MAX AV weapon Balance.

Discussion in 'MAX' started by Mxiter, Nov 29, 2013.

  1. Mxiter

    Because there is actually strong differences between Max AV weaponry.

    What could makes the underwhelming weapons more interesting to use?
    What makes the best/most workable AV max weapons stronger?

    Discuss.

    Please no "OP"/ whine or overpowered suggestion here, try to stay objective between all 6 AV weapons.
    Thanks.
  2. MasterDemoman

    Make falcons and the pounder less useless, make comets and fractures more useless (As in less powerful) or just buff the pounder, falcons, and ravens to where they fall in line with fracs and comets...

    But seriously, no. Comets and fractures, are definitely incredibly powerful, especially when paired with their ability (Fracs at range with lockdown are the ultimate stalemate MAX and just plain old no fun for anyone, excluding farmers, involved) The only AV weapon for MAXes I'd say was "balanced" would be vortexes, because I never see them, but when I do they seem relatively balanced. (But require tweaking with ZOE)

    The balance with MAX special abilities is simple, make it so lockdown and ZOE don't get their ROF and damage buff (respectively) when using AA or AV, this way, NC which is lacking the magical "I win against vehicles or air instantly" button is not totally left in the dust when it comes to AA or AV.
    • Up x 4
  3. Ceskaz

    Fix the convergence of AV weapons. It shouldn't be so hard to set the convergence to where it is being aimed when fired (kind of a problem with the pounder because of huge drop). Or at least be able to select the convergence distance (WWII planes technology, yeah !).
    A small boost to NC AV speed would be great. Maybe reduce the smoke trail of Falcon also, because this kind of blind the shooter...
    Less drop on pounder. Fracture are fine as AV (don't want to talk about their AI capcities here)
    Comet is fine IMO. Maybe too slow. Don't know much about Vortex. Don't see much either... The charge mechanism don't seem to fit MAX gameplay. Maybe with ZOE mobility, it can fit, don't know...
    • Up x 1
  4. neoNEO

    Falcons have the highest damage of all AV Max. Its hard to use, i would say it has a "learning curve" quite similar to Gauss SAW. Once you get the right skill to use Falcons its almost as OP as ZOE with dual comet. I will make another Guide about Falcons and how to use them properly like i did with the max shotguns.
    • Up x 1
  5. Mxiter

    Also other question i forget to mention: Should the first generation AV weapons have have the same purpose: exellent at close range but terrible past 50m and the second one better at range and weaker at close range?

    No thoughts on ravens?

    Try to suggest what caracterisitics changes could improve/balance those weapons. (velocity, ROF, reload time, damages, convergence, damages against infantries/air/vehicles ect)
  6. janeTEXAS

    to counter a ZOE just use a concussion nade + decimator and finish him with your primary weapon. Or just throw a anti-vehicle nade! :)
  7. Darayavahus

    Why doesnt Max weapons have alternative firing modes? It would be easy to implement. Raven unguided missiles but with faster velocity (and here we go it is in line with Fracture). Pounder hard to harness? Easy just switch between different drop off angles at the cost of firing speed. Etc.
    • Up x 1
  8. Mxiter

    Same can be done against every max.
    But it's not the subject isn't about ZoE here.
    Thx.
  9. neoNEO


    All NC weapons are designed for specific situations as we all know. Ravens are designed for AV purpose, the low projectile velocity enables you to control the missile and follow the target if he starts to retreat. Its currently the best option for AV in the game if you can place yourself in a good spot and with a aegis shield to counter the tanks if they start to attack you. At this point Ravens have a specific and balanced place in this game, a combination of heavy assaults with phoenix and nc max with dual raven its probably the best AV counter at the moment in the game.
    • Up x 1
  10. Chewy102

    The problem I have with both the Raven and Phoenix is that they have a hard cap on range. No other AV weapon has this. Even though lock-ons have a cap on their locking range, once locked the rockets track beyond the lock range for another 100-200m. If a Raven or Phoenix tries to go beyond its range cap the rocket explodes doing nothing.

    Countless times Iv had enemies just outside of that range cap unable to do any damage but was taking non stop fire from their AV weapons. In the vast majority of those times it would have been impossible to move closer as that would have be suicide by leaving the only cover.

    The Phoenix having a hard cap range I can understand. The game Iv been told can't handle a jump bigger than 300m without a loading screen. But that isn't the really the case from my hours of playing. Next time you're playing, join a squad that's across the map from you and press "insert". Very often hitting that button moves me across the entire map without loading anything or waiting for a redeploy timer. Really, the game spawns me before rendering parts of the world. Iv fallen out of towers, had vehicles render with me inside of them, and watched the world being made before my eyes all without any loading screens.

    Ravens though. They shouldn't be called a long range weapon in my opinion. 300m hard range when every other weapon it the same class (2nd gen MAX AV) can just about go to render distance. Guided weapons need a limit but the cost of range for a long range weapon is counter productive. The rounds being slow and sluggish to turn with the need to stay out of cover for the entire time all rounds are in the air to keep LOS makes them harder to use to begin with. Cutting the range so short is a tad overkill. I think they should have at least a 400m range, maybe 500m.
    • Up x 1
  11. Pikachu

    Still boring as heck to use. Impressive if you find them useful.
  12. Pikachu

    I just wish to nerf fracture and comet a bit in their AI capabilities without resorting to damage modifiers. Add a little recoil to fracture and increase reload time. Maybe cut velocity to 150. Change ZOE bonus to comet so it takes 3 hits to kill with or without it, just not enough to pass the threshold that reduces shots to kill.


