[Suggestion] Make NC weaponry all about power

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by MichaelMoen, Jul 14, 2020.

  1. Campagne

    One of these days I should make a proper spreadsheet in Google Docs, but most people wouldn't really care I think. That's okay, I guess.

    [Here are the three factions' weapons according to damage models:

    LMGs:

    NC............................................................TR............................................................VS
    MGR-L1 Promise...... -- 143/698..............MG-H1 Watchman. -- 125/857.................Orion VS54... -- 143/750
    EM1........................... -- 143/659..............T9 CARV............... -- 143/750.................SVA-88......... -- 143/698
    LA1 Anchor................ -- 167/600..............MSW-R................. -- 143/750.................Pulsar LSW... -- 143/698
    EM6........................... -- 167/600..............T9 CARV-S........... -- 143/698.................VX29 Polaris. -- 143/659
    GD-22S..................... -- 167/577...............T16 Rhino............. -- 143/659.................VE-H Maw.... -- 167/600
    NC6S Gauss SAW S. -- 167/577..............T32 Bull................. -- 143/652.................Flare VE6..... -- 167/577
    NC6 Gauss SAW....... -- 200/500..............TMG-50................. -- 167/577.................Ursa.............. -- 167/550

    Assault Rifles:

    NC............................................................TR............................................................VS
    GR-22........................ -- 143/800..............TORQ-9............... -- 125/857..................H-V45..................... -- 143/800
    Carnage AR............... -- 143/750..............MG-A1 Arbalest... -- 125/690..................Terminus................ -- 143/769
    NC1 Gauss Rifle........ -- 167/600..............Cycler TRV.......... -- 143/845...................Pulsar VS1............. -- 143/698
    Gauss Rifle Burst....... -- 167/600..............TAR..................... -- 143/800...................Equinox VE2 Burst. -- 143/698
    Gauss Rifle S............. -- 167/577..............T1 Cycler............. -- 143/750...................Equinox VE2.......... -- 143/652
    Reaper DMR.............. -- 200/500..............T1B Cycler........... -- 143/750...................CME....................... -- 143/652
    NC-9 A-Tross.............. -- 200/469.............T1S Cycler........... -- 143/698...................VE-A Lacerta.......... -- 167/566
    MGR-A1 Vanquisher... -- 200/451.............SABR-13............... -- 167/600..................Corvus VA55.......... -- 167/550

    Carbines:

    NC............................................................TR............................................................VS
    GD-7F......................... -- 143/845.............LC2 Lynx............. -- 125/909...................Serpent VE92... -- 143/845
    MGR-C1 Charger........-- 143/652.............TRAC-5............... -- 143/750....................VX6-7............... -- 143/800
    AF-4A Bandit.............. -- 167/632.............TRAC-5 Burst..... -- 143/750....................Zenith VX-5...... -- 143/723
    AF-19 Mercenary........ -- 167/600.............LC3 Jaguar......... -- 143/750....................Solstice VE3..... -- 143/698
    Gauss Compact Burst. -- 167/600............TRAC-5 S........... -- 143/698....................Solstice Burst.... -- 143/698
    Gauss Compact S....... -- 167/577............T5 AMC............... -- 143/652....................Solstice SF....... -- 143/652
    Razor GD-23............... -- 167/550............MG-C1 Kindred... -- 167/698....................Pulsar C........... -- 167/577
    AC-X11........................ -- 200/500............HC1 Cougar........ -- 167/577....................VE-C Horizon... -- 56x3/600

    SMGs:

    NC............................................................TR............................................................VS
    Blitz GD-10.... -- 125/845..........................SMG-46 Armistice. -- 125/896.................Sirius SX12. -- 125/845
    AF-4 Cyclone. -- 167/652.........................PDW-16 Hailstrom. -- 125/800.................Eridani SX5. -- 143/750
    MGR-S1......... -- 200/522.........................MG-S1 Jackal........ -- 167/600.................VE-S Canis.. -- 167/550-667

    Sidearms:

