[Suggestion] MBT abilities 2.0

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by WTSherman, Jul 21, 2015.

  1. WTSherman

    With a lot of the discussion around MBTs recently, I've been thinking that one way to spice up MBT play a bit would be to take a look at their ES abilities.

    First of all, I think it would be great if ES abilities got their own slot. The Prowler's already deploys with B and the Magrider's activates with Lshift, so just change the Vanguard shield to use one of those keys (B would probably work fine) and there would be no conflict with the utility slot.

    This would open up more interesting loadout choices as people would then get to consider how their utilities synergize with their abilities, and they wouldn't have to sacrifice their iconic ES ability to take something like Fire Suppression. This effect will be stronger of course if each of those slots has more options.

    I'm not terribly sure what to do about the utility slot, it's rather anemic on most vehicles to be honest. I sort of understand why prox radar was taken off it since that slot is apparently meant for actives, not passives, but that does leave it a little under-stocked and Defense a little over-stocked.

    If anyone has a neat idea for universal NS utilities it'd be great if you go ahead and post them. Give it a name, a quick description of what it does, try to put some numbers to it so we can get an idea of how strong the effect is, how long it lasts and such. We can always tweak the numbers later, just give us something to start with. If necessary, include which ground vehicles can or cannot use the ability (currently, any NS utility can be used by any ground vehicle).

    The ability slot though, it's also not very interesting with just one thing in it. So I thought up some alternate abilities that could open up more options for the slot.

    Keep in mind that none of these are intended to replace existing abilities. They are meant to be additional options that hopefully open up alternative play styles.

    The ideas here are from another thread, but I've put them here to make them easier to find.

    Primary and secondary weapons have 15-30% faster reload speeds and rates of fire for 6-8 seconds. Cooldown 45-60 seconds. Overload is meant to be a more mobile, offensive alternative to Anchor that allows the Prowler to brawl or skirmish more effectively. It sacrifices raw power and uptime for the ability to be used on the move and affect the secondary gun.

    Palisade Defense System (Palisade or PDS):
    The Vanguard projects a forward-facing half-shell shield that extends a few meters (~10-20m, bearing in mind that PS2 meters are smaller than IRL meters) above, below, and to the sides of the tank. It has a high HP value (~3000-6000 total HP) that only regenerates when the shield is off (like the Aegis) and is counted as Vanguard front armor for the purpose of damage resistance.

    The Palisade has no duration limit and no cooldown, but disables the main gun while the shield is active. The shield will automatically deactivate if it runs out of HP, and cannot be activated with less than 25% HP charged. Allies can shoot through the shield, enemies and allies can pass through (allowing enemies to shoot the Vanguard at point blank if they do so).

    The Palisade is intended to be a more defensive alternative to the Vanguard shield, sacrificing offensive capability in order to provide greater protection to allies. It's kind of a raw deal for the driver, though perhaps blocking damage could grant support EXP similar to how G2A damage works.

    A magburner that primarily propels the tank vertically. It would likely have about the same duration as the current Magburner depending on how much height it gets out of it, maybe a faster recharge. This sacrifices escape/chasing potential in exchange for further ability to reach difficult-to-access areas, the ability to bypass certain walls, and the ability to poptart.

    What are some other cool/different abilities we could add to give this slot more variety?
    • Up x 5
  2. Liewec123

    that all sounds good,
    would love to see a fortified NC line moving forwards with those shields :D
    as for the problem with utility and defence, what if we just had 2 universal slots and got to put anything in them?
    for example, want top and front armor? go for it! front armor and NAR? sure!
    it never made sense to me that if i too auto repair, (which in my mind is utility) i couldn't take front armour.
  3. Goretzu

    I like the ideas, but to be Devil's advocate:

    TR-wise that would be very powerful, too powerful? I dunno, it would depend on extra DPS and reload speed, but it would need to be very carefully balanced especially given the Prowler has the best performing stock chassis as it is. By which I mean if that ability is strong enough to, for example, directly overcome a Vanguards current shield (as Anchor is), then basically its an absolute no brainer choice for tank vs tank combat and probably in general.

