Mani biolab from Mani fortress

You can thank lattice.

Thanks lattice!

Lattice is a winter crop..take it easy.

Thanks for your input. Say whatever else you need to say, and then please refrain yourself from posting in this thread, as you are only trolling with the purpose to look smart in order to inflate your ego a little more. My thread has nothing to do with anything like that. Therefore cheers and wish you good luck.

Have fun !

I am not trolling. You are a hypocrite.

Let's put this in the simplest terms:
You think that the 3 seconds are a punishment.
Those 3 seconds are a bonus for picking the auto-picked spawn.

You think that Mani Fortress is the only attack angle, which as others also pointed out isn't true.
You want to use the Sunderer near the teleport, which you can, but the spawn system doesn't auto-pick that Sunderer because this is one of the few edge-cases where it could be handy. And don't come with "it doesn't show up", if I place a Sunderer there and then die all the way over at Mani Fortress, which is much farther away and a Lattice-link farther, I can still spawn there.

You say that shorterning the distance was "the worst crap decision", and you completely ignore why it was changed. IE in 95% of the cases you do not want to spawn all the way at the previous base.
So the system change actually doesn't do the opposite of what it's supposed to do. Which you also claimed.

You claim that it will take a total of 10 extra seconds for selecting a different spawn, which is untrue as it takes a maximum of 10 seconds after death before you can spawn everywhere and around 7 seconds before you can spawn at your auto-spawn. You are litterally bemoaning 3 seconds.

Yes you are. You are not posting to help, you only post to try to look smart. You think you appear so, but you are not.

For you those delay seconds might be a gain. For me yes its a punishment, big one and for no reason. Plus pressing lots of buttons that i should not have to. And how more than half of times that is skipped over and it respawns me randomly in places i do not want to be. For you maybe that is smart, maybe its a gain for you, and you will make an argument how challenging that is and what interesting is for players, what a change of scenery. I dont care you want to think like that, your choice. For me its not good, its bad, so piss off.

When you have mani fortress means your faction has Eastern warpgate, so you will certainly not attack from mani tower, and to get mani sattelite lake you will have to take a lot of bases and 99% thats not going to happen and even if it does, lake sattelite is very volatile, and base is lost asap. So yea, mani fortress is pretty much the only place you going to attack it. Well, 99% of the time.Exceptions exists, for the purpose to confirm the rule.

So you think the game should not let me respawn at my sundy near teleport because ... IT IS TOO HANDY ?????????????
THE GAME SHOULD DENY MY RESPAWN AT TELEPORT BECAUSE IT IS TOO CONVENIENT ????????
Now you shown your colors: the engineer vehicle user with 19.1% accuracy does post about biolab fights, likely because he hates biolabs.! You bet your *** i would put a sundy there exactly at teleport for the reason to have a HANDY respwan. Thats why we have sundies i guess, coz they are HANDY. In all cases are handy, not just a few. Otherwise you would have run on the feet to the place you fighting? Running every time is NOT handy. And many more (~half) of biolabs, would have this same problem to one degree or another. You dont know coz you play vehicles by the way you speaking. And the profile with same name that i assume its yours. Btw since you shove it in the face of everyone, i can say i did looked at it and totally made me laugh.

It was changed because they wanted to help pushing the front line faster and make things less stationary. I addressed exactly that. If it would work better on teleports, it would help the attackers of biolab.

The place you fail to comprehend is that nobody can or should tell me what i want. That is the phrase "you think you want to play vanilla wow, but i am telling you that you do not want to do that". Or like "YOU THINK YOU WANT THAT - BUT YOU DO NOT". In the second somebody tells me that he knows better than me what i want, that is a certain proof that person is and arrogant ******. This is an undisputed fact. Its the peak of self importance and arrogance to even think you know what i want - BETTER THAN ME !

I complained the system spawns me where i do not want to be. When you spawn in a place you do not want to be in, the redeploy takes that time. Actually the entire lost time is way longer than that. If you want to count something, count the time it spawns you in random places, because by the 50th time it happens, you gonna need a new keyboard. Yea those feelings go right to the devs.

