the entire games industry.
Games these days require no thought, and are designed to be as mind-numbingly simplistic as possible to avoid sparking the flame of the new generation of gamers delusions about imbalance and their own imagined self-importance.

Games become homogenized indistinguishable clones of each other, as nobody dares to strive too far off the fine balance to keep players egos satisfied with imaginary achievements (You got TRIPLE KILL!! 300 xp!), while still retaining some shred of varied gameplay at all.

This is not about improvements that could and should be made to games, such as more metagame for Planetside 2.
This is about players ragequitting after 15 minutes, claiming that the game is unbalanced, without learning the ins and outs of the game first. And the risk of such a community negatively affecting the development path the game takes.

Higby, T-Ray, Maggie, Jimmy, and all others..
Please use your best judgement, regarding balance.
We don't need another game where everything are carbon copies of each other, where player skill and self-improvement has lost ground to self-delusions of grandeur.

Discuss.”

I really want to like this post. It's well-thought out, maturely written, and coherent. The problem is that you're basically wrong on all counts.

Gamers have always acknowledged, and complained about, things in games being absurdly hard, overpowered, underpowered, etc. This goes back to times before videogames even became a major thing, back to the good old days of pen and paper gaming. There have always been scrubs, there have always been noobs, there have always been players that were useless or amazing. There have always been players that wanted things NOW, that weren't willing to be patient, just as there were players who understood risk vs. reward and effort vs. accessibility.

The difference between then and now is that gamers just didn't have easily accessible, official game forums to turn into ****storms of whining and complaints. And thus, their voices weren't heard. Games were designed, balanced, and adjusted based on focus group feedback and internal testing. And they were better for it.

So basically, the problem isn't gamer psychology. The problem is that the game-makers started listening to the gamers.
- x 2
Flarestar, Jan 12, 2013

#82 Last edited by Flarestar, Jan 12, 2013
GhostAvatar
Baleur said: ↑

“This is a thread that has been in the making in my head since late beta.
I really have no idea how to properly lay this out, so I'll just write down my thoughts in a rather irregular fashion.
I apologize if it sounds like nonsense, it probably will offend a great deal of you, as the majority falls into the category of gamers I will discuss.
If this thread ends up just recieving the same nonsense flame replies that many other threads recieve, I'll simply not read them. It's not worth the trouble. They are just proving my point.
For the rest of you, I invite you to a discussion about this topic, and what, if anything, can be done to gradually change the modern psychology of current generation gamers.

Disclamers:
1. This has nothing to do with player skill.
2. This has nothing to do with player age.
3. This has everything to do with maturity.

I'm only 27, I'm not even an old man or a father. Yet when it comes to this I feel very old, like a relic of a by-gone age.
I belong to the sort-of-first generation of gamers. I did not play Pong or Pacman, but i played all that followed, ever since the Commodore 64 and 8-bit NES.
In "my time", when we played games, as we used to, we played to have fun.
I used to play a whole bunch of different strategy games, rts games and fps games with my friends. We played until we became one with the game, we played so much that we learnt the ins and outs of the games we loved, with not even a single second spent thinking about "game balance".

The words "overpowered" or "underpowered" did not exist in our vocabulary.
We didn't think in the same ways that todays gamers think.
When we failed, when we failed against an opponent in a game we never once thought about what was wrong about the game. We thought about what was wrong with our own playstyle, or our own preformance within that game.
We discussed weapons that we had a hard time using, and figured out situations and ways to properly take advantage of them. We discussed units and factions we had a hard time using, and figured out what we did wrong and what we had to change in order to succeed with them.

We did not consider the games to be faulty, even if they in some cases probably were.
We dealt with what the game provided, and "manned up" to figure out how to handle it.

Today, things have changed.
Today gamers don't do this anymore. Some of the ones that do are called pro-gamers, because it is something rare these days to see a person adapt and become proficent in more than 1 thing. A player that doesn't have a loser mentality and goes on forums to cry, but rather wipes himself off and dives back in to try to better himself and his preformance.

It is strange how this, which was once part of every gamer, is now largely reserved for the pro scene.
Again, what I am discussing has nothing to do about skill. It is about player mentality.

Today, if a gamer does poorly in a game, no matter what genre, he or she (mostly "he", i've noticed female gamers are quite alot more careful about prematurely judging faults within the game compared to males), instantly jumps to a sort of cyber-paranoid delusion that the game and game developers are out to "get him".
That the entire game world is balanced in such a way to make it as hard and unfair as possible for the player in question.