    NC-wise the big problem is directional shields; they basically aren't fit for purpose in PS2, they just don't work properly.
    The Aegis Shield just has had problem after problem because of this. :( Maybe if it is a "half circle" shape this might limit the issues.
    Also for it to function like you seem to want it to function I don't know that even 6000 hitpoints will be enough, as the only time I've ever seen anything like infantry moving behind vehicle shields was with the orginal BFRs in PS1 and they had massively powerful (all-around) shields at that time, and even there it only really occured in the pitched open battles that occured between two BFR battle lines.

    VS-wise the major issue I see with this is it undoing a lot of the work SOE/DBG have done, as you'd end up with Mags firing at spawns and such from everywhere as with this they'd be able to climb/jump Mags to even more places.
  4. Jake the Dog

    Give each faction a deploy function, nc would get something kinda like palisade but while deployed at max level would have a 10-15% armor bonus.

    Vanguard with side armor getting around 85-90% resistance. Frontal armor only being 2% behind that.

    VS would get a deploy where struts come from the bottom and lock into place. While locked down, the main gun has no bullet drop and gets a significant dmg increase.
  5. MasterOhh

    Hehe yeah, the ability to anchor a tank that has no turret is surly the wet dream of every Mag pilot....
  6. Haquim

    Finally a countermeasure against those darn magmowers.

    More seriously, I'm pretty sure he meant that you can still rotate (slowly).
  7. WetPatch

    So lets think about this.

    TR get Lock-down with no downsides.

    NC get a Shield which can cover 2 other Vanguards in a line of 3 so they can alternate and become a impregnable moving wall.

    VS get a bunny hop, but not any old bunny hop, a bunny hop into a base which are now clustered with cover and will be unable to move once inside and can become C4 bait.

    How about removing VS top gun and letting us move in any direction at full speed?
  8. Towie

    A Jumping Magrider would be hilarious, but I suspect it would promote 'suicide' (as the Magrider death reason) from a mere 7th to 1st...unless it was rubberized as well :)
  9. Kcalehc

    Heh, like giving ZOE to a Magrider... moves super fast in all directions, but takes more damage. That would probably be stupidly OP though.

    Honestly for the TR, I'd give them something that allows a more consistent and constant rate of fire, by instead of "fire, pause, fire, reload"; it changes to "fire, longer pause, fire, longer pause, fire, etc". So the time between each shot is slightly longer, but there's no stop to reload (as each is reloaded independently after each shot), the pause being enough that the actual overall rate of fire is just a little bit better. An activated ability that runs down as you fire, but recharges when not firing - increasing cert levels give more shots before it runs out, cancelling it, or it running out of charge triggers a longer than normal full reload. Call it "Barrage" or something.
  10. WetPatch

    Fully agree with a Magrider having a Zoe type ability would be well OP, it would just dance around tanks all day long.
  11. eldarfalcongravtank

    my ideas:

    OVERLOAD (TR Prowler):
    effect: for 15 seconds, the Prowler will be 25% faster and its primary/secondary weapons will shoot 30% quicker
    downside: the Prowler's engine compartment will glow burning red and the Prowler will take a bit damage (30-40% of total health) due to the overheat

    PHASER (VS Magrider):
    effect: after a 2 second charge, it makes the entire Magrider and its crew teleport into a new location nearby (~50-100 meters away)
    downside: the teleported location is completely random! after the teleport, the Magrider cannot use its weapons for 10 seconds due to the high energy consumption of the ability

    POINT DEFENSE (NC Vanguard):
    effect: for 30 seconds, a Laser-type Railgun on top of the Tank will shoot down all incoming infantry rockets as well as some aircraft rockets (rocketpods/hornets) before they reach and damage the tank
    downside: all other projectiles (tank rounds, Archer rounds, C4, Basilisk, aircraft HMG) will still get through and damage the tank
    • Up x 1
  12. CipherNine

    As a tangent, I'd like to see new tank ammunition types which would cost nanites. For example tank shell which would cost 200 nanites per reload and do same amount of damage as brick of C4.
  13. Demigan

    I like it all except one thing: The Overloads ability to also increase fire rate, especially of the secondary canon.

