[Suggestion] Make NC weaponry all about power

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by MichaelMoen, Jul 14, 2020.

  1. MichaelMoen

    Simple suggestion, give most, if not all NC weaponry a damage profile of at least 200, up to 250 to 350ish. Lower rate of fire as appropriate.

    Conglomerate weaponry is all Gauss technology. Sacrificing rounds per minute for a more powerful projectile. The Vanu have projectiles that defy gravity, Republic has massive rates of fire, and the NC is hard hitting. Most of our weapons shouldn't be sharing the same damage profiles as the other Factions. The balance shouldn't be in weapon damage, it should be in the slower fire rates, while when we DO land on target, it hits hard.

    When playing I continue to go back to the GR-22, the NC Assault Rifle with the highest rate of fire available because since we share damage profiles across the board, what makes the difference is getting more rounds on target faster than the other guy. Spray and Pray is a thing in close quarters, and I don't want it to be.
  2. Blam320

    NO. The NC already have the highest damage model weapons of their class, and it shows. Generally, I find NC weapons kill much quicker than their counterparts due to their higher base damage combined with the headshot multiplier. I can't count the times I've been two-tapped by a Gladius or Gauss SAW.
  3. DarkStarAnubis

    It is a never-ending story - it depends on the point of view.

    Hard hitting/slow firing are not good for beginners but lethal in the hands of experienced players aiming to the head.
    • Up x 1
  4. Liewec123

    No thanks! And I say this as an NC main.
    You're pretty much asking for nc to have nothing but scout rifles,
    which is both incredibly boring and would make nc require even more skill to be competitive than they already do!
    As you increase damage and lower RPM the skillfloor increases, missed shots become more and more punishing,

    Sure nc could have 1-2 faction specific super heavy machine guns, firing slow and hitting hard, but only 1-2.
    • Up x 3
  5. Demigan

    The NC currently already is "all about power". It has the most 200 damage model weapons and overall it has the most high damage models and the least low damage models.

    Keep in mind I'm talking damage per bullet damage models. In terms of DPS the high damage models are no better than the low damage models. High damage models also suffer the most damage degradation and suffer the most TTK loss for misses. This game shows that in general the easy to use weapons dominate the most, as 50 medium skilled players far outweigh what the 1 pro player can pull off solo. And the higher damage model weapons are simply less forgiving but still offer the same DPS.

    The NC should be about prototype technologies and things slapped together. In the lore they are the working class that slapped together stuff to fight back, the first MAX being a heavylifter frame they just welded armor and weapons too. GAUSS technology can also be used to fire the next shot while the previous bullet is still being accelerated down the barrel. The amount fo power you can put behind a shot can also be so high that a bullet has the impact of a grenade (which will unfortunately mean that whoever fired it will also experience that force in the form of recoil).

    NC could be about those technologies, things that have a chance of backfiring or cost the player as well as the enemy. Charge a shot for more power but at the highest settings you'll damage your own shields and health with a shot. Let more ammo pierce enemies in a row. Let us use that lore of them repurposing civilian equipment, such as using a modified plasma torch as a short ranged flamethrower that has no reloads but can catch fire or even explode if you overheat it too much. Use a gun that fires electricity, but fire it too long in a row and the chance increases that the electricity arcs back at you. Let us fire jury-rigged mining explosives that arent too reliable when they explode. There's a wood logging company base on one continent, let us wield full sized chainsaws and perhaps even give us a literal chainsaw vehicle to melee other vehicles with. Bouncing bullets, slow moving manually detonated explosives that launch a bunch of pellets into the direction it was flying, grenades from grenade launchers that have limited capacity to follow the crosshair during flight, explosives that can only be triggered by small-arms fire.
    The list of possibilities is immense. But instead we'll be getting shotguns and high damage models until the end of time.
    • Up x 1
  6. OneShadowWarrior