And for the closure:
@Demigau: SORRY BUT YOU ARE IGNORED FROM NOW ON. I cant deal with the level you are at. And you took alot more of my time than you proved worthy. Since YOU KNOW WHAT I WANT BETTER THAN ME, then you know i want you gone, somewhere in a special place, so read my mind and find out where.

@Devs: Knowing and feeling are different things, really and seriously do this:
1. Put a sundy near Mani Fortress teleport room.
2. Teleport in biolab and die there.
3. Notice how by default you will never respawn at same sundy again near teleport room.
4. DO NOT SKIP THIS STEP: Play like this for few hours, write down your feelings after.

For all rest reading this, i appologize, but the stupidity level is way higher than my patience. The engineer vehicle user with 19.1% accuracy does post about biolab fights, likely because he hates biolabs.

You need help.
Underline works better than colors.

It's 3 seconds.
And its due to not having used the closest sundy to your last known location; Which grants a faster respawn.
Most people know to not let it auto-spawn, due to the possibility of being hijacked to the zone that needs reinforcements.
And for most people you don't want the Sundy at the last base, to the go-to-sundy; As 90% of the time, that is counter productive.
Specific sunderer positions have this issue alone; Which can be solved by moving the sundy.
If the change was reverted, then every other time, people would be sent backwards rather than forwards.
Welcome to using a Sundy at a further distance than generally practical for a spawn point.
Self-created issue.

As well, it doesn't deny respawn.
If it did, you wouldn't have the Sundy at all.

Place a Sundy within the proper distance, anywhere near the room works, and ta da.. entire 'issue' solved.
Without causing the issue to effect the other 90% of cases where it works as intended.

You're the one playing Russian roulette with auto-spawn, and thinking the singular case should cause every other spawn to have the old issue again.

After so many randoms which seem to keep posting crap, lets make some clarifications:
I have ~150.000 kills playing infantry in ps2. This thread was not entitled i need advice to play was it? How come all ***** posting are so sure to look down upon others?
How many hours have posters tried to do what i described and asked to do? None i guess.
=> So why do peoples post such BS but wrap it as if its some kind of great gift. Its not.
IF YOU CBA TO READ, UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE, AND DO WHAT IT TAKES, THEN WHY POST?

GJ Sherlock. If i need nothing = i do not post.
One the bright side, this is probably the only comment to involve a deduction - mental process of any kind - in this thread so far.

"Most ppls know""... Did you made a marketing research? Representative group, sample size, corelation, F test? If not then you dont know anything, you just presume things and present them as true.

Again "most ppls". There are entire sciences and complicated methods designed to find out what ppls want, sociology, statistics, marketing, politics, and many others, and still those fail more often than not. However on this forum everybody knows what everybody else wants, 100% sure. This is nothing short of a miracle.

The biolab is fixed point, the teleport room is fixed point, so you thought hard at this problem. Your brain made an effort long forgotten after those 14+ years of school. Then you figured to let me know that if i put the sundy in between, then i will have to run on foot only half the distance. Even more amazing, your brain thought this is a valid response and thought you should type it in this forum and let me know. Amazing.

Yea, peoples would be sent backwards ... (in time?). It may come as a surprise for you, but peoples are not cattle, are not "sent" anywhere - they choose where to go and what to do. If ******* choose to step on their liberties, then ppls will distance themselives in time. Few years ago were 3-4 hexes with battles 96+ each side almost all the time. Now there are none.

If i want a sundy near teleport room to attack a biolab, that is what i call "practical" or "handy". Lets use the words with the meaning our ancestors already agreed upon. I believe that is the purpose of such teleport room, this is why teleport rooms exists.

I might of created the entire game myself, then i might of lost it and Sony Online took it. So i created this issue myself. My bad.

I insist for my sundy to deny me respawn. But then i would not have a sundy at all. Woau, the chicken and egg logic.
Did this happened to you? I am interested in which order this happens. Your sundy denied you respawn and then went away by itself? Or just went away and after that sent you an e-mail explaining that it would rather go away than give you one more respawn? Are you sure it was a sundy you were thinking of ... ?

I expected that literally too. But actually it does not work smart~pants. That is WHY i posted in the first place. After resisting that crap for quite a long time. Go try it as i said it. OMG another noob ****. Just place the sundy "anywhere near teleport room" and ta da - it does not work.