    Considering that an increase in reload is already a great help in reducing the downtime of the weapon, the increase in fire rate would mean that you get a much higher total damage potential than before.
    Let's assume 15% reduction of both reload and fire rate.
    The Prowler has a 2,5 second reload, and the 15% reduction is taken off first before any reload speed upgrades are applied. So it takes 0,375 off the reload speed. However, the Prowler also has a Fire rate and fires 2 bullets per second. The first shot is instant, then you get 0,5 seconds before you fire the next one, and then 0,5 seconds again before the reload starts. This means you also take 15% of the 1 second total of refire time, which is 0,15 seconds. Reducing your fire rate with a minium of 0,490 seconds per cycle.
    With 30% you take double the amount of seconds away, so you end up with 0,980 seconds shaven off.

    But you don't just increase your primary weapon, you also increase your secondary weapon. Vulcans become horrific weapons of destruction, Halberds their DPS has an easy 15 to 30% extra, allowing the Prowler to crush Vanguards even on the move. Better yet: this ability works regardless of you being under fire or not, so having more people with the ability helps you tremendously.

    I'll post some idea's tomorrow, I think I got some you might like.
    • Up x 1
  14. WTSherman

    The idea was to essentially nerf anchor enough that it can get away with being usable on the move, as the description says. I do agree though that I might not have nerfed it enough and/or the inclusion of the secondary does too much to negate the reduction in the base effect. It is very much intended to allow you to quickly hit 'n run a hardened target, or save your bacon in 1v1 fights with a quick damage boost. The question is essentially, at what point does it do that job too well?

    Reducing the total cycle time to around the 2-second mark doesn't seem too bad overall for a 6 second duration though. Essentially you will get 6 shots off (3 cycles) in a time where you would have gotten 4, and then the ability ends. So maybe it just means that the 8 second estimate was a little on the high side, and 6 is closer to what it should be?

    Hmm... it does feel like boosting the secondary too does amplify the effect too much though. If we put it at 30% and only give the secondary half benefit though, that'll have a rather interesting effect: a Vulcan receiving a 15% RoF buff will take about 6 seconds to empty its magazine, meaning the ability will wear off before it gets a chance to get the accelerated reload.

    Hmm... How about a drum magazine? What you do is you activate the ability and your gun immediately reloads, but it loads a magazine of 3/4/5/6 shells instead of 2 (or to keep it from scaling too hard, the first and last ranks give an extra shell while the middle two just reduce cooldown, so it goes 3/-/-/4). The next time you reload after that (presumably after you've fired all the shells), you load a normal 2-round magazine and the ability starts its cooldown.

    Honestly I think losing your secondary and becoming a Heavy Lightning might be a bit of a high price to pay for that. Plus that would require figuring out how to change the number of seats. I also think you're underestimating just how effective poptarting can be in a game with low shell velocities.

    My main concerns with the magjump are that Planetside's... "unique" physics could result in a lot of unintended Magrider suicides, and the Magrider might not be able to aim down enough to poptart effectively. Those would definitely be problems.

    If you want something that is more of a straightforward offensive ability though... a beam attack would be interesting. Something like a sustained beam that does 900 AP damage/second for 4 seconds or 600/sec for 6 seconds, somewhere around a 30-60 second cooldown, expends a shot of main gun ammunition and starts a reload (so that you can't immediately follow 2 AP shells of damage with a third AP shell).