    No thanks, they have too much power as is.
  7. Demigan

    Ignoring how wrong that is, what would you like the VS and TR to get in return if the NC got some changes like this to its armory? Its not as if such a change could be done in a vacuum, you always have to look at what it would do to the rest of the game and change other things where necessary.
  8. LaughingDead

    Let me tell you then, 0. Because neither the saw or gladius can 2 tap you.
    • Up x 2
  9. Goodkat

    On VS lack of bullet drop: it is basically meaningless on most weapons. Take carbines for example. I have maybe 10k carbine kills and use the NS ones the dame as the VS ones. I don't even notice bullet drop or lack thereof.
    • Up x 1
  10. Campagne

    I don't think that would be a very good idea.

    Time and time again practice has shown it to be much worse for a weapon to have a higher skill requirement to be effective, and even if these weapons had a faster TTK in theory than "regular" damage models they'd probably still be worse even before throwing in factors such as nanoweave, auxiliary shields, hit detection, implants, and heavy shields.

    We could have special insanely-high-damage and insanely-high-RoF variants of other types of guns instead maybe? For NC, a pump-action with an RPM of like 40 with 100 damage pellets, but it shoots 20 pellets per every shell. Small magazine to accommodate the massive shells it holds and bingo, a fun and actually unique shotgun for the NC which actually reflects their traits.
  11. Blam320

  12. Demigan

    Gauss Saw and Gladius deal 200 damage at their maximum damage range with a 2x headshot multiplier. 200 times 2 headshots=800 damage. Even an Infil survives.
  13. MichaelMoen

    Was just in the VR. Gladius takes three head hits on a target, and I think the ones in there don't have Nanoweave.
  14. Johannes Kaiser

    Head doesn't have Nanoweave either. Under no circumstances. Helmets do not apply. :)
    • Up x 1
  15. Blam320

    I might have been exaggerating/misremembering, then. Still, being three-tapped at midrange just isn't fair. No time to react, no time to try and save face. I get being sniped from long distance, but I'd say this falls into the same category as CQC sniping and shotguns in terms of close-range cheese.
  16. Somentine

    The TTK is given for each weapon.

    Saw: https://planetside.fandom.com/wiki/NC6_Gauss_SAW
    Carv: https://planetside.fandom.com/wiki/T9_CARV
    Orion: https://planetside.fandom.com/wiki/Orion_VS54
    Gladius: https://planetside.fandom.com/wiki/MGR-S1_Gladius

    If you can't react to the Saw Or Gladius, you won't be reacting to most other weapons either.
    • Up x 1
  17. JohnMcCreedy

    There are a few problems. First and foremost is that this is an MMO/Online shooter, not a single player game. Multiplayer games don't have a linear progression allowing for a 'hard mode', they have (in the case of Planetside 2) three factions going hammer and tongs at each other and not every vet is going to play NC, nor every new player choose Vanu and TR. NC have a ridiculously difficult learning curve and even the best players will struggle. It's not an exaggeration to say that firing NC weapons is like wrestling an Alligator. Yes NC weapons are lethal in the hands of experienced players but only within the 10m range. The further outside that your target is the more difficult it becomes to win the fight.

    I have characters on all factions including NS operatives, and have played this game since it came out and I tell you it is not balanced for the NC. NC are the only faction whose MAX can't use its native weaponry, and the NC are useless in ranged engagements using NC weapons. Most players will chose an NS option for ranged engagements, albeit with some exceptions. The GR-22 is the best Assault Rifle in the game, hands down. It's beautifully balanced between range, RoF, handling and firepower. But outside of that the NC are horribly under-powered when you look at engagements across all ranges.

    All that being said, increasing the damage of the weapons is not the solution, it will change nothing. with the exception of shotguns NC will continue to dominate in the 10m range and struggle the further you get outside that range you engage. But therein lies an exacerbation of the problem with the NC in that they're meant to be close range specialists but the TR and Vanu also get one-shot shotguns rendering that advantage moot. Nor would I advocate for their removal. No, what the NC need are more, and viable ranged options in their arsenal. Weapons with reduced damaage, similar RoF and range to the mid- and long range options of the other three factions. That way no matter who you play you have options for every engagement range and no one can complain (well I'm sure some will because they just like complaining).
    • Up x 1
  18. DarkStarAnubis

    I play all factions as well (NSO included).

