[Suggestion] Making Jackhammer more viable against full-auto shotguns and heavy guns

For the entire post I will assume you're running extended mags for all shotguns including the Jackhammer. (I don't understand why you wouldn't) For the auto shotguns this means 10 rounds per mag; for the Jackhammer it is 12.

I've toyed around with the Jackhammer for about 3 months now and know pretty much all there is to know about the weapon. And in that time, I've come to understand why there's people complaining about how the NC "doesn't have a heavy weapon." Often I find Light Assaults with full-auto shotguns instagibbing me while I'm trying to drill away at people with the Jackhammer (excuse the pun).

In semi-automatic mode, the Jackhammer deals less damage than the full-auto shotguns at a slower fire rate in a way tighter spread than all other shotguns. The Jackhammer is more comparable in stats to other semi-auto shotguns, again with the disadvantage of lower damage in CQC and tighter spread. The tradeoff is obviously that the Jackhammer is more effective at range, with damage falloff reaching 70 at 30m which is roughly twice the damage at twice the range.

Here the problem lies in that the Jackhammer is a shotgun; it is very hard to land enough pellets, in both semi-auto and burst mode, on a medium range target to kill them fast enough before they shoot at you with a better weapon choice for the range, which is pretty much all other primary weapons. With slug ammo on semi-auto shotguns you have the ability to snipe people, given you can deal with the slow muzzle velocity. In short, the Jackhammer is a subpar midrange weapon in my opinion, and I would readily grab any LMG, even most SMGs over the Jackhammer.

In burst mode it takes 1 second between the 3-burst to take out more people. That means to unload all 4 bursts, you need around 3.7 seconds plus a reload time of 3.7 seconds. The full-auto shotguns, which can unload all 10 shots in 2.3 seconds plus a reload time of 3.8 seconds. Assuming you land all pellets, the full-auto shotguns can kill more and faster in CQC than the Jackhammer in burst mode. Compared to semi-auto shotguns, the Jackhammer does offer 2 extra shots with negligible damage difference since it takes 2 shots to kill, but there is a caveat. The tight spread on the Jackhammer makes it harder to hit close-range targets; the wide spread of other shotguns, with the addition of more damage per bullet, make them much more forgiving. In other words, the only thing that makes the Jackhammer unique is also its weakest feature in CQC.

In comparison to the other heavy weapons, the Jackhammer's disadvantage becomes more apparent. The Mini-Chaingun can practically replace a LMG in many situations, given you know how to remedy the spin-up time. The Lasher is VERY effective at crowd-control and can deal damage at range without the need to aim as much as you would with an LMG. They do their jobs extremely well, and the Jackhammer does pale in comparison.

I don't think the Jackhammer should get slug ammo though because it defeats the point of a tight-spread long-range shotgun. Moreover, the full-auto shotguns do not need a nerf since they are very situational to begin with.

As a possible solution, I think DBG should decrease the burst to 2 shots (still enough for a single-burst kill at CQC with the added bonus of less recoil in midrange burst) and decrease the interval between bursts just a bit, somewhere between 0.7 and 1 second. That way the Jackhammer would be slightly more effective at midrange and be much more viable at CQC.

Just my thoughts here. I'm interested in what the other factions think of the Jackhammer as well.

Most people think the Jackhammer is fine as is or OP because it's a shotgun and it's HA exclusive.

The Jackhammer is viable in CQC just as any shotgun but it requires more aim because of the smaller CoF and pellet spread so your going to hit hard or not hit at all.

What all shotguns are missing is interchangeable ammo, why am I always stuck with all slugs of all pellets, can't I carry 50/50 of each. And different choke modes, in PS1 some shotguns had different choke selection so their CoF / Pellet spread and RoF would change according to what range you want to set it at

I am not saying the Jackhammer isn't viable in CQC. I'm saying the other shotguns, especially full-auto shotguns, do a much better job. People call it OP because they get mad that they get OHKO'd in 1v1 without a chance to fight back, but I can accomplish the exact same thing with rocket launchers with the same reliability (surprisingly enough) and no one calls them OP.

My suggestion is to make it more comparable to other shotguns and heavy guns. It will retain the OHKO potential so it will have the same upper hand in 1v1 combat. The other shotguns outperform it in group CQC, especially full-auto shotguns; reducing the interval between bursts would mitigate that. In midrange combat most other primary and some secondary weapons outperform the Jackhammer; 2-round burst would give more recoil control and the reduction in chamber time would make up for the loss of a 3rd burst round.

