Medics should not have access to C4.

Discussion in 'Combat Medic' started by MaxDamage, Mar 8, 2016.

  1. MaxDamage

    They have a wide variety of primary and secondary weapons.
    They can heal themselves, others, revive.

    HAs are built for anti vehicle/MAX.
    Engis are built for anti vehicle/MAX.
    LAs are built for anti vehicle/MAX
    Medics are for anti vehicle/MAX?!


    Remove C4 from Medics. It is a class for supporting other classes, not for anti vehicle.

    Case and point, the other day a medic dropped a C4 on his MAX and me and just revived the MAX because he could. THAT IS WAY TOO MUCH GODDAMN POWER.
    • Up x 3
  2. DarkStarII

    Medic is a support class so they aren't allowed C4? By that logic Engineers shouldn't get C4 either. :confused:
    You don't have much of an argument here. I say they can keep it.
    • Up x 5
  3. Eternaloptimist

    It kind of depends on how you interpret the word 'combat' in combat medic. Personally I play it as a fighting class with healing skills as a bonus but this is not everbody's view. But even then I haven't found any real use for C4 when playing Medic and I can agree that having demo charges is a bit weird for a Medic. I'd rather have AI mines, but then I like mines (Engineer is my preferred class). You could at least justify laying out a couple of anti infantry traps as a way of covering yourself while going about your business of healing etc.
    • Up x 1
  4. FeralBoy

    In a convoluted way of replying I will point out that-

    1) the only class currently without access to C4/AntiVehicle capabilities is the Infiltrator... (thank you for helping further the logic that Infiltrators should also have access to C4 or some other such AV derivative.)

    2) if I use your provided case in point as to why C4 should be removed from medics we should also remove any tool or weapon from any (all) classes that can use them malevolently to kill teammates. That cowardly medic could have just as easily killed you, at least, with something else... This is a crappy player/ bad teammate issue, applicable across all classes. This is by no means a medic or C4 specific issue. (But with their revive capabilities I can understand your reasoning specific to the incident you related.)

    3) what confuses me the most is that you (not unlike some other forum-goers, who consistently bring up [nerf this/ change that/ remove this/ add that] threads) haven't laid out a cogent, solid foundation presenting facts, theories, or your ideas as to why something needs addressed BEFORE you ask/demand for change.... which is then invariably followed up by a 'this guy killed me with that thing I don't like' statement.

    As for me it's virtually impossible to take anyone seriously that doesn't try to sell me their idea before they ask to me buy it.
    • Up x 1
  5. MaxDamage

    That's a hell of a jump.
    Light Assault: Aerial sabotage. I don't like LAs with C4, they're actually a kind of cancer of the game, but given their other limitations it can be excused.
    Heavy Assault: Anti Vehicle.
    Engineer: Vehicle assist/Combat uility class (repair/destroy).
    Medic: Infantry support/Medical utility class. NOT ANTI VEHICLE. There is no excuse whatsoever for including AV in a medics arsenal..

    Team mate killing was not even an issue being argued. Rather that there was no consequence for it, the power of instant murder was matched by the power of revive!

    That's a lovely little well practiced paragraph there, however your strawman looks nothing like me.

    The problem was laid out, and the solution was presented.

    If you need a 20 page document with hand drawn pictures explaining just why a medic having C4 is ridiculous, then you must be incredibly slow.
  6. Deffington

    Here we go, remove LMGs...

    Some people simply push it too much, seeing LA just as a C4 fairy, Engi just as a driver, Medic just as a healer and making HA and Infils main battle class. I'm sick of seeing only last two mentioned classes in game. Removing C4 from Medic would make that class even less used than it is now. I mean, why would anyone play support if he can be invisible, or can target anything with launcher?
  7. FeralBoy

    It seems only you perceive it as a problem. And nothing was well laid out except that 2 people got teamkilled and you were the one who didn't get a rez...
    The consequence which you incorrectly claim isn't there is already ingame and is the same for all classes regardless of how instant or slow the teamkill was...
    Although I do feel that weapons lock is barely a slap on the wrist and of no serious consequence to the people who intentionally and consistently TK fellow players.

    Now you seem to be getting overly dramatic. Once again you seem to be the only one here who perceives it to be a problem, let alone a 'ridiculous' one...