    The main concerns with that would be what happens if you sweep the beam across infantry, and that it would probably be pretty easy to swat aircraft with. But at least the cooldown would keep it from getting too ridiculous.

    Regarding the shield's size:

    For a scale reference, a Lightning is about 5 Planetside 2 Meters(tm) wide. So the 5m version of the shield would be able to cover one Lightning on each side of the Vanguard, IF said Lightnings are sidescraping the Vanguard protecting them. This also conveniently makes a good rule of thumb for judging if you're safe from HEAT/HE rounds after the splash radius nerf: if you can fit a Lightning in between you and where the shell will hit, you're safe.

    The 10m version would be able to cover two side-scraping Lightnings, or it could cover one Lightning with a bit of space to maneuver. This does mean that 10m is probably a bit too big, while the 5m version is probably a bit too small. Around 8m is probably about right.
  15. Jake the Dog

    It would still be able to rotate. just because a prowler is my pic doesnt mean i hate the magrider.
  16. Demigan

    NC is the prototype faction, and I had some idea's before to update the base chassis, which would mean the Vanguard shield could get a change, that's why I have the most NC idea's here:

    1: High-power engine.
    I would rather have this as a passive, the idea is that the Vanguard is the heaviest armored tank with the strongest engine. Possibly upgradable, you can ram other tanks and actually push them away. At max rank you can push hostile tanks and even (undeployed) Sunderers away at a velocity of 20 to 30 KM/H.

    2: Second shot or Missile rack.
    You have the ability to fire another shot or a bunch of missiles at any time, regardless of your reload. This added up-front damage allows for a massive alpha-damage. Has a cooldown of 30 sec uncerted 20 sec certed (?).

    3: Energized armor.
    You run extreme high amounts of energy through your vehicle. This detonates explosives when it contacts, mitigating most of the damage as you are not in the full blast (assuming the explosives aren't on you when you activate, if C4 or mines are already on top of you, you just commited suicide) Infantry that comes within 1 to 2m distance gets a shock, killing them quickly. Vehicles within 5m distance also get shocked and have their armor melted and blasted away by the energy with every tick within that distance. Great for CQC fighting, although you need to be careful in proximity of allies as you run a great risk of locking your weapons quickly (Allies could get reduced damage, I think some weapons have something like that already)
    Uptime: 6 seconds (?)
    Cooldown: anywhere between 20 sec minimum and 50 sec maximum, depending on the actual damage it does.

    4: Shield dome.
    You deploy and activate a shield dome around you (possibly only a semi-sphere to your front). Anyone can shoot from inside to the outside, friend or foe. The shield does not block players or vehicles, so they can pass through unhindered.
    While deploying/undeploying your weapons are locked. Should your shield be destroyed, you are locked in deploy mode for a short duration. The shield only recharges when you are undeployed.

    5: Railgun upgrade.
    For several seconds you overcharge your railgun. You don't deal much more damage (if you deal more damage at all), the main feature is that your shot passes through multiple enemies before coming to a stop. This way you can hit damaged tanks that hide behind friendlies, or try to hit the repair crew by shooting through the tanks, or just hit a few infantry in a swarm.
    The ability lasts for 8 to 10 seconds, allowing you to fire 2 to 3 shells with this ability before needing to recharge. The ability has a relatively short cooldown of 25 to 15 seconds.
    Alternative: You can charge your shots, increasing damage, possisbly velocity and allowing you to pass through multiple enemies, but also increasing time between shots. They can use something akin to the Lancer system that's already in place, including that you are forced to fire the shell after maximum charge is reached. Charge 1 is normal shot, charge 2 is increased damage, velocity and passes through 1 enemy, charge 3 increases damage and velocity more and you can pass through 2 enemies.

    6: Nanite ammo facility
    Not to recharge ammo, but to allow you to change your normal ammo to special ammunition types with X. For instance: You crunch your shells and shoot them in a shotgun pattern. AP has the highest velocity, HE has slower velocity but the pellets become explosive, HEAT is in the middle. Deals reduced damage against tanks.
    Other ammo types: (?)

