Increase the magrider's dps. Simple as that. The magrider's projectiles are already the hardest to hit with, why are they also the least effective? The magrider is the worst in everything other than the dubious "mobility" area. Increase it's dps.
Monthly Weapon Performance Stats AP Cannon by VKPH Prowler- 14.44 Magrider- 12.19 Vanguard- 11.62 HE Cannon by KPH Prowler- 54.93 Magrider- 46.83 Vanguard- 37.5 The Magrider isn't bad. Sure it isn't a Prowler, but at least it isn't a Vanguard! Actually the data suggests that Prowlers need to be toned down a bit and Vanguards buffed a bit... but the Magrider is good where it is.
But then again, the stats suggest that the Vanguard should be literally ******** all over any other MBT, so perhaps this tells us something about the usage of MBT's? I can say from experience that when I rush armor head-on in my Vanguard, I still score the same as when I carefully flank with my Magrider, though I haven't had time to use my Vanguard all that much(Gotta go dakka too dakka to pew pew*sanic theme*). I would bet money that I would perform well above my Magrider when I flank with my Vanguard. Not saying that I want the Vanguard nerfed(Well maybe I would want the shield adjusted, but more of a role change then a reduction in effectiveness across the board), I'd really rather the Magrider be made into what it should be, a heavy Harasser. The Prowler on the other hand...
I'm just giving the average stats, which suggest that the average Magrider kills more vehicles per hour of use than the average Vanguard. Your own mileage may vary, but it's worth noting that your own performance is already included in the stats (assuming that you pulled a Magrider and/or Vanguard in the last 30 days). Balance shouldn't be based off of what a single person or a rare class of people can do, but with how the average player (a composite of all players) does with it. Maybe it's far easier to flank with the Magrider than with the Vanguard, given the Magrider's superior acceleration (or lack of deceleration) as well as the ability to use terrain that is forbidden to other tanks? I dunno. It's hard to say using actual data that the Vanguard is that dangerous. As far as MBT versus MBT data goes... Magriders lost to Vanguard AP- 8,297 (6.05% of all Magrider deaths) Vanguards lost to Magrider AP- 7,519 (4.42% of all Vanguard deaths) The problem is though that there are many more Vanguards than Magriders... Magrider AP hours- 266.1 (7,983 per month) Vanguard AP hours- 352.2 (10,566 per month) So it's normal to see more Magriders being killed by Vanguard AP because there are more Vanguards running around. It doesn't necessarily mean that Vanguards are any good. Let's normalize the death data by taking into account usage using a basic formula of dividing losses from a weapon by the usage of that weapon... Adjusted Magriders lost to Vanguard AP- 0.785 per hour Adjusted Vanguards lost to Magrider AP- 0.942 per hour Thus, the data shows that per hour of Magrider AP usage, Magriders will kill 0.942 Vanguards, while per hour of Vanguard AP usage Vanguards will only kill 0.785 Magriders. This again seems to suggest that Magriders have the upper hand in tank combat, not Vanguards.
Those numbers are telling me how forgiving each MBT is in general for all skills levels against all vehicular targets (as you note). They don't accurately reflect the outcome of skilled MBT vs MBT engagements. I suppose real question is which stat should MBT's be balanced upon? IMO, each MBT should have an even chance against the other at all ranges, especially in close as that's where a majority of engagements occur. This is definitely not the case now.
We seriously need more statistics from that site The more you look the stats, the more questions arise. If Prowlers and TR Harassers (way more tank kills than VS or NC) are such vehicle destroyers, why TR kill more Magriders/Vanguards using Phalanx turrets, Mana AV turrets, C4, AV mines, stock RL, Daltons and Hornets (and even Rocket pods) than NC or VS using the same weapons? Looks like TR are fighting more tank zergs than VS and NC.
