So it required an extra shell from each arm beyond what you get with uncerted hacksaws? Balancing a weapon that requires 1000 certs to achieve what you suggest is not fair balance. I've also tried the Hacksaw in VR against uncerted MAX. The very odd occasion you could down a zero cert MAX without a reload with Hacksaw at point blank. It needs a long reload which, IIRC, is 4 seconds. That means death to a hacksaw MAX. I've been killed by more VS MAX since the NC MAX rebalance than I have all the time prior to that, what's more remarkable about that is I rarely play AI NC MAX now. More because I fell back in love with the HA and our platoon has more certed AA MAX to fill the gap I left. Because I haven't adjusted to MAX v MAX combat since the adjustment, I was engaging them at ranges I would normally expect them to panic and flee or die. Instead, I died.
To be brutally honest, a MAX with dual Mercies is just as powerful as a MAX with Hacksaws. The only difference is that the Hacksaw MAX will kill you very quickly at close range, and the Mercy MAX will kill you slightly slower, but at longer range. Take your pick, but the end result is the exact same.
Interesting. So basically you're saying that the NC AI MAX shotgun weapons should NEVER (at any range) out-DPS the TR or VS weapons - I can't disagree more strongly as that is the most unbalanced thing I've ever heard.
Nope, that's not what I'm saying and it's obvious. How childishly dishonest of you to pretend to speak for me in order to misrepresent my view. Yeah, which means Goretzu's post is mere disinfo, or wrong at best. And that's what I posted to expose in the first place. Wrong; it costs 500 to cert 1 gun. And wrong; you need the game to be balanced uncerted and fully certed. That's not relevant to any point I'm trying to make. But I appreciate that the nerf had the effect of a nerf.
That is exactly what you said, whether you realise it or not. You don't think NC should ever out-DPS TR or VS MAXs at any range, yet you think that TR/VS MAX out-DPSing NC AI MAX at every range would be fine. I disagree, NC AI MAX have to out-DPS TR and VS AI MAXs at 0-5m as things stand, otherwise they may as well give them feather dusters instead of AI weapon arms.
OK, I didn't say anything of the sort, but I take it that this is exactly what you understood me to mean. Sadly I don't know how to fix your misunderstanding for you. So what now? You're going to pretend I mean what you wrongly think I mean?
One issue I see there is that if the TR and VS were truly comparable with NC capability at close range, then they'd have a really low TTK on targets that would still work for CQC. I think buffing resistance to small arms fire would make them tougher for inf to defeat, but I don't think they really need that. Maybe buffing resistance vs MAX weapons would have made sense gameplay-wise, but it's also illogical and unintuitive and might make the game seem even sillier. Good points though. Nice post
I agree that making all MAX exactly the same is the solution, but they can't just nerf NC AI MAX to doing 0 DPS if they (SoE) don't do that.
It's your own idea you're agreeing with, not mine. In fact I think that idea of yours is dumb, and that's what annoys me most about your misunderstanding my position to the extent that you think I could also hold such a dumb idea. And your alternative, to give the NC MAX 0 dps, is so amazingly dumb that I wonder why I am replying at all.... What good can I possibly do?
So you don't want all MAXs to be the same. And you don't want NC MAX to ever out-DPS TR or VS MAXs at any range. Sorry, but I just can't see what you DO want at all then. (other than TR/VS MAX just to always be better than NC MAX - which I cannot agree with)
Correct! /facepalm At least by now I think you genuinely don't see it, rather than that you're being deliberately obtuse to waste my time.
If you don't want all AI MAXs to be the same. And you don't want NC AI MAX to ever out-DPS TR/VS MAXs at any range. There simply isn't anything left you do want. There's no way AI MAXs can be different (Shotgun vs LMG) and have exactly the same DPS at all ranges - this was never the case with PS1 even with the ScatMAX choked modes, and a much longer TTK, it still had the edge in closer range DPS.
It's like you think the only way that MAXes can be different is if one has an LMG and the other has a shotgun. I really don't know what to do about it. Maybe I should suggest you look at the weapon stats spreadsheet and notice all the variables that can allow weapons of the same type to vary? The point being that Shotgun1 is not the same as Shotgun2 if it is different. They are both shotguns, but they can be quite different. I wish I could point at the infantry weapons and say "Hey look, they are shotguns but they are different!" but in many cases SOE has failed to use the potential of the game engine to actually add in those differences. I'd love to mod it, but I appreciate that this F2P business model is partially about killing modding, and that it's impractical to split this community by offering choice. Ho hum. That statement of yours has nothing to do with me. I'm perfectly happy for stuff to out dps other stuff in specific situations, or even all of the time - if it makes sense with regards the greater context - but the degree to which it's the case with the NC max compared to others is what I call 'broken'. Especially when it's about the most useful base-taking tool as a result. As an NC max you can run around with nanorepair and hardly ever take any damage because the guy shooting you is dead so fast. You only have to be in the right place. Not so for TR and VS who of course can't even do the same thing at range (or the game would be even more broken, as I've said already). - Maybe someone would like to criticise me for caring about 'soloing' with regards the balance? Go ahead and try. The fact is the game needs to seem balanced whether it's prime-time or not, and whether you're in a squad or not. I had a funny moment where I instant actioned the crown in my MAX. I had full health when I met Soloviev (vgood NC MAX player on Woodman) at extremely low health, but at close range, and we both killed each other instantly. Much to the amusement of the VS who were holding the Crown at the time, I'm sure. But the point is that his MAX is suited to something very valuable. And it means the other MAX's are UP. But we don't see compensation for this elsewhere. It's not like our tanks, or anything else, are better than theirs to make up for it, in fact it's more like the opposite (MBT, ESRL, ESF, LMG, Carbine, SMG, etc.). So yes I want each faction to have it's shotguns and LMGs but I don't want them to be the same shotguns and LMGs. And no I don't have a problem with gameplay designed to advantage different factions at different ranges - It's a question of degree and context.
Ok.......so you want all AI MAX to have exactly the same weapon type? Right? But you want each factions same weapon type to somehow be completely different? (unlike the VS and TR ones are now) Given that TR and VS AI weapons are pretty much the same, how would NC ones be "different"? Or the TR and VS ones for that matter? Because when you look at the current infantry shotguns in the game, basically all "different" really means is better or worse at their job......... which is exactly why almost no one uses say the JH.
Bad choice of words there but yep, in essence. I am patiently waiting for the other MAXes to get close range options that aren't rendered utterly UP by the NC, and for the NC to get some nice MGs, so they aren't relegated to base defense and assault anymore (extremely valuable though that is). I covered your other points in my previous post. (sorry for the late edit)
There should be a difference in the weapons (stats) between the Empires. Just like there is with the other classes. In the end I think it comes down to preference and to statistically the better class in comparison to the other Empires.
I agree that we didn't need such a heavy damage nerf, but we can't QQ at the NC Hacksaw MAX. It's not that effective anymore. Granted, it still instagibs, but MAX v. MAX you still have some time to die before the NC MAX kills you
This IS just making all MAXs the same though. They just give VS and TR shotguns (like infantry-balance) and give NC MAXs LMG (again like infantry-balance). And they'll all be the same (like the TR and VS MAXs are now).