There is no attempt at analyzing the situation. There is no attempt at trying to better himself as a player.
The only thing he resorts to is this delusion that the entire world is unfair, and his unbelievably inhuman skills can not possibly have been at fault.
Every gamer today is a self-entitled professional with flawless tactics and skill, and any shred of evidence to the contrary is objective proof that the game in question is unbalanced against his favor.

Sid Meier talked quite a bit about this very topic, how he even had to change the random number generator for combat in Civilization, because players felt that the computer was "cheating" if they lost a 2:1 odds battle, despite the mathematical possibility of such a loss.
This lead to the inclusion of "cheats" in favor of the player, to feed their self-delusions. The players got a certain number of "free wins", despite the combat odds, each turn. This is but one example of how an increasing loser mentality among gamers can negatively affect the mechanics of a game during development.

It makes me sad to see. And a bit "scared". In the sense that I've seen games I knew and loved be turned into garbage because developers listened too intently to the vocal new generation playerbase, as opposed to sticking with their original vision and quite frankly better more mature judgement.

I'm scared that the same thing will happen to Planetside 2.
Because it has happened to the entire games industry.
Games these days require no thought, and are designed to be as mind-numbingly simplistic as possible to avoid sparking the flame of the new generation of gamers delusions about imbalance and their own imagined self-importance.

Games become homogenized indistinguishable clones of each other, as nobody dares to strive too far off the fine balance to keep players egos satisfied with imaginary achievements (You got TRIPLE KILL!! 300 xp!), while still retaining some shred of varied gameplay at all.

This is not about improvements that could and should be made to games, such as more metagame for Planetside 2.
This is about players ragequitting after 15 minutes, claiming that the game is unbalanced, without learning the ins and outs of the game first. And the risk of such a community negatively affecting the development path the game takes.

Higby, T-Ray, Maggie, Jimmy, and all others..
Please use your best judgement, regarding balance.
We don't need another game where everything are carbon copies of each other, where player skill and self-improvement has lost ground to self-delusions of grandeur.

Discuss.”

Is this really entirely an issue with the modern gamer, or is it the modern developer. In the days of 8-bit gaming you didn't have such things as updates to the game (talking consoles here) or regular large patches (56k modem days, if you even had internet back then). As such a game was shipped as is, any mistakes the developers had made in the game could not be rectified post launch. This meant that games where thoroughly tested in the QA phase of development.

Gaming company's have always desired to get there game to market as soon as possible, so they can start making a return on investment. But in the age where there wasn't updates, they could ill afford to ship a substandard game as it would impact on the revenue from poor sales or bad reviews. This didn't change until the advent of broadband connections and internet enabled games consoles. Now the present day we have regular content updates and hotfix patches, the gamers have become the QA testers for the games. As such substandard games are knowingly shipped regularly with the intent of fixing the game post launch. All in a effort to cut development time and start generating revenue upon there investment. SOE even went one step further, by releasing the alpha package prior to launch to get a return on investment.

Thus the mentality of the modern gamer has been created by the games developers themselves. This is just a brief comment on the modern day gamer/developer relationship and I didn't go to deep, but there are many other factors that also contributed to what we face now. Needless to say, it is here now and wont go away any times soon - we just have to deal with it.
- x 1
GhostAvatar, Jan 12, 2013

#83 Last edited by GhostAvatar, Jan 12, 2013
deaded

Well, dating back to DaoC then - 18 years back? I was playing organised full grp PVP, luckily for Midgard. It was the strongest faction at the time. We knew it was the strongest faction. And we certainly got to hear it from the other factions as well.

I dont think things have changed too much since then. Ppl arent that dumb (and were never that dumb), that they dont recognize differences, strengths and weaknesses in mmo faction properties. Being both pure theoretical spreadsheet numbers or applied thru actual gameplay, ppl will catch up on it.

deaded, Jan 12, 2013

#84
Con411
Baleur said: ↑

“This is a thread that has been in the making in my head since late beta.
I really have no idea how to properly lay this out, so I'll just write down my thoughts in a rather irregular fashion.
I apologize if it sounds like nonsense, it probably will offend a great deal of you, as the majority falls into the category of gamers I will discuss.
If this thread ends up just recieving the same nonsense flame replies that many other threads recieve, I'll simply not read them. It's not worth the trouble. They are just proving my point.
For the rest of you, I invite you to a discussion about this topic, and what, if anything, can be done to gradually change the modern psychology of current generation gamers.

