Hi PS2 community, i'll start by saying while I do feel some balance issues between the 3 faction MBTs is present its mostly because of the their special ability. I've heard people suggest something similar to this before such as Wrel but I really hope they are not only tweaked or changed in some way but inherently part of the tank. They are supposed to be the most "fun" abilities and make things such as fire suppression or IR smoke not an option. I'll also state there may be some bias a I primarily play as my favorite faction VS with most experience using a Magrider, I have tried the other 2 tanks however. If i had to rank the abilities right off the gate vangaurd shield wins by a long mile, magburner comes in second being situationally useful but odd to use and terran anchored mode as really unfitting / clunky for the tank.. If they are naturally applied to all the tanks during the tank update the changes would still help. Here's a quick summary of my thoughts on each. Prowler: While i like having an anchor mode I would highly prefer this be moved to another vehicle such as the flail for semi indirect fire artillery, it just doesn't fit the speed demon prowler tank that relies on top speed and rate of fire to excel. This mode encourages zerging and building camping also is it helps camp spawn rooms and requires protection to not be murdered right away. This is a tough call, maybe prowlers deserve a nitro boost more than the magrider needs a boost emphasizing speed of the empire. Really anything other than anchor down for the prowler would be good. Another alternative would be a cool down mini missile launch or bonus projectile, more lead in the air is the terran motto right? This would make it more like a Mammoth/Apocalypse tank and please separate the cannons graphically having one on each side even if they shoot and roughly the same arc currently. Magrider: While the tank isn't up to snuff from its glory days, the lower stats of the tank are fine but it needs more utility that the Vanu empire emphasize. Magburner should work going backwards, or strafing as the magrider needs to really show off its dodging capabilities. Additionally maps need more water and other odd obstacles to really give the magrider its previous advantage form planetside 1, its the tank you take knowing you can traverse whatever landscape you need, I'd also consider narrowing the tank slightly width wise also for maneuverability and to fit into more places, but keep the tank length the same. If the prowler is more fitting for a nitro boost, an alternate idea would be a tank jump or hop that would fit the magrider much like the old vanu max and this also really emphasizes maneuverability and utility (obviously a slight boost jump, not a flying tank). Has the classic magrider look and its pretty sweet. Vangaurd: Not quite the master race of tanks but the shield ability begs to differ. The shield is just way to versatile and strong for the charge with power tank and its heavy armor. I'm aware they are nerfing the shield, while I'd like them to nerf the shield stats i hope they decide to make the shield only cover the front part of the tank like the max shield with roughly the same armor, this also encourages flanking and smart play but allows vanguards to either face danger to block or not charge in without a care. I mean really i'd like to also see a slight tweak to vangaurd speed by lowering it a few KMPH but other than that the tank isn't as broken as people tend to believe it is. Looks cool as hell too.
I do not agree with most things you suggest, some are interesting, some are flat out bad but there is some good in everything. Here a few things you should keep in mind about the things that actually are balanced right now, namely ... AP+AV Weapons(only exception is FPC+Halberd, FPC+Saron is balanced) Ability of movement(A slight Magrider topspeed buff is the only thing need there) However the things that are not balanced are ... ES Abilities HEAT Guns HE Guns AI capability Gunner usage(Prowlers is the biggest offender here) 1/2 balance As an example, your suggestions on the Vanguard for the shield ... I would be ok with that if the AI capability of the Tank overall would be improved. Another thing to keep in mind is choice balance, ES abilities across the board are so strong that FS or Smoke get's rarely used and only if you do not like the respective forced playstyle coming from some of them(Anchor Down). Choices within one slot should be equally viable, which they aren't right now ... which is probably the main reason behind the upcoming ES ability changes. Not because there are so many Vanguard OP threads ... but because everybody uses it. Similar things go for Anchor and to a little degree to Magburner ...
