Metagame, it's not problem

Something's been irking me, and it's the term meta-game being thrown around.

"Metagaming is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game. Another definition refers to the game universe outside of the game itself."

"An example of this would be in StarCraft where a player's previous matches with the same opponent have given them insight into that player's playstyle and may cause them to make certain decisions which would otherwise seem inferior. Another example would be in the multiplayer online battle arena genre or Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne, where the metagame refers to the current playstyle and hero choices being favored by high level teams in recent competitive play"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming#Computer_games

Planetside 2 has PLENTY of meta-game:

If you see an armor column roll up, you can position heavy assaults on a ridge and shoot rockets down.

You can swarm a vehicle bay with 20 sunderers to block the actual AMS sunderer.

My outfit(Azure Twilight) uses galaxies to hotdrop maxes behind armor columns.

Using the hot-drop function in large-scale(steel rain) to bring all your troops into battle quickly.

All of these are meta-game aspects. You are finding strategies to counter what you think your opponents are going to do. You are manipulating game mechanics in such a way that it benefits your team.

Planetside 2 isn't lacking meta-game.

Why make this post?
I just hope that, when we talk about meta-game, everyone is talking about the same thing.

Bro, when people talk of 'meta-game', people speak of a long-term, worthwhile, satisfying, and lasting effect that any one faction can have. With the emphasis on long-term and worthwhile.

I agree. Indeed, PS2 has a great deal more metagame than games like BF2/1942 etc. PS2 is just BF1942 multiplied by 1000. It's the best game since the original BF series.

Sure, I think the game could benefit from an advanced tactical menu and the ability to lock continents etc but I don't think it is something we urgently need.

I played BF games for years with no meta game. The metagame, as you say, comes from the sandbox - in facing the enemy in any way you can imagine. No two encounters in PS2 are the same. Everything is always different and the tactics, skill needed is the challenge.

@op,your right

How did BF1942/BF2 have this? And yet we played those games for 5 + years. PS2 is basically a massive scale BF (but better, imo). It doesn't actually need anything more complex (though it would be nice).

Never played BF1942/BF2, sorry.

Yes...PlanetSide 2 has a magnificent and vast Metagame. It consists of whining on the forums and talking trash to other outfits on your server.

Actually no...you're an idiot, no metagame and they have acknowledged it as a problem and are currently working to put one in.

I know that's what people think of, but that is not a meta-game. That is more or less a goal and/or progression.

Achievements and Gear(in RPG's) is similar to that, but they are not meta-game. Those are goal-oriented features.

There are many ways to accomplish those goals above, but the meta-game isn't part of it.

BF2 had a neat commander and squad system though.


I'd say, define the metagame as gameplay with players.
Take the game, remove all the players, and you have the Core. What players do with it is the metagame.


People are frustrated because the "Core" is just not that developed.
Not that you should be hand held, but other than busting the enemy zerg there is barely any way to impact the battlefield.

It's stuff like the Jungle in DotA/LoL that can define a metagame; at first it just pointless because it's disconnected of the main goal (pushing stuff), but developers know the players WILL use it. Hope this proves you can add a layer of depth to reinforce a metagame intentionally.

And how meaningful and intelligent of a response do you expect from me when talking like that?

Also OP

There is currently NO WAY WHATSOEVER TO MANAGE AN OUTFIT INGAME

YOU CAN NOT EVEN FILTER ALPHABETICALLY FFS.

SO NO!!

THERE IS NO META GAME IN ANYWAY WHATSOEVER.

I have largely given up on the forums. I find that it has helped me enjoy my planetside experience far more. You will find nothing of value here. Your vocabulary will be argued whether you define it or not. Both of you will eventually found to be wrong. To post here about the community is a pointless, pointless endeavor.

When people talk Meta-Game they don't mean rock paper scissors tactics, they mean the thing that gives this conflict and doing well for you faction in the conflict (not just well for yourself and your personal cert gain) a point. Locking continents, holding important land etc... at the moment there is very little incentive to take a continent beyond bragging rights and very little incentive to try and defend if you don't have a very good chance of being successful.

But you get what most people mean by 'meta-game' vs. your definition of 'meta-game'?

I havent posted since the end of beta. I decided to stick my head out and make this post just recently. Also, servers are down still? (checking right now)

Not my own personal definition.
If Sc2 fans think of meta-game as gameplay and strategy, and Planetside 2 fans think of meta-game as long-term goals and achievements(like rank/stats/portraits)... well you see where im going with this right?

Difference of opinion. It's a big world. See where I'm going with this right?

That's the thing. Meta-gaming isn't something that the developers do, it's something the players do.

I see AT rolling, I expect armor, I respond. Metagaming.
I see TE rolling, I expect infantry, I respond. Metagaming.
I see an engineer rushing at my sundy and have learned that players have a tendency to act in this way because they've learned, from other players, that spamming mines on a sundy will kill it for fat xp. I put a mineguard on because I expect players to behave in a certain way. Metagaming.

From the Greek Meta, meaning many things including "beyond". Metagaming is the game you play beyond the game itself. EVE's forums are an amazing example of a powerful metagame. There are players who have accounts, never log in and have more impact on the universe than most ever will simply by their power in external situations. The same applies here. We learn about our opposition. We learn about our friends. We play the game beyond the game.

Basically, people misuse "metagame" all crazy and say it when they want something entirely different.

edit: Another great example of the PS2 metagame is how the NC have convinced themselves that they're totally gimped. PR, word of mouth and misinformation that don't reflect reality are having an impact in game. Just like the VS in PS1, even after years of buffs.

I can't stand the guy but if you'd like a good discussion in metagaming, refer to Sirlin's Yomi Layer 3 article: http://www.sirlin.net/articles/yomi-layer-3-knowing-the-mind-of-the-opponent.html

People are misusing the term. While this can cause the meaning of a word to change over time, in the short term, it just lets you know who is ignorant. The same holds true for pronunciations of words; listen for people who pronounce ''cache'' incorrectly if you want a shortcut to know if they're an imbecile or ''niche'' if you want to know if they're a dbag (to be fair, this only works if the speaker is American, because folks in other countries may legitimately have other pronunciations for said words).

Right, PlanetSide 2 and its ''metagame'' . . .

Obviously they're talking about gameplay beyond the short-term and short-distance combat we have now; a reason for the combat so that exp/certs can stop being the only driving force (besides fun). In PlanetSide 1, base benefits, cave links and modules, and continent benefits affected combat in a meaningful way and gave you a reason to put in massive effort to take base X or continent Y. That depth is simply lacking in PlanetSide 2 at the moment.

Humorously, PlanetSide 2 does have a metagame, and it has gone something like:
1) Warpgate Lib Flipping
2) Rocketpod Spamming
3) Zephyrs
In other words, it quickly became flavor-of-the-month identification and abuse (and ways to deal with it, in theory). Tank HE rounds probably fit in there somewhere too.

exLupo went with the chess metagame meaning, which are all spot on as well.

Even if people aren't using the right words, the heart of the message remains.