Disclamers:
1. This has nothing to do with player skill.
2. This has nothing to do with player age.
3. This has everything to do with maturity.

I'm only 27, I'm not even an old man or a father. Yet when it comes to this I feel very old, like a relic of a by-gone age.
I belong to the sort-of-first generation of gamers. I did not play Pong or Pacman, but i played all that followed, ever since the Commodore 64 and 8-bit NES.
In "my time", when we played games, as we used to, we played to have fun.
I used to play a whole bunch of different strategy games, rts games and fps games with my friends. We played until we became one with the game, we played so much that we learnt the ins and outs of the games we loved, with not even a single second spent thinking about "game balance".

The words "overpowered" or "underpowered" did not exist in our vocabulary.
We didn't think in the same ways that todays gamers think.
When we failed, when we failed against an opponent in a game we never once thought about what was wrong about the game. We thought about what was wrong with our own playstyle, or our own preformance within that game.
We discussed weapons that we had a hard time using, and figured out situations and ways to properly take advantage of them. We discussed units and factions we had a hard time using, and figured out what we did wrong and what we had to change in order to succeed with them.

We did not consider the games to be faulty, even if they in some cases probably were.
We dealt with what the game provided, and "manned up" to figure out how to handle it.

Today, things have changed.
Today gamers don't do this anymore. Some of the ones that do are called pro-gamers, because it is something rare these days to see a person adapt and become proficent in more than 1 thing. A player that doesn't have a loser mentality and goes on forums to cry, but rather wipes himself off and dives back in to try to better himself and his preformance.

It is strange how this, which was once part of every gamer, is now largely reserved for the pro scene.
Again, what I am discussing has nothing to do about skill. It is about player mentality.

Today, if a gamer does poorly in a game, no matter what genre, he or she (mostly "he", i've noticed female gamers are quite alot more careful about prematurely judging faults within the game compared to males), instantly jumps to a sort of cyber-paranoid delusion that the game and game developers are out to "get him".
That the entire game world is balanced in such a way to make it as hard and unfair as possible for the player in question.

There is no attempt at analyzing the situation. There is no attempt at trying to better himself as a player.
The only thing he resorts to is this delusion that the entire world is unfair, and his unbelievably inhuman skills can not possibly have been at fault.
Every gamer today is a self-entitled professional with flawless tactics and skill, and any shred of evidence to the contrary is objective proof that the game in question is unbalanced against his favor.

Sid Meier talked quite a bit about this very topic, how he even had to change the random number generator for combat in Civilization, because players felt that the computer was "cheating" if they lost a 2:1 odds battle, despite the mathematical possibility of such a loss.
This lead to the inclusion of "cheats" in favor of the player, to feed their self-delusions. The players got a certain number of "free wins", despite the combat odds, each turn. This is but one example of how an increasing loser mentality among gamers can negatively affect the mechanics of a game during development.

It makes me sad to see. And a bit "scared". In the sense that I've seen games I knew and loved be turned into garbage because developers listened too intently to the vocal new generation playerbase, as opposed to sticking with their original vision and quite frankly better more mature judgement.

I'm scared that the same thing will happen to Planetside 2.
Because it has happened to the entire games industry.
Games these days require no thought, and are designed to be as mind-numbingly simplistic as possible to avoid sparking the flame of the new generation of gamers delusions about imbalance and their own imagined self-importance.

Games become homogenized indistinguishable clones of each other, as nobody dares to strive too far off the fine balance to keep players egos satisfied with imaginary achievements (You got TRIPLE KILL!! 300 xp!), while still retaining some shred of varied gameplay at all.

This is not about improvements that could and should be made to games, such as more metagame for Planetside 2.
This is about players ragequitting after 15 minutes, claiming that the game is unbalanced, without learning the ins and outs of the game first. And the risk of such a community negatively affecting the development path the game takes.

Higby, T-Ray, Maggie, Jimmy, and all others..
Please use your best judgement, regarding balance.
We don't need another game where everything are carbon copies of each other, where player skill and self-improvement has lost ground to self-delusions of grandeur.