ES abilities should be the best ability across the board IMO It adds diversity and new roles for each tank and different strategies to use to take the other out. NS abilities would be boring and make the tank game slow. ES abilities should be miles higher than NS. I do however think a slight buff to some of the NS abilities for MBT would be ok. Just a SMALL buff. Also they should buff ES max abilities so they are chooses over charge. ES abilities adds more strategies and tactics. Weaknesses and strengths. ES gear should be superior NS gear should be situational (Aside from weapons) ^ My opinion
The prime example of your idea is the Vanguard Shield ... look how diverse Vanguard Utility slots are ... nothing or Shield, but never any FS or IR Smoke. It does the exact opposite of what you say. If all options are similar viable, people will pick and choose based on their preferred playstyle. I can understand that ES abilities should be the more unique/interesting ones in terms of their mechanics but not because of their power. This of course is my opinion on it.
Well, I'd say the Magburner is the only ability that really fits the bill as of this moment. Either you pick the reliable heal(FS), the anti-lock-on(which I think could use a buff, like a short stealth even while firing), or the hyperactivity(burner). While smoke leaves a few things to be desired, burner and FS are rather equal, one being reliable, one being a bit more fun. Edit: OP, omni-burner is a bad idea. I can outline why, later. If you want.
Honestly I wouldn't mind for VS having an Overcharge ability where the next shot from the primary gun is double damage but draints the mag and makes it stationary for up to 3 seconds (certs to eventually reduce it to 2.5 seconds) as a secondary option compared to magburner. Currently Mag burn is so hampered by the changes and the reduced thrust it gives that it isn't really effective.
The problem boils down to the fact that NS abilities are simply utility, but the ES availabilities are directly combat oriented. In any situation that offers it, combat oriented abilities will get picked over utility. As far as balance and choice goes, vehicle loadouts force selective choices and are rarely designed to synergize with the other slots.... so naturally we pick the ones that are most directly useful. The only time this every became a difficult choice is when Annihilators (and later strikers) got out of hand, making the only counter, IR Smoke, a no brainer. To a lesser extent, we have the exact same problem on Infantry suit slots, as the overall design forces an exclusive choice, and doesn't synergize with other selections aside from old Nanoweave (which had overly broad utility). The entire system needs a revamp, choices and function reevaluated, and promote mixing slots for different purposes. The ES abilities on tanks should be made standard issue, and the remaining choices rebalanced around that idea. Also building up the concept of soft counters instead of hard counters would encourage people to explore more..... as of now, ESFs need flares, a Tank's best option is the ES ability (TR still use it extensively despite complaints), and Sudnerers are only NOW trying things since AMS became a passive option.
Uh, no, they are all -per definition- utility abilities. And are you honestly saying that a heal does nothing to combat/isn't combat oriented? As this is a war-game, everything eventually has to do with fighting. And if you think there's no synergy between the different utilities and other things you can use, I'd recommend that you give them all a second look. Actually, besides for the NC, the ES MBT utility isn't a no-brainer. Far from it. Ps: While AMS was the norm, there were situations that made the use of the other options work just as well. Granted, they'd still be a minority, but if you never saw non-AMS sunderers, you can't have been looking close enough. For example, Gate-shield Diffusers. They were massive game-changers when used right. And they were.
Yea, I would run a battle sundy quite often. Fire suppression, Composite armor and dual basilisks. I was happy when they made AMS stock... as it allows me to run this loadout and still be able to grab gear when needed, but this was a perfectly good combo to run with before. The gate diffuser Sundies were pretty marginal... until the squad spawn option made much more viable. Then you also have the Armor column support vehicles.... Repair/NAR and Rearm/NAR works well with both fire surpression, proxy radar and smoke in order to keep those vehicle alive longer to allow the tanks around them to protect them. As the only efficient way to kill one of these vehicle lines is to take out the "medic and engy" of the group. Granted, these were mostly options used by the vehicle focused outfits rather than random & lonewolf players.
Did you never get to see the 1-2 platoons busting into an Amp with GSDs? I did, and it is a brutal thing. This was before the spawn change. You're not going to have an easy time usurping ~6 squads of coordinated people from the interior of the old amps, when your garage shields are still up.
Just a random, perhaps stupid, thought I had - Why doesn't the prowler's special ability make its rate of fire etc increase based on a % of its current speed - then instead of locking down to get a boost, the faster it goes, the faster it fires
Besides the surface problem how how this would make Racer have -another- advantage over rival, not to mention that this would only really be worthwhile for the good players. Only those are able to fire on the move and actually hit stuff in a reliable sense.
