Discussion in 'Archived Features' started by PS2_Luke, Jan 10, 2014.
I mean, bring back the vulture
I know it's not the concept of the vulture, but ps2 lib is not the same concept as ps1 lib
All in all SOE I think a lot of people just want carpet bombing half want it on the liberator and half want it on the galaxy. To be honest I would say the galaxy considering that it has no pilot weapon. So being able to do that as a primary gun for pilot would be cool. Now some people might say well now people will just carpet bomb every minute, well that can be changed either making it one carpet bomb per run then having to reload or having a timer on it like gate defusing, but the timer could be every 15 minutes then you could cert into it to make it short waiting times
A few ideas for making Liberators have varied and if need be specific roles for a more tactical side of game play.
1) Quick air transport: the main gun would be replaced with a number of rumbled seats, as mentioned. The trade off for the lack of a belly gun would be a faster and more agile aircraft. This is an ideal trait for in and out drop ships. The only thing I am torn on is whether occupants should be allowed to fire their weapons. On one hand, this would give the occupants something to do and add extra fire power. On the other hand, I can see a Lib full of heavies farming vehicles and having the main purpose of the extra seats ignored. Yet at the same time, this would require the Lib to fly lower, making it more susceptible to ground fire.
2) Carpet Bomber: Various types of ammunition could be used and each kind would have certain effects on the Lib's performance. Standard bombs would have the area of effect that Heat Rounds would on a Prowler. The higher up they are dropped, the more inaccurate they are. Example: a drop from 400 meters would find ordinance falling farther apart and more to the left and right of the intended area of attack than if the drop happened at 200 meters. Heat would be ideal for damaging/killing both infantry and vehicles.
HE bombs would be specifically for infantry, but would require a lower altitude drop. Otherwise high altitude drops would be extremely inaccurate. Little to no damage to vehicles.
Regarding HE and Heat Bombs: They can be certed into the Lib, with each level adding 1 extra bomb. However, the higher the level, the slower the Lib will travel and maneuver due to the increased weight of the payload. Pilots will have the option to pick the level they want to equip. So this means one could cert to level 5, but has the option of later equipping a level 2 payload if need be. Also, after dropping the payload, the Lib would remain on enemy radar for a longer than usual period of time.
AP Bomb: This would be a single bomb or perhaps "torpedo" that would do extreme amounts of damage to a vehicle. Essentially, think of the Lib as becoming a Stuka Dive Bomber from WWII. The bomb is aimed using a secondary nose gun sight. The faster the Lib is going the higher the torpedo velocity. This would be a high risk but high reward weapon/tactic. If this were to be considered I would even go as far as to suggest that one AP torpedo can kill anything in 1 hit (considering the difficulty of the dive and the high risk). The belly gunner could also be the one aiming the torpedo or perhaps be a secondary AA gun.
For Libs using Carpet bombing, regarding reload: rather than make the warp gate the only play one can reload, have each map have a select few tower bases that are able to reload carpet bombers (put them in the center areas of all maps). This way, that base will have a high value to it, other than being a defense point or crossroads on the latice. Think of it like the US using Japanese islands in the Pacific to bomb the mainland in WWII. Without these bases, bombing missions take much longer to carry out as they have to fly from the warp gate. I can easily see factions fighting over these special bases in order to establish a bomber base.
Naturally, all carpet bombers will have very long reload times. Perhaps this too could be certed into in order to reduce reload times?
3) Non-Lethal Support Liberator: This would replace the belly gun with a number of cool tools. First, instead of a Dalton that kills ground targets, what about a Dalton-like device that fires smoke shells. I can see tactical outfits using these Libs as a means to screen troop movements on the ground and keep the enemy in confusion. It would also create a need for thermal optics on vehicles and for infantry.
A second option is a large area radar that not only detects enemies but provides very detailed info. This info would include troop type, vehicle type, and so on. It could also act as a counter to smoke too. Alongside this, a person who would usually be the belly gunner, would have a small area, non-lethal laser target indicator. Essentially, the gunner would point the laser at a group of enemies. The laser would immediately spot the targets when clicked, and would high light those players, smoke or no smoke. If the laser is moved off of the targets, they stay high lighted for about 5 seconds at most and then go back to "normal." Spotted targets killed by friendlies would give the Lib team EXP.