Discuss.”

I'd like to add that this idea of self entitlement is not limited to gaming. Just look around. Turn on a TV. Read something, oh wait, reading is booooooooooooooring now, only "old" people read. When the current and previous generation of people reach an age that they will no longer be able to contribute as much to society as they used to this world will be in for one hell of a ride.
- x 1
Con411, Jan 12, 2013

#85
FireKetchup

Wish I could like more than once.

FireKetchup, Jan 12, 2013

#86
3rut

Just think, in 500 years it'll be like Idiocracy.

3rut, Jan 12, 2013

#87 Last edited by 3rut, Jan 12, 2013
beastmode619

read below

beastmode619, Jan 12, 2013

#88 Last edited by beastmode619, Jan 12, 2013
beastmode619
ImGladUmad said: ↑

“I understand but is not just these "days".

Here is the Problem with the OP's example.

He is comparing Old school games that weren't played online vs An MMO that sells weapons....Huge difference.

Has nothing to do with today's gamer...It has to do with logic

1.Back then their was no forums(doubt most games had them, doubt most people had internet)

2.Back then Their was less competition....(I mean it was kids playing multiplayer, nothing compared to today)

3. Back then you didn't buy guns with real money.

So what happens now when people buy a ****** gun and see guns that are way too good....Logically they complain and come to the forums.

This would happen in any time Period in history!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here is the thing people like you and OP try to do.

You guys are trying to make it seem as their is nothing in this game that is OP......That is just the problem of today's gamer....Sorry but that isn't that case, their is a lot of problems in this game.

As for games being "dumb down"......how is asking for better balance, being "dumb down".....Hell I think it will make the game harder if their weren't OP weapons (yes their is), Better AA,etc.

So yeah stop saying BS”

Another interesting point made. It IS good to point out that the original poster is comparing to different types of games....
games that Sell virtual items for cash (current gen) VS. games that were a one a one time buy (oldschool gen)

The thing is...The Original Poster isn't MAGNIFYING....only this game :/ Your argument about guns being sold applies to ALL the games that sell in game items for cash.

The OP and myself including others aren't trying to make it seem as if "Nothing in this game is OP"... NO game is perfect... and everybody knows something will always be MORE powerful than another.

The point we are pointing out is that TODAYS gamer assumes things are OVERPOWERED...instead of understanding its strengths and WEAKNESSES.
Like boxing...Mike Tyson is OVERPOWERED if you fight him close. Many of todays gamers would Cry out to NERF mike tyson.

An oldschool gamer..or any critical thinker of ANY ERA...would analyze the situation and understand that his weakness is his RANGE and stamina....and make the proper adjustments to win.

The issue here...that many of us are agreeing with the original poster is that....these new complainers....are altering the way games are being made. Logically...it makes sense in sub to play game that people will cry out about things... we have that right.

BUT. if you really take a hard look at it. you will see that this issue isnt focused on just PLANETSIDE 2. we are looking at gaming as a WHOLE. here are some games dumbed down from the original versions that made the games explode!

games like MARVEL VS CAPCOM 3 (console )..dumbed down...instead of 6 button combos...you just keep pressing one button to chain ur moves -_-

Call of duty DUMBED down (console) - rewards for everything in the book, Recoil thats non existent. and even a reward for DYING lol.

madden 2013 DUMBED DOWN (console) - the default set up to pick your plays is now..called "gameflow"..which is an AUTO PICK of plays -_- also...default set up has your guy set to AUTO SPRINT, CATCH, STRAFE, AND a hold X button for AUTO TACKLE. LOL are we even playing anymore???

battlefield 3 DUMBED DOWN (PC) - The removal is commander is a joke. no more squad orders that can be placed anywhere (like waypoints but with bonus xp) instead you can only highlight OBJECTIVES. no more air strikes. why? it was too confusing for casual players.

diablo 3 PC - no longer has WORLD pvp because player killers will scare off the new players. instead pvp is planned to be in arenas where you KNOW you are fighting instead of randomly in the world...(hooray thats fun -_-).

Crysis PC - went from open world stealth...to linear gameplay. pvp is a clone of COD.

halo OSDT (console) - THE HALO THAT NEARLY SOLD ITS SOUL TO THE DEVIL LOL....sooooo much COD influence in this game that im glad they got back to their OWN roots in halo 4.