    This one I just included because it is hilarious.
  8. Eternaloptimist

    I kind of like the logic that access to C4 only fits with classes that have a clear assault or AV role (HA, LA, Engineer).
  9. Ragnarox

    Medics need to have 15% dmg reduction while using heal ability.
  10. Eternaloptimist

    Make my rezz grenade sticky so I can place them more reliably where they will do the most good, let me drop dressing packs and let me carry AI mines to cover my back instead of C4....then I'll play more Medic.

    Yeah, yeah, I know this would be turning the Medic into a Carebear version of the Engineer without the mana turrets. But that's because Engie is my favourite class, so this is a purely personal review of what would get my interest.

    Lets face it, most people probably want to do the shooty, blammy stuff. The AR gives Medic some attraction as a fighting class but doing mostly healing and rezzing (whilst great for cert gain) doesn't satisfy that need. C4 gives the blammo but you have to stand there with the detonator in your hand until the time is right. I think some mines or booby traps would help strengthen the 'Combat' bit of the Combat Medic role.
    • Up x 1
  11. Littleman

    The combat medic is already the worst option for AV. While the infil can't engage armor, they can minimize their presence with the press of a button. The Medic's AV option? Running up to a tank and plopping down C4...

    Anyone killed by a medic with C4 is bad and should feel bad.

    That said, delete the LA, slap the jetpack onto the combat medic, and then we can maybe talk removing C4 from their list of options. Or DGC could give them a bonafide grenade launcher/rocklet rifle as a tool or even pistol slot item. I prefer removing LA and giving the jetpack to the Medic. It would make both otherwise questionably "good" classes overall better and more fun.
  12. CrimsonEpsilon

    Medics need a buff because they are the lowest played class in the game. If anything they need more utility to make it more fun to use for the masses of players. Removing C-4 would hinder this, it isn't the right thing to do.
  13. Scr1nRusher

    C4 is a design & balance flaw with the class.

    Also Its not that medics are the least played, its that they are strong enough that you only need a few good ones at a time.
    • Up x 1
  14. Tormentos

    A normal day in the field hospital...
    Nurse: Scalpel.
    M: Swab!
    N: Swab.
    M: 10 units of healing nanites!
    N: Here.
    M: Two blocks of C4!
    N: Doctor...?
    M: Two blocks of C4!!!
    N: But...
    M: Damn it, woman! Do you want him to bleed to death?!?
    • Up x 2
  15. Deffington

    Sometimes you just need anesthetics... For maxes... Or vehicles...
    • Up x 1
  16. BadCoding

    The medic should get rid of C4 and focus on his core job to keep people alive and healed. Taking C4 away instantly justifies a buff and hopefully a makeover of the class.

    The only thing a medic's ever good in is reviving and sometimes that's far too good for the game as it turns into an endless rezz spam.

    What the medic doesn't have but needs is means to keep people alive. The shield bubble doesn't do ****, not only because it's stationary but also because it takes forever compared to incoming damage.

    It's also wrong to force a choice between either an area healing ability or that shield beacon as each only serves one of the two bars of an infantry class that form the total amount of hit points.

    Both should always be present on the medic class for that exact reason.
    Also some changes should be made:

    A shield beacon should instantly start the shield regeneration for anyone inside at an accelerated tempo, depending on upgrade value. Remember: Standing still means death. So make it possible to move through there and receive and instant, faster than usual recharge.

    The area heal should reduce the area damage (lasher, explosives, ESF area damage guns etc.) received by affected infantry. That would justify how weak that effect is compared to the incoming area damage at all times. Also this shouldn't be able to heal the medic himself anymore to further balance the class. A medic shouldn't be able to heal himself while attacking others but still be able to use his healing tool on himself to heal himself (using alternate firemode). This still allows selfheal but not while attacking.

    The healing tool:
    The healing tool should be capable of recharging shields but only once a peron's health pool is at 100% and only at half the speed from there on compared to the healing. The healing always takes longer than reviving which is bad design. There could be chips to insert in this tool to gain a unique effect, depending on the installed chip:
    -Healing rate: [rank -> 1.2/1.4/1.6/1.8/2.0]x healing and shield recharge rate
    -Area healing: [rank -> 3/6/9/12/15]m around the main target for [rank -> 10/20/30/40/50]% the healing and shield recharge amount
    -Heal shield: The medic receives a shield which reduces explosive damage by [rank -> 6/12/18/24/30]% and bullet damage by [4/8/12/16/20]% but only while healing others; Headshots excluded; Stacks with personal armor; also works on the affected target but has to charge up on it for 5s to gain it's full effect while it's instantly up on the medic

    As mentioned area healing and shield bubble should be baseline for every medic without having to make a choice as each only serves one of two infantry bars.