I've seen a LA drop behind 5 people and kill them all with auto shotguns. I've gone as HA behind 5 people and mowed them all down with a semi-auto shotgun. I've also, as a HA with Jackhammer, gone behind 5 people, do 1 burst, and get shot to death while chambering.

Jackhammer is fine. Biggest magazine, best range of all the shotguns. It's not a straight upgrade, it's just another option in the arsenal, and it's already perfectly competitive.

Having often been on the receiving end my perception is that the Jackhammer is much much better than normal shotguns. It has that farther reach without requiring slugs, a larger mag, and a harder punch.

Can you at least put slugs on it? If so, the only reasonable complaint is that it's not viable at longer ranges, but then again that's not the point of the gun. I could easily complain about our Lasher not being very good at 1v1 up close either, but that's just not the point of the gun. So what's really the problem, I'm at a loss here?

There were only three shotgun-things in Planetside Classic: the common pool Sweeper and the NC-specific Jackhammer and Scattercannon MAX Exo-suit. Standard ammo and armor-piercing ammo were availabe only to the Sweeper and the Jackhammer. There was no slug ammo. The Jackhammer had its characteristic and brutal triple shot mode (ka-chunk ka-chunk ka-chunk).

Ironically, it was the Scattercannon that had three spread modes, allowing for improved close to far(ther) ranges. I'm sorry that I can't give you workable numbers on that.

Personally I disagree to any changes to the Jackhammer. Its a unique weapon and many players even call it OP as you can instagib most opponents at close range. IMO the issue may be that it requires the user to adapt a specific playstyle - the JH is supreme against single targets at CQC, but can be outnumbered, and requires some aim. Thus you'll need to take cover or engage opponents one at a time.
Essentially this post calls for the adapting the jackhammer to a different playstyle. That's not the point of changing weapons specs!
If you deem that other shotguns are better - be my guest and use those.

Harder punch is only accomplished by the 3-burst. With extended mags, you're left with 4 burst shots. As the one shooting I'm left with a dilemma between harder punch and magazine size, never both.

Let's look at the point of heavy guns. I'm under the impression that it's crowd control, creating an area-of-denial for infantry to push past, but obviously it's also faction specific. Lasher accomplishes both goals. Mini-chaingun is a rapid fire machine gun that can mow down multiple people before its magazine is depleted, so it's also there.

Then what's the point of the Jackhammer, the NC's heavy gun? Why are we left with something only good for OHKOing one person and slightly decent for shotgunning while the other factions get tools for dealing with a large amount of people? Sure in semi-auto mode you can take advantage of the extra 2 shots and tight spread for dealing with more people, but LMGs accomplish the same thing. If you're picking off people from a distance, slug ammo and/or discipline with other shotguns can accomplish the same thing.

What's the unique role of the Jackhammer then?

Also sorry on the wrong math, according to Wrel it's 0.65 seconds of chamber time. That's 3 seconds to fire off 4 bursts. It's still way longer than the 2.3 seconds to empty a full auto shotgun's clip.

Quick timing from Wrel's video shows 0.26 seconds for the 3-round burst to complete. At 260 RPM the automatic shotguns can fire 2 rounds for a THKO in 2.31 seconds. Again, auto shotguns by my account are pretty much equally effective in 1v1 CQC as the Jackhammer provided you have good aim with both.

Well, if you hit your target with a burst shot, you will will over auto-shotties. Also keep in mind that the jackhammer has much longer effective range.
Anway, if you know you're going for a lot of cqc auto shottie is usually better.
If you know you will be fighting mid-long range the lmgs are better.
If you will be fighting enemies at both close and medium range, the jackhammer is perfect. Versatility is what the jackhammer brings to the table, you have the power of either a semi-auto or a pump action shotgun, while still retaining respectable firepower at medium range.

My 50 cents:

1) Smaller CoF is the main advantage of the gun, yes, you have to aim better at point blank with it, no it doesn't make it inferior to the other shotguns. It gives up ease of use for range, and for a shotgun even 10 metres is a massive increase in range.

2) Bigger mag size is a big deal.

3) You say it's a garbage mid-range weapon (well of course, it's a shotgun) but you say that the MCG can replace an LMG? Nope, MCG is just as CQC oriented.

4) The only heavy weapon which is unique is the Lasher, and even then, it simply changes the way you use it, not the role behind it. It's still a gun you use to kill infantry, just like the Jack and MCG. Heavy weapons are just bigger, beefier guns, they don't have to have any special purpose behind them.

The Jack is amazing. Needs no alterations please.

