MAXes are out of control

Discussion in 'MAX' started by N4poleon, Mar 4, 2014.

  1. N4poleon

    [IMG]

    Skillsuits currently ruin small-medium sized fights. Not even mentionning the huge 100vs100 spamfests where there's 4 of them constantly sitting at chokepoints.

    Right now people spawn maxes whenever they are having a bad K/D. And most of the time there's a large amount of random engineers to back them up (this might depend on the server/faction though). Even if there aren't, high BRs can afford autorepair which is sufficient in 12-24 or in large base 24-48, provided they have decent situational awareness.

    Taking out a good max user in 1v1 is almost impossible: The deci + conc + firing LMG in its head only works against bad players that don't charge and don't know how to deal with being conced (dealing with concs as max is actually pretty easy). On top of that, the amount of time you need to kill them is ridiculously high. If other enemies pop-up during your conc/deci combo, bye bye you are screwed.
    AV nades are decent but a max user will also charge out of AV nade blast, am I supposed to be a HA and carry 4 av nades at all times just to avoid getting ganked by maxes? This means i'm sacrificing a lot against regular infantry, maxes on the other side aren't sacrifying anything, they are just better overall. Maxes need a better hard counter than the ultra expensive AV grenades.
    Also, the fact that max rank flak-armor maxes can survive the inner blast radius of a C4 is ridiculous, what are medics/LAs/Engis even supposed to do? Emptying carbine clips in its head until it just charges away?

    The ability to charge is also ridiculous: in small fights it allows you to rush people and kill them before they can even react. In big fights, it allows you to back out from anything, and come back 30 seconds later fully healed.

    Finally, the current spamming (on miller at least) is plain wrong, 450 infantry ressources and a timer that can be decreased to a few minutes? It takes 5 minutes to fill up your infantry ressources in an infantry hex. Good maxes with charge barely die anyway, and when they do get unlucky and take two rockets in the face at the same time, they just get rezzed.

    "But but but, Teamwork OP, you need engies to keep maxes alive and stuff:" Random maxes and random engies farming certs together isn't "teamwork". Most maxes are used by randoms, hell most of the fights that happen in Planetside are random and most people are lonewolfers/lonewolf 50%+ of the time. Maxes need to be somewhat balanced during pub-play (kind of like the philosophy behind the nerfs to air).

    "But but but: You shouldn't be allowed to kill MAXes 1v1": Then they shouldn't either. Spending a bunch of certs and some ressources shouldn't allow you to permanently be a supersoldier that wins every 1v1.
    Again, pub-gameplay is important because that's what the game is 90% of the time.

    Solutions:

    Here are ideas for a few different ways to balance MAXes:

    -Make maxes truly team-based: They could be extremely tanky (more than they are now) but they lose A LOT of killing power. (Shotgun OHKs? Are you kidding me?) If you are to spawn a max, you should do it to help your squad, not to farm.

    -If you are to keep them the way they are, change their spawn mechanics and make them unrezzable. I'd be ok with very few OP maxes as long as they aren't spammable.

    -Don't alter the spawn mechanics but nerf Maxes survavibilty drastically: Charge should go away, autorepair should go away, flak armor should go away. C4 should always be an insta-kill, rockets should bring them to 15% health, 3 carbine/AR clips should be enough to kill them.

    -Add a mechanic/weapon that shreds MAXes. Kind of like skyguards. Right now, the one and only true hardcounter to a skillsuit is getting a skillsuit yourself.
    • Up x 11
  2. minhalexus

    I think they should reduce max power by 1/6. Making them deal only 5/6 of what they deal now.

    Your idea of rockets getting maxes down to 15% is extreme. Rockets are free, max suits are not.

    I'm fine with the idea of maxes being unrezzable.

    Its a fair trade, you can kill a max by spawning your own max. If they will add a mechanic to kill maxes, then there should be resource costs to it.

    For example:
    ESFs cost resources, therefore Skyguards cost resources. Which is a fair trade.


    There is already of rockets taking down maxes, which is fairly balanced IMO.
    Get the Decimator if you want to kill maxes more effectively.
  3. Riddlley

    Im going to keep this short. They are teambased. An engineer typically follows them around 100% of the time. Are you trying to tell me that YOU, by yourself should be able to take out a skyguard by yourself in an ESF? Give me a break.

    MAX units kill infantry. They do it well. A single infantry isnt supposed to be able to kill a MAX in a fair fight, EVER. That is their entire purpose in life, I frequently roadkill/explode max'es that don't have an engineer with them.

    Not only that, just because an engineer is farming certs repairing max'es doesnt make it any different teamwork. It never stops being teamwork because of that. EXP is rewarded to encourage this teamwork.

    And above all. A max that has spent the certs on max level flak armour has sunk an awful lot of time into playing max. Its like a dedicated liberator pilot, just a style of play that you percieve as OP because you think you should be able to kill anything easily.
    • Up x 21
  4. N4poleon

    Ressources don't work and you can't balance anything around that. You can get all the ressources you want very quickly by fighting in a hex with the ressource of your choosing.
    I know, there's a ressource revamp incoming but we don't know what it will be and we can't wait for that.