Easier games = more fans. people dont like to lose.
Too much thinking = frustrated move on to the next game...loss of money for devs...
many devs are afraid to do something new...which is why people RARELY stray from the current "everybody wins" dumbed down method...

dont believe me? take a look at all the FPS games...so many COD clones...the ones that dont usually flop hard.
- x 1
beastmode619, Jan 12, 2013

#89 Last edited by beastmode619, Jan 12, 2013
Pharadox
The biggest problem in Planetside 2 is all of the trolls. I'll take hackers and bugs any day over listening to people scream and ***** over the coms that the other team is better and "Our guns suck." I love this game and people just need to learn the game instead of asking it to be dumbed down to their level.
- x 3
Pharadox, Jan 12, 2013

#90
beastmode619

Pharadox said: ↑

“The biggest problem in Planetside 2 is all of the trolls. I'll take hackers and bugs any day over listening to people scream and ***** over the coms that the other team is better and "Our guns suck." I love this game and people just need to learn the game instead of asking it to be dumbed down to their level.”

exactly man... im glad you see it because some people just dont get it lol...

beastmode619, Jan 12, 2013

#91
Tasogie
I tend to agree, back in the Tribes 1 days people logged in, an new everyone they saw all time on server, they were friendly(for most part), Clan rival's not withstanding. It was great gameplay.You looked forward to playing everyday because it was good to catch up with people.

Asherons Call 1
Every morning you logged in for same reasons as above, many would sit around the Mage Towers, chatting an swapping stories, or spell ideas, while messing around. Everyone was friendly in chat.

FFXI
Amazing game, you logged in, an once the Japanese lads got to know you, they were so friendly, I would log in an instantly I got invites to the JP power groups because I was a good White mage, an they new I wasnt American. (will explain). You joined the group, greeted everyone formally, then took your place, an had a great days play.Then things turned south, the advent of Consoles in gaming, brought in a generation of gamer that had so far been blocked from ruining games.

Console players.....
The Race wars kicked off, Americans screaming hate at Japanese, an demanding USA nuke japan etc etc etc spewing the most vile hate you have ever seen.So the JP banned all Americans from ever getting access to any Power group. All Americans were kicked out of all JP led linkshells (guilds). SO began the slide of gaming ....

Fast forward to today, you have pandering to the young over an over an over destroying anything good about MMO's.
You have Devs making FPS games with no depth whatsoever, because todays gamers don't like diversity, an don't know how to play a game that doesn't hand them everything on a plate just for logging in.

You have no consequences in gaming anymore (less of an issue in FPS).

You have nothing but hate spam, arrogance, an filth in chats, or els none talks at all, which is almost as bad.

You have ZERO community in gaming today.You no longer have forums where people trade stories, videos game play, or chat about game they all play.
Now its all hate, ranting demands an crying...
None gives a **** about anything, unless its what can "I get" "I want" I demand or els" Hacking destroying games. Devs too afraid to make "Their" game, because it must cater to the lowest common denominator or els it fails an they lose massive investments.

Not to mention the complete removal of players wanting to learn how to play, if someone has something they want, its instantly unfair. They demand an spam forums in hopes of devs giving it to them, while they flatly ignore the benefits of what they have, or the tools to counter act what someone els can do.

Basically Gaming has hit rock bottom.
- x 2
Tasogie, Jan 12, 2013

#92
beastmode619
Tasogie said: ↑

“I tend to agree, back in the Tribes 1 days people logged in, an new everyone they saw all time on server, they were friendly(for most part), Clan rival's not withstanding. It was great gameplay.You looked forward to playing everyday because it was good to catch up with people.

Asherons Call 1
Every morning you logged in for same reasons as above, many would sit around the Mage Towers, chatting an swapping stories, or spell ideas, while messing around. Everyone was friendly in chat.

FFXI
Amazing game, you logged in, an once the Japanese lads got to know you, they were so friendly, I would log in an instantly I got invites to the JP power groups because I was a good White mage, an they new I wasnt American. (will explain). You joined the group, greeted everyone formally, then took your place, an had a great days play.Then things turned south, the advent of Consoles in gaming, brought in a generation of gamer that had so far been blocked from ruining games.

Console players.....
The Race wars kicked off, Americans screaming hate at Japanese, an demanding USA nuke japan etc etc etc spewing the most vile hate you have ever seen.So the JP banned all Americans from ever getting access to any Power group. All Americans were kicked out of all JP led linkshells (guilds). SO began the slide of gaming ....

