So currently MAXes are a combination of Tanks and Infantry They have the Health of Tanks, the movement of tanks (acceleration etc) but the same access to bases as Infantry and the aiming of Infantry. so there are 4 different things that can really change how MAXes behave Health: buffing or lowering, doesn't change much, just alters how cheesy it is movement: higher acceleration wouldn't change the combat capabilities much, but would impove mobility by quite a bit and make sprinting maybe the goto state. can't really go lower with it. access: it's designed as an indoor tank, so restricting indoor access doesn't make any sense Aiming: here is the interesting part. MAXes are basicly just Infantry with higher health and a longer accelerstion. what would happen if we limited the turnspeed? suddenly the MAX actually is an indoor tank. just pulling a MAX for everything is less attractive, because a heavy might be the better option when there is the possibility to be flanked. we could even buff the HP (or even firepower) as it is finally possible to harrass a MAX but not outright kill it and surviving it because it couldn't turn around fast enough. using MAXes in defensive positions or for MAX crashes would be the main role of it: you don't need to make a 360° noscope in defense if you are positioned correctly in a push the enemy is right infront of you, no need to turn much and ZOEs role in this: currently ZOE is... underwhelming... if ZOE would unlock turn speed again, but keep every current effect it would turn into a tool for pushes into open room. we could even remove some stuff then: maximum speed increase: not it's main advantage anyway Damage increase (lol): not need anymore the things that would really define ZOE then would be acceleration, turnspeed and glowing purple for the tradeoff of 30% of your health with a 15 second duration on a timer. opinions?
Nice idea, but potentially counterable by bumping up your sensitivity settings all the way and upping the DPI on your mouse. ZOE would be just like the Dogfighting frames on ESFs, nobody uses them because you can just switch your sensitivity.Can't really see them implementing that as a serious balancing measure.
I'm talking about a turnspeed maximum like tanks have it, not a sensitivity reduction like Concussion grenades cause them. the day i see a magrider do an instant 360° i'll start complaining anyway for reference: the Magrider is a big disk shaped Infantry unit with aa second gun on top code wise. Magriderfootsteps ftw
I appreciate the thought behind this, and it might well make MAXes better for the game overall, so in that sense, it's a change I could support. However, there's no way it would stop the complaints about MAXes. The fact is, lots of people hate ANY thing that has an inherent advantage over them in 1v1 combat, no matter what it costs or whether it can be countered (see the thousands of HA shield complaint threads). Unlike tanks and aircraft, you can't just exclude the MAX from infantry space, so there's essentially nothing you can do short of making the AI MAX an expensive support unit to shut people up. Given that a fundamental concept in this game is spending your nanites as efficiently as possible to gain as much advantage as you can, I think the real issue is making the resource system work better. People (particularly members, who often forget they purchased a large advantage here) don't feel restricted enough in their resource use. Several of the popular complaints these days, such as MAX use and grenade spam, started (or got much worse) with the resource revamp. Once there's a way to deplete the enemy's resources, complaints will probably drop off naturally. I'd also prefer a return to a system which separates air, armor, and infantry resources, to encourage diversification, but that's not going to happen since it's less newbie-friendly.
Made a few corrections there. 2 direct hits by a tank drops a MAX, yet a tank doesn't go down in 2 hits to another tank. The movement of tanks? Exaggerating quite a bit aren't ya? Sure when a MAX can run all day long at 50+kph, then we can talk again. Till then, work on getting better. Peace.
i can't get any better, i'm already perfect. also: "The Galaxy is Tanky" "Tanks are Tanky" "Libs are Tanky" "HA is Tanky" spot something? "HP of a tank" is relativ. but seeing that disagreeing with the choice of words is the only Counter Argument you have, than the idea must be perfect
He's not exagerating, he's just making a comparison. A relative comparison. Of course he didn't mean MAX could run at 60kph, how could you even think he was meaning this? This is seriously one of the dumbest comment I've seen on Forumside. I'd say no because way to counterable by regular infantry if the turning speed of the MAX is lowered. Just turn around the MAX in circle while shooting at him, it won't be able to shoot back properly. If you tweak it so the MAX can actually do catch the ground unit running around, then reducing the speed won't have any effect appart from turning 180°.
thats the Point of the Change. currently a MAX is a solo Unit untill you Need repairs or ran out of your 700+ bullets. if a MAX is more vulnerable to flanking it leaves room open for squads to utilize it more tactical and for SOE to buff it's HP to make it a proper Walking tank instead of an Infantry unit covered in a thick armor of cheese
The Magrider can track Infantry Close range, why would a MAX with a turn Speed lock not be able too? (not accounting for user Errors?)