    O RLY? Thanks!
  5. Akeita

    MAXes is stronk, versatile which can change between AI/AV/AA, just limit how often they can change their loadout, about 5 min ( unless you guys let tankers and pilots change their loadout )...
  6. minhalexus

    I am saying the exact opposite.
    Skyguards can effectively take down ESFs, but they cost resources, that is why people can not and dont spam them. Non the less a smart ESF pilot can take out a bad skyguard, and if 2 or 3 work together (with good timing) then Gbye skyguard.

    So if you want to kill maxes, its balanced that you spawn a max suit of your own. Although if you are a good LA or HA player then you can kill a max with a certain strategy,

    If SOE wants to bring in a system that can kill maxes effectively, then it should also cost resources, to avoid a squad from spamming it. (like C4 costs resources)

    Decimator is a very effective way of killing maxes, and its free (of resources). If you are really pissed at a max just shoot him one rocket.
    In most places (other than biolabs) a max will die due to the lack of engineers around.
  7. N4poleon


    Right, I almost forgot about the AV/AA part, wich makes it even more wrong.


    No it doesn't, about 80% of my deci shots, the max is still alive, either kills me or just charges away. The only maxes I kill with a single deci shot are low BRs.
  8. Shinrah

    The whole point of MAX´s is to be superior to normal infantry. That´s why they cost the biggest chunk of your infantry resources and why they have a cooldown timer. They are also terrible on their own/outside of buildings. They are slow and cumbersome, they provide a big target for anyone.
    If you fight MAX´s head on you are supposed to lose, lure em into traps or attack from a distance and they are a disadvantage. And if you face supported MAX units with engineers, well you can hardly complain about losing to teamplay?
  9. minhalexus

    Again a good max suit should be able to win against you. (its balanced)
    Assuming you are a highlevel player, its balanced that you are able to kill nooby maxes.

    You keep forgetting that deci-shots are free, max suits comes with cooldown time, and resources.

    A very effective way of killing maxes should come with a cooldown time and resources. (decishots do not)

    The only nerf maxes should get is damage reduction so infantry can react a bit.
  10. Selerox

    Yes, MAXes are team based, but the problem isn't that they're effective - they should be effective. The problem is the sheer numbers of them that you're starting to face now. Biolabs are now very much turning into a case of whoever can dig in MAXes first and more effectively wins. It's negating a lot of the infantry combat and making it a game of:

    MAXes + support + MAX killers vs MAXes + support + MAX killers

    It's all about the MAXes. Rather than MAXes being a part of the the infantry combat mix, in some situations they've become the infantry combat mix, with other classes simply becoming support classes.

    Don't nerf the effectiveness of MAXes, but nerf the numbers of available MAXes. The revive nerf helped, but It didn't go far enough. It could be that the resource cost is still too low. Whatever happens, something needs to be looked at to curtain the problem of MAX flooding.

    MAX crashing as a tactical tool is fine, it's a vital tactical tool within the game. But when you're simply facing an endless horde of the things, then it's a whole different story. That is the current problem. The fact that MAXs aren't specialist units for a specialist role, they're now the go-to unit in all infantry situations in an indoor or urban environment.
  11. sustainedfire

    Maxes are not really an issue.

    They cannot cap points, they are slow, they are susceptible to explosive damage, and require teammates to stay alive and on the field.

    1 on 1, a max vs an infantry unit, a max should win.

    AV nade, Concussion nade + rocket. C4. You have counters available.

    My favorite move is to plant c4 outside of the doorway they are camping, take a few pistol potshots at them to entice them into thinking they have a noob attacking and then as they peak out thinking they can kill you swiftly, detonate the c4 and good bye max.
    • Up x 4
  12. gigastar

    An NC player complaining about the other factions MAXs?

    Its like he doesnt even know that the ScatMAX is the undisputed god-king hell-emperor of CQC situations.
    • Up x 2
  13. Nick Riviera


    Lots of good reasons to keep MAXes where they are, but this sums it up.

    I don't understand how you think maxes shouldn't be allowed to 1v1 an infantry. And changing loaded makes a lot of sense and insane convenience. I'll have to add this, l2p.
    • Up x 1
  14. Pondera

    Ever consider using C4? Not hard to let one see you, toss down a brick of C4, wait for them to round the corner, and hit the button. MAX bits everywhere.
    • Up x 2
  15. JudgeDeath

    [IMG]
    • Up x 9
  16. Pirbi

    Maxs are fun targets as they are. I tend to pull a LA or HA against a max.
  17. Akeita

    I can. But I'll lose my ESFs
  18. Klypto

    Idk about that one, I C4 maxes all the time. It's only when they are with a group of people or get the jump on me that I get wrecked.
    • Up x 1
  19. Boomotang

    MAXes are fun!

    • Up x 3
  20. Boomotang

    The problem isn't MAXes. It's Biolabs.

    While the lattice helped a lot of things. It hurt the gameplay of attacking Biolabs, because it's too hard to own all the teleports leading in, or impossible in some cases. Attacking Biolabs really depended on having as many avenues into the base as you could get. The devs have admitted this, and there will probably be some changes to Biolabs in the future.
    • Up x 3