    NC............................................................TR............................................................VS
    LA3 Desperado...... -- 167/500.................T4 AMP.......... -- 100/937.........................Spiker................ -- 167/480
    NC4 Mag-Shot....... -- 200/351.................TX1 Repeater. -- 112/845.........................Beamer VS3...... -- 167/451
    LA8 Rebel.............. -- 250/261.................TS2 Inquisitor. -- 143/531.........................Manticore SX40. -- 200/351
    NC08 Mag-Scatter. -- 100x6/133..............TX2 Emperor.. -- 167/400........................Cerberus............ -- 250/300

    Source: http://planetside.wikia.com/wiki/Weapons

    As one can see, the NC generally has the same number of different damage models as the TR most often in the same ratios. The VS however does consistently lack an additional damage model compared to the NC & TR having almost exclusively variations on the 143/750 damage model. It is difficult to definitively say the NC has a more varied arsenal than either the TR, though they do have fewer or the same weapons of each type of damage model compared to the TR. The VS does lack variance in their damage models.

    There are several approximate copies between the factions, such as the Promise--CARV-S--SVA-88, GR-22--TAR--H-V45, and Razor--Cougar--Pulsar weapon sets.] --Campagne

    I agree that the ability to use a weapon is more important than the weapon's raw stats, but we cannot deal in absolutes, in my opinion. The Vanquisher relies on the 200 damage bullets to actually be effective at range. If the max damage was only 167 instead it'd be an accurate and precise piece of junk with a long TTK despite the strengths. Could it still be good? Of course! With headshots at least. It wouldn't be as good as it is now, needing and extra burst in best-case scenarios.

    The FSM is listed as 2x but honestly it's still so low it doesn't really matter. Even with a 4x scope I've never had much issue with recoil. It's really the RPM and burst-fire itself which restricts its usefulness.

    The Horizon makes me yearn for better shotguns. If they can force pellets to fire in set positions we could have RNG-free shotguns that still required short range and user accuracy to be effective. But yes, flat zeros across the board for CoFs is nothing to scoff at, yet again so few people seem to know or care. :<
    • Up x 3
  2. Demigan

    You can calculate the amount of shots per second/minute fired.
    This can be used to calculate DPS, but also to calculate Bloom per second (BPS).
    With those two numbers you can divide DPS by the BPS to find a bloom per damage per second^2 number. The lower the number the worse it is (since more bloom means the total number is lower) and the higher the number the better it is (since you have less bloom per damage point).

    You could add things like starting COF to complete the picture. I did a few on LMG's and what I found was that the BPS was the same for many weapons of the same range category regardless of damage model.
  3. DarkStarAnubis

    Thanks Demigan - I have tried a few times to come up with a schematic representation of a weapon taking in account DMG, ROF, COF, Bloom, Recoil, ... but failed miserably every time.

    The part about DMG and ROF is easy. You may debate whether TTK should be discrete (e.g. based on an integer number of rounds) or not, but it mostly affect high DMG/low RoF weapons, same reason why those weapons suffer more when dealing with nano-weave protected targets.

    But when you start to put COF and Bloom then you are quickly lost. From a theoretical standpoint you could say something like "At a given distance of <x> meters the target (head or torso, head far smaller of course) has <y> angular size so as long as Bloom + initial Cof does not exceed <y> you are good to go. Keep firing. Or stop firing if you have too many misses, recover recoil and restart firing." That already would change TTK computation quite drastically because those would be far more realistic, introducing the need of bursting (longer or shorter burst depending on the weapon and the engagement distance).

    However, there is no simple way. I discussed this topic with Iridar (back when he was still with us) and he said he had also tried to explore the CoF realm without success. Apparently bullets have an angular size themselves, and may not be always the same. There were theories about the fact sniper rifle bullets are somehow "bigger" to compensate all the errors/interpolations/delays/... related to long-range firing, otherwise we would never hit an head at 3-400m.

    This without talking about the VS UA, whose mechanism is 100% unknown aside from the fact the bullets are bigger (how much???).

    And even if the Cof/Bloom problem would be somehow solved, you have recoil. You can't model that, aside from the simple statement that "A good player can ptobably manage biased side-recoil with enough muscle memory but there is no way random recoil can be managed, that will affect for misses at distance." and as Renz0r used to say pointing at the mouse: "This is my conpensator, no need to equip one on the weapon." And recoil (IMHO) is what makes certain weapons good at range (or better than others).