If you want to talk versatility then keep your LMG. The Jackhammer is highly situational, and you will find this to be true if you use it enough.

Please don't take things out of context. I said the MCG can replace LMGs in many situations, not all. We all agree it's not very good at medium range.

The point I'm trying to make is "What's the purpose of a heavy weapon if regular weapons do a similar or better job at what it's intended to do?" We get that all guns are for killing, but each gun is assigned a "role" in this game. Crossbows hold a very different role from pistols, scout rifles are different from sniper rifles, and so on. They all have a specialization behind them. This includes the MCG, which is dropping a lot of people as fast as a gun can, and obviously the Lasher.

Yes, by your definition the Jackhammer is better than semi-auto shotguns with the 2 extra ammo, tighter spread and better range. But it does not have a specialization from what I can tell, even with its unique 3-burst, especially since other shotguns can use slug ammo for medium range use and the full-auto shotguns can equal or out-damage the Jackhammer.

Also, at 1:00.

Maybe the Jackhammer is not as flexible as the MCG and the Lasher but it's a great weapon. In my opinion it's rather underrated.

I've auraxed the Jack in its current state, and it was by far the most enjoyable Aurax run I've done overall. It's also not "extremely situational" I brought it to every fight and I managed an overall KD of 2 with it. Sometimes you kill quick, sometimes it takes a few extra shots, but I've outgunned LAs with Carbines out to 35m about. Try doing that with the other Shotguns. It's accuracy and range outperforms the "high accuracy high range" semi autos, its capacity is equal to the "high capacity" semi autos, it has a unique fire mode which works really well against MAXes. What more do you want? Its easily the best ESHW. If your Jack dude is getting killed by Chaingun dudes or Lasher dudes, then your dude must practice his aim or tactics or something. There is no shame in admitting that you could be playing better, we're all adults here, you don't need to impress anyone.

That was my point. He said the Jackhammer is versatile, I said it's highly situational.

Crossbows' specialization is thus "covert high-damage sidearms" with a trait of near-silent fire, high bullet drop and low muzzle velocity. Commissioner's specialization is different from crossbows, and this is accomplished with different traits. Scout rifles' specialization is medium-range combat. MCG's specialization is mowing down people, with a trait of high RoF, and so on. AI/AV/AA weapons provide general differentiation, with each weapon role (assault rifle, LMG, etc) providing a general role, and with each weapon comes a specialization, which is accomplished by a trait. Use a weapon against its specialization (e.g. Rangers on infantry) and it becomes next to useless.

Specialization is "purpose", trait is "method."

So do slugs. I'm repeating myself now.

I don't know, I just find LMGs to be more efficient with things and other shotguns better in most situations. Not to say I'm bad with the Jackhammer, but I do get pissed when I trade kills with a LA carrying a full auto shotty when the Jackhammer should come out on top. Moreover I think it should have a little more differentiation from other shotguns.

I meant interchangeable ammo, just like in PS1 but since shotguns only have 2 ammo types, we need interchangeable between Slugs and Pellets.

Also I always though the Triple Shot in PS1 changed choke and spread, but then all I always did was camp corners in 3rd person 1 shotting everything.

Then I misread, what the JH gives up compared the other shotguns in pure CQC it gains in versitility, it can have both Semi or Burst [acting like PA ] and it also has the tightest CoF and Pellet Spread of shotguns, it is fine as a shotgun but shotguns themselves could use some changes.

Right, I won't argue about definitions. Just for me, spec is AI, AA or AV aka what the guns physically can and can't do. Everything else is details.

What I'm saying is though, Jackhammer is different enough from other shotguns to exist. Longer buckshot range and bigger mags in exchange for CQC power. A firm, solid sidegrade. I don't really see why that's unreasonable.

when i first started the game i named my character HAMM3RT1ME, this was before i even knew there was a weapon called Jackhammer, but once i tried it, i instantly fell in love, it didn't take me long to aurax it and now i've got over 1,600 kills with it,
i've also auraxed 5 other shotguns and i'm working on auraxing the directive shotgun and the shotgun pistol Magscatter!
needless to say i'm a bit barmy about shotguns and have "a little bit" of experience with them

now my views of jackhammer?
it is the lord and savior, the king of kings, the ruler of all shotguns!
like all standard shotguns it is a 2HK, but it has more ammo, longer range and can act like the hardest hitting pump action in the game using the burst mode, without the need for the single shot reloads!
i love love love it!

imho all of the heavy faction specific guns are pretty perfect.