I tried so hard to find the logic in these sentences, and in the end i have only one thing to say: if George Carlin would live then you would be a great inspiration for him.

Yeap. You understood it perfectly. Not only that i created the problem myself. But I am doing this on purpose, to myself. Obviously...

Pffftttttt... This thread SNR is zero....

1: I am posting to help, just your idea that I'm not does not make it true.
2: Even if I did post to look smart, it wouldn't automatically make what I say untrue. So man up and defend your statements if you can! If you can't, then you know I'm right.

And as a bonus: For someone who refuses to read textwalls you are loving them yourself.

And who's problem is that? Yours! Those seconds were added specifically as a bonus for picking the quickspawn. And making 3 seconds a "big punishment", even though previously you said it was a whopping 10 seconds... Really, your feelings don't make things true automatically.

Now I'm not saying "just because it's a feeling/emotion, it's not viable". On the contrary, games are all about feelings and emotions and should accomodate that. But there are limits, such as completely going full insane on the devs and this system because you misunderstand why the changes were made because of an edge case scenario? And claiming that I supposedly didn't experience it even though I just said I had?
I already gave you the solution to the problem. Which is not "revert it back to the old system", which is a step back for the obvious reasons I already gave you. It's "simply let players select a preferred spawn". done, now even if your preferred spawn is 500+m away you can still spawn there!

The randomly spawning in places you don't want to be has been fixed for ages. And "pressing lots of buttons I should not have to"? Let's not look at the complete lack of value of that statement, but let's look at what is going to save more button presses!
Spawning at Mani Fortress Sunderer is an edge case. Most players will be fighting at other bases, with spawns close enough that they want to spawn at the auto-selected spawn. If you added your system, these players would all have to reselect their spawn each time the old spawn is obsolete, which is a lot more players who have a problem with it and more button presses total!

No that's not "trying to sound smart", that's just ripping a dumb sentiment apart.

Well dear Nabtwat, I know this is hard to grasp and all, but you don't need to own Mani Lake or Mani Tower to use them as points of attack. You can place Sunderers nearby the bases, preferably nearby the jumppads or the gravlifts from that direction, and use those as an alternative attack route. This at least increases the amount of ways to get on the airpads and means you have at least one teleporter room close enough to an entrance to attack it from two sides and reduce the effect of the chokepoint.

Oh dear god you are stupid.
No, read the damn sentence again! It's and edge case where it could be handy. Meaning It's a rare occurence that the devs shouldn't take into account because of the negative impact it would have, IE forcing players to spawn at the previous base which is in most cases a bad thing.

And as I've already mentioned about 3 or 4 times now, I gave you the damn solution. Allow players to select their preferred spawn. Done!
Now ask yourself: If I did not want you to respawn on your Sunderer "because it's too handy", Why would I give you a solution that's even better than yours because it has more range and less RNG?

Seriously your reading comprehension is about zero now.

Ah, thinking of arguments that I never said! It has began!
No I haven't said you hate biolab fights. As for my accuracy: The PS2 statsite adds repair ticks to accuracy, and since you never "hit" with a repair gun your accuracy drops like a rock. Check Fisu or Dasanfall for true accuracy: http://ps2.fisu.pw/player/?name=demigan&show=statistics

Seriously, if you checked my weapon stats on the PS2 site you would easily notice this. My lowest accuracy weapon is 17%, but that's a weapon I fired 12 shots with and got one kill looking for an infiltrator so the moment I start using it that accuracy will go up to the usual 30 something %. But ofcourse you only looked at the basic page and then said "why look further, I'm just going to up the ante with inane bullcrap and assume the guy is a vehicle user! Not that that kind of argument matters in the discussion, but trying to discredit my opponent is much easier than actually reading things and creating actual arguments! Yeah!".

Yo mister ****, I already said I also put my Sunderers there. I even said that I want to spawn on my Sunderers from larger ranges than you. So if anything I would have more reason to want easier spawning there than you... And that's why I already gave you the damn solution, not that you care or read it.

The reason this is an edge-case is because it practically only applies at Biolabs, and not all biolab teleporters are too far even!