Since both these tools are non-lethal, they should provide the Lib with a boost in speed and agility to quickly get in and out if need be. This would also encourage team play, as an ESF escort would be required to keep the Lib operating effectively in the AO.
4) Ammo/repair Lib: This is a bit more far-fetched, but bear with me. This Lib would replace the belly gun with an ammo rack or repair capacitor. Acting exactly like a sunderer. However, the Lib would have a limited amount of ammo it could give before it had to reload at a landing pad. The repair capacitor would operate like a heat system on a mana turret. The system can be turned on or off in order to prevent over heating of the repair capacitor. This way, aircraft cannot be continuously repaired mid-air. This is something that could be potentially OP so I am iffy on this aspect.
Things I would love to see:
Give Liberators some form of armor slot where they can choose:
Anti-flak armo (does anyone even run the current composite?)
Heavy kinetic armor (mitigates large caliber and collisions)
Light kinetic armor (mitigates noseguns and vehicle mounted guns like the basilisk)
Explosive armor (mitigates rocket damage)
Directional plated armor (much like tank armor - let the player choose belly or nose armor)
Thus allowing them to specialize a bit better for high altitude, medium altitude or low altitude operations.
Restore the Tankbuster. This went from being a high risk, high reward weapon to being a high risk zero reward weapon. Flying your noze into turrets and tanks should be rewarding, and not just pointless suicide. Why did SOE remove the ability to one clip turrets at point blank range? Was there some outcry for this nerf that we never heard on the forums?
Make the tailgun position have a purpose. Seriously, who wants to sit in the tailgun. Give those weapons some teeth or something.
refresh for lib? sure ... how about :
belly guns cant fire upwards or horizontal only down!
as for additional ES secondary gun's:
Heavy Saron HRB (single shot prenerfed...) / heavy Lancer (with cargeup and heat instead of ammo)
yes i mean heavy... 1.5x dmg of a dalton no bullet drop ES trait double the dalton reload time max certed -1 sec reload
3rd gunner launcher-
select ammo throu certing ammo
thermal vision blocker - shoots a flare that blinds thermal vision bright yellow for a radius of 50m if its in LOS blind it,certs for duration and range
lockon jammer- if shot into a tree infantry in LOS will not aquire lockon untill jammer runs out of time, duration certable.
Utility jammer- stops sundy Repair/ammo utilities for a short amount of time from working certs for duration and range
I would love to see some rebalancing on the lib making them just more fun to play in general. but the main things I want to talk about right now are some faction specific weapons. two types for each faction needed to be added.
NC: Anti Infantry weapon: will have a scatter cannon style auto cannon like the jackhammer except it works long range and explodes. This would have a hold down and spray low damage flak style ammo at the targeted area laying waste to any infantry in the area downside is its a shotgun so the cannon is somewhat random. Next the Anti Armor weapon: A main railgun will have the same damage as the Dalton with a slightly longer reload rate but no splash damage. it should also have the fastest travel speed in the game but be easy to trace where the round came from.
TR: Anti Infantry weapon: it should be a spray weapon that primarily attacks infantry can do light damage to air and light armor but has no effect on heavy armor. Anti Vehicle weapon: should be a low damage lock on or free fire rocket platform that will work like the TR's faction specific launcher and should fire volley's of rockets at enemy armor but do almost no damage to infantry and low splash area.
VS: Anti infantry weapon: Should be like 4 lashers strapped together to make a raining death disco party with a faster bullet velocity than the normal lasher but with a slightly increased splash area good on infantry buy only does light damage to vehicles and air. still only works on light armor class. Anti Vehicle weapon: should be a laser cannon which should be able to be a hold fire weapon so that its ammo is consumed as you hold down the trigger will do more damage the longer you maintain the laser
(not a charge than fire) this should fire and charge as it fires. it will do heavy damage to vehicles and light damage to infantry and air.
All of the anti infantry weapons should have high magazine counts and massive fire rates.
While all the anti vehicle weapons should have high velocities and travel speed.
But low reserve ammo for all so that it makes the libs have to resupply more often and stop them from camping.
I'm not against faction specific weapons, but I'd rather that be a phase 2 after the Liberator itself is in a really good place. I'd just be concerned that faction weapons prior to that would muddy discussions.