    So to fill that now empty space:
    Drugs / Stimulants:
    -injection for infantry that increases run speed by [rank -> 4/8/12/16/20]% and reduces time to aim / stop running and start aiming by [10/20/30/40/50]% while also slightly reducing damage by 1/2/3/4/5% for it's duration of [rank -> 8/12/16/20/24]s; stacks with armor; maybe add a downside after the duration; doesn't stack; lower rank medics can reset a high rank injection to full duration instead of replacing it with their low rank

    Damping field:
    -area field that dampens all area damage for everyone inside by [rank -> 15/30/45/60/75]%; The beacon is immune to area damage and requires direct hits to be destroyed; effect doesn't stack with personal armor or other damping fields

    Jammer nanites:
    -field effect that only affects own faction
    -infantry inside can't be reported as spotted by enemies anymore; also works for [rank -> 3/6/9/12/15s] after leaving the field; infantry entering will instantly lose it's "has been spotted" status; can counter sensor darts, motion spotter and infantry radars; does not alter vision towards infantry inside, they're normally visible, just Q-spotting doesn't work on them; further jammer nanite fields reset the effect upon entering one

    Kinetic converter:
    -drops a tool on the ground, creating a field, that restores anyone's health and shields inside by a portion of the damage someone inside the field receives; only heals and recharges those inside who benefit, not wasting potential; heals and recharges for [rank -> 8/16/24/32/40]% of the damage received by anyone inside the field, evenly distributed to everyone inside who needs health and shields; only recharges shields after healing is done; healing rate may or may not depend on rank; a unit inside overlapping fields transfer the same amount to each converter: damage received divided by fields the unit is inside

    One item for fast rushes, one item to somewhat counter explosive spamming, one item to promote presence, one item of the "Hold the line !" type. Maybe add some nanite cost here or there.

    Still not happy with the guns to which the medic has unique access but can hardly use due to his class concept.
    Maybe give light assault access to those too to be able to cert them more easily and less contrary to class concept ?

    And now for realism mode:
    The medic stays a rezz spammer with C4 that can't prove useful, whenever the enemy...
    -spams tanks
    -spams aircraft
    -camps the barracks
    -has snipers and maxes in the hills
    -outnumbers the team

    ...and will contribute in losing bases due to people picking medic and rushing to the capture point instead of going for the enemy spawn(ers).
  17. Moz

    Oh today is medics shouldn't get C4 day.... Last time i was here it was Light Assault shouldn't have access to C4 day.

    I know..... lets just remove C4 so the no brain tankers and MAX units can not get owned!? So every man and his dog can keep his force multiplier without any chance of getting killed if he overextends...... That would be great fun.....

    OH OH also, lets remove rocket launchers, tank mines and any other explosive....

    PFFFT Please!
  18. repairtool6 the game stands medic (with and without c4) is currently the most balanced class in the entire game. Considering the issues with other classes i would go so far as calling the combat medic a triumph :)

    Don't take away the C4
  19. LaSouris

    The heavies are out of rockets... All the tank mines have been detonated... The MAXes are still coming, all hope is lost...

    But what is this? A brave medic has taken a combat role and is coming along to save the day, oh lo and behold, rather than having to revive everyone, he has stopped everyone from dying.

    Seriously though, I do understand your logic, but then what would the medic have in the utility slot? Because short of adding new things (Which won't happen for a very long time), there is nothing else to go there. I like a medic having C4, and yes, I am biased because I play medic a lot, but it gives me a lot more viability in combat and allows me to adapt
    • Up x 1
  20. XsolarflareX

    I've often wondered why not simply change the mechanics of c4 on the medic.? instead of anti tank, or explosives, use it as an aoe heal. keep the blast, keep the deployment, hell, even keep the look. Just change what it does. The explosion could be a large, aoe heal, similar to a healing grenade. increase the cost per stick and limit the amount carried, so it can't be abused and there you go. Another interesting utility for a class that should be first and foremost about healing and helping team mates.