And why on earth would you run there? You can still spawn on your Sunderer. It may take 3 seconds longer, but if it's a better spawn it's definitely shorter to walk there. Or is this more inane bullcrap based on the assumption I don't want you to spawn on handy Sunderers because... No reason? Oh wait, here's the reason: "Because from the way I'm speaking I play vehicles". Yeah that's a good argument right there! /sarcasm.

But by all means, post your own character, then I can laugh, and I'm going to laugh about more than a wrongly listed accuracy stat.

You did not adress "exactly that", you adressed it in a single edge-case: Biolabs and specific far-off teleporters. In the meantime your idea would be worse for all the other scenario's, you know, without a biolab?

Oh this is rich you hypocrite! First you claim things like "you are a vehicle player" based on a single (wrong) statistic you looked up, then you blame me for telling you what to think?

No I didn't tell you what you should want, I told you how the game works: In 95% of the cases the previous base is not the one people will want to spawn at (and in fact vehicle players would be the one's who want to spawn there, annihilating your idea that vehicle players don't care to have an auto-spawn far away). They want to spawn at the closest spawn.
So I'm not an arrogant whatever, if anything you are the arrogant whatever living in your own world.

Eh, how about "check where the hell you are going to spawn beforehand"? If you simply pick the auto-spawn then you've lost nothing and gained 3 seconds, if you pick something else, you've just prevented a 10 second redeploy!

And maybe you should do something about that rage you have there, breaking keyboards all the time.

aaand full ******! Congratulations! (could someone quote this post so he can read it anyway?)

I already did things like this, there's no problem here.
But I really love this sentence: "For all rest reading this, i appologize, but the stupidity level is way higher than my patience."
Yes, your stupidity level is way higher than your patience.
Also please check how to make sentences. "A vehicle user does not post about biolab fights"? You know that this sentence means I don't post anything, rather than post in your thread about biolab fights, right?

As some of us have thousands more?
Kills alone aren't even a proper meter
- A guy playing for 5 minutes, could get 0 kills or 30 due to being in the right place at the right time regardless of skill.

I doubt any of us send hours placing a Sundy, when we know the range that it works.
As well, those of us whom do place sunderers commonly, do not place sunderers where the point of it being there is nullified.
This is called practicality; You do not place a Sundy, where it doesn't achieve any intended purpose.
You place it, where it works.

The Bio lab's entries are all fixed points; And there are more than one specific base's teleport room.
Said base as well, as multiple positions that fix this unintentional issue you have.
Which if 'solved' creates the more pressing issue onto every other sunderer position.
Which is worse? One case, or thousands of cases? Obviously better to have the one exception to it working properly.

Backwards.
As in, rather to the frontline, easily back to the last base instead.
You do recall why the range was changed right?

The Teleport room works as intended.
Your positioning of the Sunderer, does not work to your intended use.
You are the source of your own problem really, as you created the exception case to the system working properly.
Congrats!

To properly deny your sundy from functioning, get outside the Sunderer's deploy range.
To deny it from being the first auto-spawn location, place it outside the range from your intended battle-zone.
You control the Sunderer placement, not the system.

The distance between the room & bio-lab is what matters here.
Place the sunderer in the cross-over diagram where the range of both intercept; Magically it works.
This is how every single soul who places Sunderers properly does it.
You get the Sunderer's range, and the distance from it you estimate the battle to take you; And place it down.
That's if you want to ensure easy spawning at it.
Mind you, You void the entire issue by manually spawning like I, and many many others do for simplicity.
As either way, you have time before spawning: Might as well look at the map, and double check the spawn spot.


Rather than say the system isn't working due to a hedge case, look at the facts.
Your positioning is the very reason, this hedge case exists.
No one else has raised this issue, since the range was ranged.

Auto-spawn is publicly known, and known on this site to easily send you off onto the barren map of Hossin instead of the sunderer 6 feet behind you.
If not, then consider yourself lucky.
You have multiple seconds in-between spawns already, 3 seconds ain't gonna kill you.
Use the time, to double-check the map, and confirm your spawn.
It works out better than hitting auto-spawn blind from the death screen.

Wow... I can't believe this is getting blown out of proportion this much.