Fast forward to today, you have pandering to the young over an over an over destroying anything good about MMO's.
You have Devs making FPS games with no depth whatsoever, because todays gamers don't like diversity, an don't know how to play a game that doesn't hand them everything on a plate just for logging in.

You have no consequences in gaming anymore (less of an issue in FPS).

You have nothing but hate spam, arrogance, an filth in chats, or els none talks at all, which is almost as bad.

You have ZERO community in gaming today.You no longer have forums where people trade stories, videos game play, or chat about game they all play.
Now its all hate, ranting demands an crying...
None gives a **** about anything, unless its what can "I get" "I want" I demand or els" Hacking destroying games. Devs too afraid to make "Their" game, because it must cater to the lowest common denominator or els it fails an they lose massive investments.

Not to mention the complete removal of players wanting to learn how to play, if someone has something they want, its instantly unfair. They demand an spam forums in hopes of devs giving it to them, while they flatly ignore the benefits of what they have, or the tools to counter act what someone els can do.

Basically Gaming has hit rock bottom.”

i agree with a lot of what you said and I myself enjoyed the ffxi community (dragoon/warrior here )
but i slightly disagree with there being "ZERO community in gaming today"

it is bad that there are so many hateful people in forums these days...but for a long time we didnt have a name for them.
now they are known as TROLLS lol....and when i see one i usually just ignore it. You can recognize them instantly...and its actually pretty funny as you watch them build arguments upon pillars of Jello HAHAHA....

but dont worry bro. Good people and players are here still. its just that many people all over the world choose to express their true hate behind the safety of a SCREEN NAME.

many of these people are probably trolls, or to afraid to express themselves in real life...and use screen names as an emotional shield..to say what they want when they want without taking responsibility for it. we have freedom of speech but usually people prefer to use it only when nobody knows its them lol

players that can relate ideas, thoughts, and even argue but in a constructive way...that really makes both sides think....are what keep communities alive.... this even applies to the real world if done right
- x 1
beastmode619, Jan 12, 2013

#93 Last edited by beastmode619, Jan 12, 2013
Max_Damage
hating dem new gamers
- x 2
Max_Damage, Jan 12, 2013

#94
beastmode619

Max_Damage said: ↑

“hating dem new gamers”

LOLOLOL....

really though I enjoy the new gamers i remember when i first started gaming....back when beating a game and seeing the end credits made you the coolest kid on the block LOL...

me: itd be like "I BEAT THE GAME"
friend; "waaaaaaaaat you hear the ending credit song??"
me: "yea its sick"
friend: "oh yea hows it go then if you really beat it? -_-" (no youtube at this time so.......we had to HUM it LOL)

XD

beastmode619, Jan 12, 2013

#95 Last edited by beastmode619, Jan 12, 2013
Tasogie
beastmode619 said: ↑

“i agree with a lot of what you said and I myself enjoyed the ffxi community (dragoon/warrior here )
but i slightly disagree with there being "ZERO community in gaming today"

it is bad that there are so many hateful people in forums these days...but for a long time we didnt have a name for them.
now they are known as TROLLS lol....and when i see one i usually just ignore it. You can recognize them instantly...and its actually pretty funny as you watch them build arguments upon pillars of Jello HAHAHA....

but dont worry bro. Good people and players are here still. its just that many people all over the world choose to express their true hate behind the safety of a SCREEN NAME.

many of these people are probably trolls, or to afraid to express themselves in real life...and use screen names as an emotional shield..to say what they want when they want without taking responsibility for it. we have freedom of speech but usually people prefer to use it only when nobody knows its them lol

players that can relate ideas, thoughts, and even argue but in a constructive way...that really makes both sides think....are what keep communities alive.... this even applies to the real world if done right”

Well said mate (Whm/Blm lvl57)
- x 1
Tasogie, Jan 12, 2013

#96
DanMan3395
Mechanought said: ↑

“Hey *******, I was raised by single mother who worked two jobs and attended college full-time to support me and my brother.

She's more of "man" than anyone I've ever met.

You need to pipe the f*ck down with that ****, otherwise we're going to trade addresses and have a good ole fashioned rumble.”