And of course, the offtopic.
Was wondering : instead of changing the Liberator as it is for now, just the sugestion, add the Phantasm as personel transport? and/or give the Galaxy capabilites to transport 1-2 tanks? know it is on other Roadmap topic at the moment, i think.
Galaxy looking from the seats the rear "jet motors" they stand still.
The "one man personel fly machine" the "new" weapon/s got to much ammo, my opinion.
Topic related Liberator : a change to the speed and a better way to "zoom", target from pilot seat.
The Pilot : sort of area of influence on minimap that shows the targetable area of the Belly Gunner? or at least a inside look from the pilot seat to have a window showing below area? or a top down view? or a "default middle button" to let the Liberator pilot to move the camera in the "above" render.
Hopefully, some will read all this and get inspired.
Post scriptum : opinion is the empty space.
Edited line from above : "The "one man..... - and some other considerations
Equal XP sharing across all seats and the option for the third seat to switch to a gun port and use their infantry weapons e.g A heavy assault using their LMG and rockets or a sniper using well, their rifle.
Being able to carry a few troops with ejection seats for quick insertions would be rather handy as an option. There are times when a galaxy is too slow and overkill for dropping off say, 2 infantry and a MAX suit
Reduce or better remove damage falloff for shredder. Short range isnt the operational range for the liberator. Its easier to deal with both infantry and vehicles with dalton from most ranges than shredder. At longe range shredder with magazine cert has longer TTK than uncerted dalton. The splash from the later makes it easier to cause damage than landing all those bullets.
A smaller drop option for smaller squads is nice. It is handy if you are running a smaller group of infantry to have another option than the gal. Just make it so that maxes cant get into those lib seats. That will segregate the two vehicles.
I am also in favor of the dumb bomb option for the gal. I am an old Lib pilot from PS 1 and I miss that option. Being able to toggle between cluster and AT bombs is handy. For those that are worried about farming, this is a valid point. The counter to lib farming in PS1 was two things. First was that if the ams was in the open without top cover then the farm was stopped because the ams blew up. You only got maybe 20 kills before that happened even using cluster. Given that the current ams does not have the cloaking field the PS 1 has, buff stealth on the ams so that it cannot be Qed. The second is easier. At bases the terrain models need to have more spots in them with overhead protection. This is in place a many of the bases already. We already have lib farms with the spawn buildings and AMS deployment zones so this would not be any worse than having a zepher lib over the same spot.
One thing to consider as well. These dumb bombs are not as bad as you might think. Even with toss bombing you CANNOT do the latteral manuvers that the you can with the gun mounts. So no flying sideways to avoid the AA. You have to fly into the teeth of the lockons and the busters, headon for at least part of it, and eat the fire. Is also means no Uberlibbing. No daltons to defend the lib from ESF. Just the tailgun. The dumb bomb is then a high or low altitude weapon. Add the bombs to show up on the minimap like in PS1 and that will reduce the farming.
TLDR: Love dumb bombs. Love the rumble seat idea. make the attachments common pool with different effects per faction for flair. Thanks for the hard work Devs.
sorry about spelling.
Bombs please. We PS1 vets miss them terribly. And while you're at it, please add a maximum roll angle for the Dalton, the same as the bombs have, because you shouldn't be able to ignore the laws of physics and fly upside down and sideways while firing your air-to-ground weapon into the sky. If the Liberator is rolling past a certain angle, the belly weapon should not fire. Easy fix for Dalton exploit spam.
My opinion :
-I can't "spot" the Liberator?
-and/or fog of war changed for atlitude way. Might help all "Air" Units.
-Driver GUI : A conical display area under Liberator on "minimap" showing the "Belly gunner view of field".
Change of "Belly Gunner" weapon : example Dalton 2 salves and Zephyr about 6 and increased damage for Zephyr for about 0.2-0.3.
As from the Information : Liberator = Fast Bomb Machine bring back the feeling of Planetside.
"About Planetside" : "Fast Bomb Machine" old way was better. Example Dalton 4 salves and Zephyr about 8 and only targeting below with an increase of 0.2 impact damage and radius on both weapons.