I know this exact scenario. Let's say that the devs fix this edge-case, and dying in Mani Bio Lab will matrix your quick-spawn to the teleporter room sundy. Those who park their sundy under the NE airpad or next to the Mani Fortress jump pad will have the so-called "punishment" passed onto them.

This thread is nothing but a big "me first" tantrum. Over 5 seconds, no less.


Also,
I don't always agree with Demigan but my goodness he gets all the strawman arguments thrown at him, it's crazy. Do people just skim and cherrypick a sentence they don't like?

However self-serving a like to that was... Thanks.

Back in the day, the normal respawn timer is what you were experiencing. Everybody had that same time to wait in order to respawn.

However, they gave a -3 second respawn timer to those people spawning closely to where they had died. From what I can gather, the sundy you were trying to spawn at was outside of the auto-spawn feature, making you wait for the normal time.

Thank you for your post, really.That is what i was thinking i could get. Instead of ppls trying to discuss lattice for some unknown reason that has nothing to do with op, or engineers ***** trying to teach infantry play, or those wtih beacon at vehicle terminal trying to teach respawn virtutes. And thank you for noticing that i am not actually arguing and you did not argued on your end.

You made a good point. Great in fact. So the 3 sec delay that i am getting comes from a bonus not a penalty per se. Although i would add that it is still a delay, and delay is delay, and on top of that, the original intent or its creation does not matter to me, only its effect. And the delay itself is not a bummer, but the other complications aswell. But lets get past that.

Let's see if we can agree on something. A fact is that respawn distance does not match some of the distances in game, regardless if that is intentional or not, it just "is". Like distances between some biolabs and some of their teleports room, and also a few cases of bases that are further apart.But the bummer is when the game shows you how nice it is to have a sundy that works near a teleport you want, and then, like in the case of mani, WHEN YOU NEED IT MOST - it will not work anymore: quite a dissapointment.

In other words, WHY some teleports room should work like that, as intended, and others should not work in the same way. Only the fact that half do work as intented, and half do not, that is really a complication and a dissapointment, and something a new player might find it hard to get its head around it. Like there is not enough of that already in this game.

Now lets see what are the consequences. I will claim that the thing about "dynamically pushing the front line" is mostly a scam, e.g. bad argument. If there is a measure that is imposed equally on both sides and has equal consequences on each, that can cancel itself - in the context of a world where only competitive advantage is what matters.

And another fact is, adding "dynamism" to front line means basically adding dynamism to something that is mostly static, which is to an extent a bit nonsensical. Coz i see front line being mostly static, more if we speak of a biolab, in that you might die 50 times or 100 times or more before the front line will actually change. Now if i die 50 times with a 3 sec delay (penalty or not, the competitive advantage matters), so if i die and keep getting that delay as attacker, or even if the defenders get a bonus, then it should be clear (even for the most challenged) that this measure is giving the attackers a disadvantage in comparison with those defending. Like defending was not easy enough. And following this logic, giving more competitive advantage to defenders is pretty much against the front line dynamism. So you see, the thing you said about the delay being a bonus instead of a penalty - IT DOES NOT MATTER why the difference is created, what matters is the competitive advantage this gives the defenders. Parents raise kids with the impression that intention matters for a kid that is meant to make mistakes. In reality, the "intention" does not matter - only the results do.

And when front line changes, you do not need some system to actually push you redeploy somewhere else, ONE TIME. You can then redeploy manually ONE TIME - otherwise you remain alone in an empty area. Who wants to play will redeploy. So this is the level of crazy into itself. All this 3 sec delay to EACH and EVERY DEATH is justyfied by the fact that this measure is in place to HELP me redeploy ONE TIME only, and that is ONCE after we WON the biolab, and IF we win. So this measure and all the deplays to all other deaths is justified for the purpose of only ONE auto redeploy pushing the front like (which might not happen if we do not win the biolab). Yea to me this kind of justification looks quite crazy, like the dog ate my homework crazy.