    NC have wonderful ranged weapons and CQC bullet hoses as well.

    TR have the best CQC weapons but not so good options long range.

    Take carbines for example: the Cougar has a too slow RoF for the damage it deals and the T5-AMC does not deal enough damage.

    This has recently improved with the new Kindred (IMHO the most versatile Carbine of PS2).

    Same for LMG (maybe the Bull but it does not pack enough punch).

    VS has a similar situation. No really good long range options (the Pulsar C isn't bad however) and no good range LMG.

    Some default weapons are unbalanced. The SAW is hard to use but the default carbine and assault rifle are very good weapons.

    All in all I would say NC has overall the best/widest selection of weapons while NSO has the worst one (especially CQC, we have nothing but the new Punisher)
  19. Campagne

    I don't really think the NC's issues have much of anything to do with power persay, and moreso everything to do with (in)consistency.

    Everything from the NC MAX to the SAW and every other automatic 200/~500 to the Mjolnir are theoretically equal, ish, but in practise are often some of the worst options for just about any given situation. The reasoning is always the same: Large CoFs with massive RNG distribution and low RoF, resulting in random hits and misses while punishing the misses unfairly.

    An experienced player shouldn't really fear many 200/~500s at long range because of how ineffective they are in most hands. I'll argue a SAW is the best of them at range, having a combination of damage degradation, velocity, and magazine size suitable for the engagement. It acts like a really ****** sniper rifle at long range, whereas the only real chance to hit requires the shooter to be stationary. It's actually pretty good if shooting a completely stationary target, because of the triple-tap tap-firing, which kills a lot faster than one might expect. But if the enemy is moving and aware he will almost always be the one who chooses whether he will die. Tiny bursts or single shots with a low average accuracy leaves a very long TTK for most people.

    However, compare that to the Vanquisher: A 200/~500 burst assault rifle. The RoF is low, lower than even listed because it fires bursts. But it's easily the most effective non-sniper long-range weapon in the game, in my opinion. It has the damage and velocity, but also has the controlability and accuracy needed unlike every other 200/~500. The number of times I've been accused of hacking because I killed a person with one burst from across a facility is hilarious to me, because the weapon ought to be infamous for it's power and accuracy combo yet no one ever seems to understand when I try to tell them so. I even seem to be the only one to ever even mention it!

    The SAW is powerful, in theory. More powerful than the Vanquisher, a lot more powerful in fact. But in practise and in reality the inverse is true. The problem with NC weapons isn't that they lack power still, it's that the lack the means to effectively use it.

    The NC and TR both have exactly the same number of damage models across all weapon types, with many of them being very close or carbon copies. Only the VS lack an additional damage model. Don't perpetuate the myth, and don't you make me bring up the weapon damage model spreadsheet again. :p
    • Up x 1
  20. DarkStarAnubis

    Ciao Campagne - must have missed the spreadsheet, please pick it up or add a reference, I'll have a look (I mean it).

    And for the pure fun of it: DMG says only something but not everything, even coupled with RoF and unfortunately there is almost no way to add Bloom and Recoil in the picture. Controllable (Bloom/Recoil) weapons eat more powerful (DMG/RoF) weapons for breakfast in terms of real (not mathematical) TTK except at point blank range considering the average planetman precision.

    You said it yourself quoting the Vanquisher. It is not its DMG neither the RoF but the burst mechanism + the low recoil making it a one burst kill weapon (can't recall the FSRM, isn't missing like many burst weapons?).

    Another hidden treasure is the Horizon. Without that stupid pellet mechanism it would be devastating, it is the only 0/0 (CoF/Bloom) weapon of the game.