    For their proper AV role
    Pounder is just dumb. Its damage and such are too similar to fracture to make it enough different. But at least it could have its drop reduced and be given a second fire mode with even more drop than it currently has so it can be used for real moetae stuff. Also the smoke trails could be made weaker so they have the advantage of being harder to see. However they need a glow at the rear so the user can see where the shots are landing.

    Fracture, as said give a little recoil. I think comet, raven ans vortex has that currently. Increase reload time. Maybe cut magazine to 8. At worst cut velocity also to >= 150.

    Comet is fine. Vortex too.

    Raven not sure. They are so slow and require the user to be exposed for the whole time. Maybe increase damage a bit. I think there is room for it without passing over to 1hk threshold. Raise initial velocity to 30, its 10 atm.

    Falcon should become a cannon again with less smoke than before and get back its constant 90 velocity and preferably raise it further to 120. That would give it back the advantage of being hard to see for the enemy. That would make it somewhat good at shooting MAXes again. But still it would not kill them with 3 hits like it used to since SOE added stealth armor for MAXes against MAX AV weapons.
  13. neoNEO


    If you are used to play dual comets or fractures i understand :p
  14. Pikachu

    Im used to using falcons pre-GU7. The only problem back then was the low DPS.
  15. MasterDemoman

    (Not entirely serious) Give all AV weapons splash damage buffs unless they're machine gun rocket launchers.... (Basically saying) Buff NC AV weapon splash damage, then our range-lacking Ravens and "skill requiring" falcons would be effective at something. (On a definitely more serious note) Falcons also need a definite velocity buff. (Unless ZOEs start moving... oh I dunno... slower then Light Assaults with Adrenaline Pump?)

    Seriously though, AV and AA weapons SHOULD NOT, I repeat, SHOULD EFFING NOT, be effected by the ROF and damage buffs given to the TR and VS abilities respectively, this means both TR and VS's AV weapons will always be better than NC's, regardless of skill, because you're obviously trying to balance the MAXes weapons based on the weapons stats, not how their abilities affect the stats.
    (Lockdown does require skill, I know, but sniper-frac-lockdown-ing from far enough away to where NC Ravens can't shoot back is blatantly imbalanced. Example=Scarred Mesa Skydock.)
  16. Goretzu

    Old Falcons were better IMO (even with lower DPS).

    As for how to balance MAX AV? Give everyone a Fracture equiverlent.
  17. Singed

    YES PLEASE!!! nerf lockdown. Standing still is OP.
    Also quick question: How did SOE ever think that close range AV weapons would be useful? I can't remember ever wishing to have to get closer to a vehicle to kill it.
    • Up x 3
  18. OldMaster80

    A question for all vehicle drivers: how many times did you die because of the pounder? Can you remember a time where it dealt significant damage to you? I bet 50€ the answers are "Never" and "No".

    TR Pounder is useless against vehicles because of an insane weapons convergency. It's amazing: you can't hit a target if that's too close and not even it it's too far. Considerer the ammo clip size is just 2 (2??!?!?!!) the fist shot is always wasted to check where bullets fall and calibrate the aim. At the moment that's probably the worst weapon I've seen in PS2 in more than 1 year.
    It's already very hard to hit a tank with a Pounder, TR can't even dare to try to use it against infantry.
    • Up x 2
  19. Takoita

    Pounder is ****e that they've managed to make worse since launch. Falcons were changed into awkward rubbish for whatever reason. Comets + ZOE usually kill my MAX a bit too quick to react. Don't have enough experience with others to say more.
    • Up x 1
  20. Makora

    I haven't used NC or BS- I mean VS (those keys are next to each other, how inconvenient) MAX AV weapons that much but one thing that definitely needs to happen is convergence needs to be made same across all factions on first gen AVs.
    What I mean by that is that both Pounders and Falcons (to my knowledge) have this thing called a "blind spot" (or dead space, sounds more dramatic) basically the convergence makes it very difficult to hit infantry sized enemies at close range because you will simply shoot past them even if your sights are dead on.

    So we can do this two ways: we can make it so all AV weapons have perfect convergence. The aim will converge at the point you are aiming at. OR, we give Comets dead space. Basically we hit it the convergence hammer.
    The first option is not likely as Devs are actively trying to make these weapons worse against infantry, and making it so you can actually hit them in CQB with less effort is kinda going in the opposite direction. Then there are the pounders that require you to aim above the target so convergence will go wonky no mater how you look at it.
    So the second option is the most likely one. You make it so Comets get dead space, and thus much less effective in CQB against infantry sized opponents. Right now Comets are simply too easy to use. Sure I can kill infantry with Pounders, but there's a LOT of guesswork involved in just how much to the side I have to aim when I want to shoot it at them.

    Also there is the option of certifications. I honestly have no idea what to do with the Falcons in this regard other then give them... HV ammunition that travels faster but do a bit less damage (or something). For the pounders I have said it once, and will say it again: HE ammunition. More drop, less damage to armor, but a much larger and more damaging splash radius to infantry. It is called the M3 Pounder HEG, HEG standing for High Explosive Grenade. So if we are supposed to be a mobile mortar system, let us be versatile in that role.
    • Up x 2