Now that delay is not all there is. Its the times you resurect in the middle of nowhere just to die coz you forgot to press E. And those engineers in vehicles with a spawn beacon at vehicle terminal will not understand this. The infantry play in biolab differs, my style is with a shotgun, run beyond the shield, try kill 1-2-3 enemies before you die, and mostly you die before making it back to spawn room to reload again. So it takes maybe like 10-20 seconds @ average life expectancy. Now another **** is going to say "self created issue" just do smth different. WHY should i do smth different, the game pretends to allow me play this way. Then those 3 sec can become relevant in a way that a ****** with 19% infantry accuracy which sits inside a tank with invulnerability will never understand. On top of that, add 1/3rd of time you wake up in the middle of the field coz a BR5 thought that was a good place to deploy a sundy at in between 3 enemy tanks.

Now understand this: what i say is free of the usual faction hate fallacy-idiocy that fills up most players mind. I have 90+ and 100+ characters on each faction, well geared and etc. I can RELOG alot of times, and i usually do relog just for that, to play both sides. But its alot boring to play defense and usually better for me to attack most of times.

So i do not care about factions, winning or loosing a hex, i play infantry for my pleasure alone, lone wolf. So my view on these things should be fairly unbiased - only how it is for real. At least "should" - you tell me.

I think the tl;dr that you should come away with from this thread is that the system isn't necessarily designed to work the way you want it to. Due to a series of coincidences and the accumulation of features, it can work in the way you want when the stars are right; and, in this case, it did work that way enough times for you to expect that behavior as the "correct" behavior.

The distinction between lone wolf play and cooperative play actually is a bias that the community considers important when discussing features.

To the matter at hand, how i play it is irrelevant. It does not change the advantage it creates for defenders like described. I mentioned it solely for the purpose to be clear what i want to do and what hindering the system is.

The only difference would be, a squad leader would notice the crap situation and would move away from there in 5 - 10 minutes tops, and i seen that alot.

If peoples would give some time to think first about what they want to type ... that would be great. I do not need another guy trying to explain how lattice system works or explaining some other random crap/stuff completely unrelated to this subject. Who has something good, type it - otherwise save those keyboard strokes.

Apparently:
- teleport rooms are "accumulation of features"
- placing a sundy near a teleport works "half of time" hence you conclude it is "incorrect behaviour" in your opinion.

But:
- i did actually played for 1-2 years with SOE and i remember when those things worked EXACTLY that way, 100% all of them. DBG broke this.
- if you do not see that it was actually by design for teleports room to work this way, then: public school system has failed you too.

Dear lord, I post the same argument several times, but when AllRoundGoodGuy says it, its suddenly clear to him?

Anyway, most of what he says seems irrelevant or misinformed. And the actual solution, letting players select a preferred spawn and disable the automatic spawn option for as long as you have it active/the spawn is available, solves all his problems and would be better for the playerbase overall.

You don't really understand.
You have a singular base, where certain sunderer positions do not link as the closest sunderer
- and this assumes allies have no sunderers at the Bio Lab... like none, as if a single one exists;
Then yes, your specific sundy ain't the closest.

If the change is reverted, then every single other sundy position now has this problem.

The Teleport system is independent of sunderers...
It is a rapid-transport or link between two points, it doesn't check for, nor care about where those that use it spawn from.
Placing a Sunderer there, was never a designed part of its use or function.
Two different systems, brought together solely by Players.

The design of the Teleport room, is to transport infantry that enter the pad to the other pad.
It isn't designed to provide sunderer spawns the ability to transport infantry vast distances...
That's just what players have done, using the two different systems.

Your hedge case has a problem, with specific sunderer locations when using the room's teleport.
That isn't related to any actual issue with Sunderers, Teleport rooms or similar; that's a player caused positioning problem.

I'm talking more about the subtleties of the spawn system that have changed over the years.
That's what this conversation is all about - the spawn system will change. Moreover, nothing was ever intended to guarantee a particular setup like a deployed S-AMS near the teleporter shanty and jump pad, save for possibly the no-deploy zones. If you are having problems with the no deploy zones, then the conversation is different and we'd need to take a few steps back.
For that matter ...

Teleporter rooms and Sunderers share no special relationship in the code. Teleporters, Sunderers, and the quick-spawn system also share no special relationship in the code. Heck, I'll go as far as to say that there's no special case that calls out Mani Fortress.

Also, I graduated from parochial schools, so I'll not have you use me to casually insult the public education system, thank you very much.