For the "people"who are using the "Liberator" as squad transport "the Phantasm" in "Planetside'' : Personel invisible fly machine.
I'd also like other pilot weapons options such as :
the old concept of Mass Drivers, for long range purposes
Rocket volleys, low damage per rocket, but able to suppress a large area (medium cof, medium splash radius per rocket). relatively slow Rof, average projectile speed, low drop. Can be fired in an alternate mode, firing an entire volley but having a long reload time between each volley
I'd also like to see :
Transport frame (as said above) with light AI / AV guns mounted
Bombs, gunner view benefiting from a different crosshair to predict the bomb trajectory
Better tail gun placement
liberator utility role: can carry 1 tank under its belly
will drastically change gameplay as you can place tanks on top of mountainous terrain, place tanks in the battlefield faster to where its needed.And also more importantly if liberator gets destroyed mid-air the killer gets both liberator and tank kill.
Directional armor: +50% toughness from the bottom/front hemisphere and -25% toughness from the top/rear hemisphere.
I think it's really important for the liberator to have considerably more survivability than it has now.
There is something in tribes 2 that I thought should be a no brainer for this game. Especially because of the scale.
Tribes 2 - Ability for passenger to wear a jamming pack that while activated blocks the ability for it to be seen on radar and for enemies to have the ability to lock on.
- This allows the liberator to have the brief time required to deliver it's payload and get out with minimal damages.
- This can be accomplished by adding an onboard jamming ability. This won't prevent ESFs from tearing the lib down, but it should be a natural predator to things on the ground and right now it is prey.
- I really love the idea of the liberator having rumble seats, allowing players to shoot out from the liberator with their own weapons or rockets. It really gives the gunship feel that I've been craving as I'm not as interesting in pure bombing runs. What would really help this idea is if there was a one way shield on the belly that could project the crew from excessive groundfire, nothing on the sides though.
Anti - Air Gunship -
I've had a lot of fun diving into a dogfight with my liberator whilst my gunner using the shredder- however the weapon falls flat because it's on the bottom and I often need to flip upside down. If you gave the liberator a roof turret as strong as the shredder that has an excellent top hemisphere view, it would be a great addition to an air push. It of course leaves itself open to damage from below.
Empire Specific liberator guns -
Liberators are pretty neutral as far as abilities and customization - having plasma bombs, scatter bombs, and just bombs in general that can distinguish the liberators apart would be excellent. Think of it as putting the vulcan on a sunderer.
Minelayer - With how challenging it is as an engineer to make it into a decent battle and have the giant pizzabox mines be effective, why not change the paradigm around and let the liberator have a minelayer as a gunner seat? Or scrap the gunner and just let the liberator place them.
This vehicle wouldn't be able to defend itself very well but it's core purpose would be for sabotaging lanes with efficiency that other methods lack. You could swoop in with mine layers and cut off an enemies retreat, or stagger their pushes. It's almost more effective to drop a mine field ontop of an armor column than conventional bombing.
omfg...did you say increase or vary the liberators offensive power.... If you know how to fly one and gun properly they are the most outrageously powerful pieces of hardware in the game.
Totally support weapon variation, free fall bombs etc, but after 4,500 hrs (yes) the dalton on the lib and switching from pilot to gunner is the most obviously sad thing about planetside 2 by a mile. Using broad stats does not give indication to times where one or two good crew totally, totally upset a game balance that makes people leave continents and new players laugh and the prospect of relogging.
The same people do the same thing again and again and again with the liberator.
Can we add fuel to the game?
Would give a lot more dimensions.
Would it be that hard?
btw: who decided that the liberator should have the same powered gun as a slow heavy battle tank, realistic, sure...god for the mass game, absolutely not. Track the ranks of those who like the lib, bet its really high and they get an outrageous % of their kills from it.
How about no kills recorded, like overdoing repair or ammo supply....? would force elites to use different hardware?
The liberator dalton carpet bombs the hell out of everyone. It is aimed. I can't see the increased fear of free fall bombs comparatively.
the free fall weapons will do light damage to hardware other than direct hits and will be hard to aim...It arguably should replace the dalton. Dalton is so so so so many times more deadly than free fall weapons.... you can't free fall a bomb upside down and shoot an esf can you?.....
Separate names with a comma.