In terms of who is pulling the most tanks, that's probably the TR actually. Hours by MBT Primary Weapons Prowler- 675.9 hours Vanguard- 578.6 hours Magrider- 465.6 hours Unique Users by MBT Primary Weapons Prowler- 2,196 Vanguard- 1,764 Magrider- 1,329 So the TR have the most hours in their MBT as well as the most number of people pulling their MBT. If you normalize by population, the TR stand out even more because usually the NC have the highest population across all servers. In other words you have a low population pulling more tanks than the higher population. So it's not the NC or VS pulling tank zergs... that would be the TR. And the answer to that is because the Prowler is by far the strongest tank. Not sure which data you're looking at, because at least from what I can see most of that is not true. The TR do not kill more Magriders/Vanguards using those tools than other factions. In fact, the TR suffer more losses even taking into account their greater reliance on tanks. For example, C4 deaths: Prowlers- 26,714 (1.32 per hour of use) Vanguards- 22,372 (1.29 per hour of use) Magriders- 12,602 (0.90 per hour of use) So Prowlers are actually the most likely to die to C4, even taking into account that there are more Prowlers around to begin with. Mobility is what matters most in C4 deaths, and the Prowler is probably the most vulnerable while the Magrider can easily dodge C4.
The DPS I can deal with, but the drop and limited elevation is overkill. Therein lies the biggest problem. There should be continual, minor (documented!) balance tweaks for all aspects of the game. Unfortunately everything overnurfed two years ago is still that way now. We all know what they are, the stats confirm it, but nothing is done. And the DBG team wonder why the game is dying. How hard is it to tweak the numbers week by week / month by month until a balance is achieved?
Because as this thread shows .. Balance is largely Subjective unless you balance by stats alone , but which stats do you use ? For example the ones shown in this thread indicate the Mag doesn't need a buff while the OP believes it does .. True Balance is one of those things that's easy to talk about but hard to achieve ...
Lets pick the low hanging fruit to start with: Fractures +, Ravens -, PPA +, ZOE +, Ranger +, I'm sure there are others. As for MBT's, I'd like to see the BR 100 (2 person) MBT vs MBT stats balanced as it more accurately reflects what the underlying platform is capable of. As other threads have noted, these stats are near impossible to derive as we don't have the necessary data - but i'm sure DBG could figure it out.
If you balance for the top 1% but the game is played by the 99%, what sort of impact do you think that would have on the game? For example, say Magriders are overperforming in 99% of the game but underperforming in 1% of the game. By your reasoning, we would buff the Magrider. The result of this, however, would be that the Magrider would be even more lethal in 99% of the game, killing even more enemy tanks. This would have an impact on base battles and alerts. It makes much more sense to balance by the 99% than the 1%. Screw those darn 1%ers!
i find magrider to be by far the easiest, no recoil, no bumps from the terrain, you can land every single shot in the same spot with ease without needing to readjust your aim. for sheer performance i'd probably back up what the stats are saying, prowler (for the immense amount of dakka you can put out with maxed reload and anchor)>maggy>vanny.
The only buffs I could see the Mag getting are boosting resistances against the Terrain Republic and possibly a SMALL dps boost on the FPC as well as a tightening of the COF on the Saron. ... I dont find the mags projectiles hard to hit with. In fact its hands down most accurate while moving. That no recoil life. Just compensate for the drop. Git gud.
http://ps2oraclestats.com/monthly-vehicle-deaths/ MBT. Just see the list for VS and NC. In total, of course more Prowlers will die to that, there are more Prowlers. In terms of %, TR kill more with common weapons
I would respond by analyzing what exactly makes each vehicle over / under perform at a given level and adjust accordingly. And I don't agree that it's good thing for any vehicle to be unbalanced at end game. You are effectively saying "have fun killing noobs, but you will never have an even fight against an equally skilled crew"
That's the same source I'm using, and I've already adjusted for increased Prowler lifetimes. If you're looking at the simple "percent" column, that won't tell you very much because it only tells you the percent distribution of deaths within a single MBT. For example, 13.05% of all Prowler deaths are from C4, while 13.15% of all Vanguard deaths are from C4. This doesn't really mean that C4 kills Vanguards more often, but could simply be that other things aren't killing the Vanguard as much. If you look at the raw numbers and adjust for population, it becomes clear that Prowlers die to C4 the most. Which makes logical sense, because unlike the shifty Magrider the Prowler is stuck in one spot and usually in tunnel vision.