This dumb *** hole is my case and point... WTF kind of m0ron makes this lame response on a forums online? Do you think that's going to happen? How disconnected from reality are you people that its come to some overweight mama's boy threatening to throw down in a forums?

Maybe this is the same old tired "Back in my day" rhetoric but its hard to think otherwise when a huge percent of the fan base that is vocal are like this doofus.

All you people are doing is crying. You're mama isn't here to save you little boys, go play UT and leave the fun games alone.
- x 1
DanMan3395, Jan 12, 2013

#97
Moxin
Nocturnal7x said: ↑

“I think part of the issue is games have become a lot more complex.”

Which games in comparison to what ? Are you guys talking about games before Half Life 1 or what generation of games ?

Both mmofps, Planetside 1 and ww2online/Battleground Europe which were released in 2001/2003 are more demanding and are more complex than Planetside 2.
- x 1
Moxin, Jan 12, 2013

#98 Last edited by Moxin, Jan 12, 2013
sunjo
Fantastic post OP. It perfectly describes what is wrong with games today. This "new" generation of gamers want everything right away and don't want to put in any effort whatsoever to obtain their goal. They want Achievements, they want Medals, they want Killstreaks, they want experience/rewards for doing the most simple of things. It's very sad because I don't think we'll see any new games where the developers force the gamer to put in hours and hours of playtime in order to increase their skill level. And the developers must do all of this without coddling the gamer with any rewards, achievements, medals, etc.

I miss the games like Quake, Unreal Tournament, Counter-Strike beta through 1.6, and any Half-Life 1 engine game (Day of Defeat, Natural Selection, Team Fortress Classic, and more I'm forgetting). I'm more of an FPS game which is why every game I just mentioned is an FPS. I guess the best example RTS wise would be Starcraft 1 and Starcraft Brood War. In any of these games, since there were no medals/achievements/killstreaks/etc, the gratification or reward the player would get would be from gradually increasing their skill level or finding fun or unique glitches or bugs that enhanced their style of gameplay, whether that be through public play only or competitive play. I miss the days when players would continually find new techniques through the years of playing the game. For example, I played competitive Counter-Strike for years. The top CS players adapted their skills and strategies whenever new bugs/glitches were found. Some examples of these new techniques include Right Arm Angles, Shoulder Peaking, Crouch Hopping, Pop Flashing, and Bunny Hopping (when used correctly). I understand not everyone will know what these terms mean but the players that took competitive CS serious should know what every one of these means. In the early days of competitive CS (2002-2005), NOBODY did any of these techniques (except for maybe bunny hopping) because they didn't know they even existed. It took YEARS for players to finally realize what advantages Shoulder Peaking and Right Arm Angles presented. Crouch Hopping didn't blow up until around 2005 or so (I could be a bit off here). I highly doubt the developers intended for any of this stuff to be in the game and that they existed mainly due to kinks and overlooks in the Half-Life engine of the game. I guess I'm just being nostalgic over games on the HL1 engine because they were all so fun and strong competitively.

Players won't be able to discover new techniques and tricks such as the ones I listed above because today's games are being made where there is either barely or no skill ceiling at all. There is only so much a player can do to improve in these games. There are no unrealized/hidden techniques to learn such as the above. I understand it must be extremely difficult for developers to add these types of techniques, especially since the CS developers most likely didn't intentionally put all that stuff in the game.

I realize I'm going off an a tangent and will try to summarize: I miss the games with very high skill ceiling's where the player could grow his skills and abilities over time and this growth would be very noticeable. The players skill would grow to a point where he would very rarely or even never lose to newer players. I feel like the OP is correct in saying that today's gamers would immediately give up and never bother playing a game as hard as the old Quakes or CS's because they would get dominated so often by better players and not get any instant gratification or satisfaction rewards (like Medals/Achievements/Killstreaks). They want to be a Great Player on day one instead of working to become a Great Player.
- x 2
sunjo, Jan 12, 2013

#99
Nocturnal7x

Moxin said: ↑

“Which games in comparison to what ? Are you guys talking about games before Half Life 1 or what generation of games ?

Both mmofps, Planetside 1 and ww2online/Battleground Europe which were released in 2001/2003 are more demanding and are more complex than Planetside 2.”

compared to nes. Thats what the OP referenced anyway. And people definitely complained about balance in PS1, it was not balanced on day one.

Nocturnal7x, Jan 12, 2013

#100

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