    Manueverability, speed and tactics should be the TR idiom.

    1: Upgraded gears.
    You can temporarily engage better gears, improving your turn ratio and allowing you to move in reverse as fast as forwards. Great for doing tight turns around your enemy and getting shots in his back or getting out of a fight fast while keeping your strong front armor facing the enemy. Possibly allows you to increase your acceleration and braking speed as well.
    Duration: several seconds
    Cooldown: 30 uncerted, 20 certed.

    2: Delayed fuse shells/Self-detonated shells.
    Your shells deal a small amount of damage upon hit, then remain in the enemy until their fuse ends and deal the remainder of the damage. Great for taking out vehicles that hide near cover, as they will misjudge the amount of damage they got and be destroyed after they run for cover.
    The self-detonated shells mean you can place up to 4 shells, which you can detonate with F. If you pass the 4 shells limit the longest one on the ground will explode. Great for traps, such as placing a few on the ground and detonating when someone drives over them. This deals damage to their bottom, which has rear-armor damage modifiers. Because you didn't hit them you miss out on a bit of damage and won't be able to OHK them this way, but it's still an incredible powerful tool (because this is so powerful it might be prudent to reduce it to only 2 shells on the ground, allowing this to get 2 rear-shots on your enemy is already mightily powerful in any fight). Also great for AI work by placing a few near doorways where infantry could appear.

    3: Nanite ammo facility.
    Again not for recharging ammo, but for altering the ammo you have with X. Chrunches your ammo and allows you to fire a stream of bullets in a large COF. AP has the highest velocity, HE has explosive shells, HEAT has the middle ground. Deals reduced damage against tanks.

    The VS is always a hard faction to think abilities for. Not sure what to do for them, which is why most of these idea's aren't very good.

    1: Heightened gravity manipulators.
    Allows the Magrider to better climb, going up to 60 to 70 degree angles. Disadvantage is that it has a duration and you are slowed while it is active.
    Duration: (?)
    Cooldown: (?)

    2: Height manipulator.
    Allows you to permanently change the height of your hovering. With space you go higher, ducking you go lower. You can go a maximum of 1 Magriders height, so you could float above a low-flying Magrider. Keep in mind though that your stability is still determined by the surface area beneath you, so you'll still have your Magrider move any direction while trying to fly above friend or foe.

    3: Hover frame.
    Rather than falling, you can now hover down from a height and land safely regardless of how high you were. Your Magrider will try to level itself horizontally when you press space and are in the air, this will instantly slow your descent, but also slow your movement speed in any direction.

    4: Magrider cloaking.
    You stop and deploy, locking you in place. You can still turn on your axis. You become stealth while not firing. Mostly advantageous for avoiding detection and getting passed enemies rather than ambushes as you'll not be able to strafe and move, one of the Magriders most valuable abilities. You can try though...

    5: Nanite ammo facility.
    Not for recharging ammo, but for changing your ammunition with X. For instance: Changes the plasma capacitors to a slower burning plasma. After hitting an area the plasma will remain burning for a short duration. Great for area denial of both tanks and infantry. AP has the smallest but most concentrated burning, HE the largest, HEAT in the middle.
    Alternative: The plasma can now bounce. It deals much less damage for each direct hit, but it's AOE deals damage against infantry and tanks. Best used by shooting into an infantry-infested building or letting it bounce between a column of enemy tanks.

    6: Strong EMP blast
    Disables the HUD and all special abilities of all players and vehicles in the AOE, friend or foe, and naturally detonates any deployable nearby. Prevents Prowlers from going into or out of a lockdown, and instantly resets the cooldown on Vanguard shields.
  17. Jubikus

    Lockdown is itself a downside sitting in 1 spot is not good may not be major but it is indeed a drawback