Its a very simple formula. Combat oriented abilities are classified as A. Preventing damage, B. Mitigating Damage, or C. Directly or Directly boosting damage potential. The specific one chosen is usually based on the biggest threat at the time..... Flares and IR Smoke fall into this category because they directly prevent Lock-ons. Fire Suppression doesn't, because it can't definitively make a difference in fight. Much like Auto-repair, it doesn't outright save you, it just makes recovery more convenient (this status could change if the HoT of FS was faster, and repaired more in total). I've looked at all the combinations, and can tell you the reason why they would heavily favor particular utility over a combat item..... because the combat one is targeted toward a threat that isn't actually a threat. ESFs almost never take Flak because they can out run it, Gals don't bother because they can Tank it, Libs can tank enough to get clear despite their speed. Tanks never take Top armor because the angle it protects from is not the angle an ESF could threaten them on. It could help against Libs, but the damage output is so high and the exposure window so long, you wouldn't be able to make cover or retaliate fast enough any way.... juking the shots are your only effective defense. Harassers used to take Composite, but post-nerf the protection is so poor, its universally better to use speed to shorten your exposure time and use Auto-repair to fix yourself on the go. In short, the only reason you "think" its more useful is because the option you would had been using is not fit for purpose. And on the note of gate defusors..... they were rarely used because countering them took only a little effort and no vigilance. The enemy had to be completely unprepared, and in low concentration at your breach point to be successful.... something not likely to happen in a decent sided fight. My outfit used to attempt this all the time, and it worked around one in five if you coordinated it right. Usually we get hit with clusters of tank mines on the inside of the shield..... mine guard protected you from blowing up on entry, but then mass of heavies responding gave you about 10 seconds to get clear of the Sundy. You then have to fight off waves of responders without support..... sometimes we can pull it of, but usually we get overwhelmed. Now 4 sundies full of MAXs would be devistating... but organizing that many people, and then timing the attack is difficult. Really, the reason that strategy worked in some capacity is how it can distract just enough enemies to let your zerg push in.
The only MBT utility that doesn't fit your description of causing or preventing damage is the Magburn, or at large, the speed boost abilities. And you're also wrong in your assessment of FS. It can, but it's not so strong that it's guaranteed to change the outcome. Skill and preparation still makes the biggest difference, as it damn well should. I have a hard time discerning what your point is here. Besides magburn, every ability can have some reliable effect on a combat situation. If people failed to make use of them just because it required some precautions on the side of the attacker, well that's their loss.
I don't think removing an ability or weapon is a solution to anything. Rather than, say, removing Prowler deploy mode, add a new ability that does something different, and do the same for the Magrider and Vanguard; Choice is good. I can say exactly the same about the ES secondary weapons. Rather then changing the Vulcan into a long range weapon (popular suggestion), leave it as a short range weapon and add a new long range weapon instead, and once again do something similar for the Magrider and Vanguard. The only other change I'd then make is to have Prowler abilities also affect the gunner, the same way the Vanguard shield and Magrider magburner also affect the gunner, that would do wonder in terms of solving the complete lack of gunners on Prowlers, as right now it is more efficient to simply pull two 1/2 Prowlers than it is to pull one 2/2 (also fun-factor is a big deal, TR ES weapons are very boring and have low cert gain rates compared to the others).
^ This guy gets it. Coming soon to PS2: Prowlburner - through advanced fuel-injection of NOX, this upgrade grants a limited speed boost to the Prowler. Prowler Shield - having reverse-engineered it, the TR now have a version of the Vanguard Shield, however the Prowler Shield lasts for longer but cannot take as much damage. Magrider Gravitic Attraction Mode (GAM) - By 'anchoring' to the planets magnetic field, the Magrider can increase its fire rate and reload speed. Magrider Shield - In an attempt to 'harden' the thin shell of the Magrider without adding extra weight, Vanu scientists have devised a short-lived shield for use in case of incoming fire. Vanburner - through advanced fuel-injection of NOX, this upgrade grants a limited speed boost to the Vanguard. Vanguard Freedom Mode - By halting and locking down the Vanguard, a small increase to reload speed is gained.