If that's your counterargument, then how does the initial proposal - turn speed lock being a meaningful limitation for purposes of flanking - hold water?
it may suprise you, but between having no turn Speed lock and not being able to turn at all there is quite Abit of variety
That wasn't an answer to my question, at least not a direct one. On one hand, you're arguing that a turn speed lock is going to make a significant engagement difference. On the other hand, you're trying to reassure me, through comparison, that the turn speed lock should not make a significant engagement difference. The subject at hand is flanking and my point is being flanked happens as easily as when you can not (ever) re-target something that is shooting at you; moreover, if any flanking opponent is actually prepared to deal with an oblivious MAX as the game currently stands, that MAX is already greatly inconvenienced or dead, even when it can turn.
The Magrider has a turn Speed lock and is very vulnerable to be flanked but is capable of attacking oponents in a rather big angle to the front with ease and precision. if this can be translated into the MAX, it would be more dependent on allies covering it's back, while itself would have to Focus on a target area it Chose before. thats also why i said that the MAX health might be buffed with a turnspeed lock. the more restricted the MAX gets, the more survivable/powerfull it would Need to in that role. considering that the current MAX is a rather bad breaching unit but an excellent direct Combat Infantry unit, changing that around would make MAXes a more squad focused unit, that would be more reliant on specific situations instead of an end all be all solution in every fight
The most common complaint about MAXes involves their combination of health and firepower allowing them to lumber forward and gun down everything in their path; furthermore, they can still pop out from around a corner while the opponent is preparing to deal with them (when the said opponent is even using his ears) and can still flatten them. The latter, I think, is their breaching in action. The fix you are trying to arrive upon is one that creates a stark difference between their breaching, attacking, and turtling abilities; you are correct, I believe, that they have very little separating those abilities. Giving them more health against everything is going to make that even worse and allow them to aggress or turtle longer/better. Like I said: I believe a MAX that is flanked by opponents who are prepared to fight it to the death (at the very least, deal a good blow to it) is already a fairly inconvenienced MAX. I do not see how adding a hypothetical flanking vulnerability that they already possesses against such an opponent is going to help relieve that complaint. I'm also not talking about people opening fire on them with small arms; that's probably the more suicidal approach to deal with the given target. (Moreover, I feel I know PS1 MAXes well enough to say that their turning speed limits make the game environment their enemy more than it makes their enemy their enemy. It just feels clunky and unsatisfying.) I'm going to toss my own suggestion out there: want to make MAXes more vulnerable while being aggressive and mobile without impacting their breaching or turtling capacity? A good place to start is by affecting when they can be repaired by Engineers. Require them to remain sessile to accept the said repairs. (Perhaps even the Engineer should be stationary.)
FateJH is pretty much sharing my mind right now (it's almost scary). On one hand such feature if done too much would completely render MAX useless against infantry, but on the other hand it doesn't make any significant change at all and is merely a suggestion tu remove the apparently cheese aspect of the unit. Also, am I the only one who thinks that the MAX unit is actually fine right now ? Maybe it's because I mostly play HA and arguably having the most tool to deal with MAX that changes my vision of them...
You're not the only one, but as usual, the people with the complaint are far more vocal. People always tend to remember that one MAX they just couldn't kill, or a coordinated MAX crash pulled by the opponent (thanks to membership bonuses, certain outfits can do this WAY too often, but that's a problem with the resource system), but they don't even notice the all the inexperienced MAXes that died 30 seconds into combat because, well, they weren't around long enough to make their presence felt.
I play 95% Light Assault and the other 5% are as engineer in Vehicles. the only time MAXes are a threat to me is when they are on AA Duty aand actuslly look up. that doesn't change my view on them being worthless for teamplay and only useful as solo farming machines
Dual bursters MAX is the only kind of MAX I pull these days because they're way too useful and sadly, in some fights, there are clearly not enough of them to deal with the libs or massive amounts of ESF (I'm looking at you dear Miller TR and your banshees*). If it's not dual bursters, it's dual comets to deal with sundies. *This is merely a troll, don't go ham on this remark.
