Mag-Scatter just isn't any good.

Discussion in 'Test Server: Discussion' started by TorigomaSET, Jul 29, 2014.

  1. DevDevBooday

    Yes I agree, if you fight exclusively point blank the Spiker is bad, if though, like me, you use guns to shoot people further than knife distance, its actually a good pistol (compared to the AMP or the Scat). Now, its still useless compared to the NS pistols, they all are, we wont bother treading there.
    The burst is the reason you buy the Spiker, you dont buy it for its normal DPS, thats no doubt why its so low, in order for it not to make the burst seem pointless like it was before. Though like the other pistols, the Spiker will also have a much higher average headshot ratio than the other pistols. Regardless, the Spiker is the only pistol Ill actually spend the 1000 certs on. The AMP is utterly impractical with its current mag dump speed and Mag scatter is far too situational to be your trusty sidearm which you should always be able to rely on.

    If you are comparing other empire specific pistols though.
    Compare the Repeater to the AMP for me. Then come here and convince me why I should spend 1000 certs on it than to just use the Repeater. If you can come up with any convincing thing, then Ill admit the AMP is good.

    For a TR soldier the AMP is redundant and impractical compared to the Repeater. The AMP is useless because of the 9/10 chance you will need to reload in order to finish the guy off. Thats what REALLY kills the weapon.

    To the VS the Spiker is new with a good niche function but worse than the Beamer for everything else

    Mag Scatter is niche but its close range advantage to the Rebel or Magshot are insignificant compared to its complete inability to function at range.

    And just to be clear, yes the NS pistols are better than everything anyway.

    So as you can see, you may, as VS see the AMP as great, since you have nothing like it. But for us it is utterly laughable.
    At least you guys dont already have a charge up that is better than the Spiker.
  2. Torok

    The magscatter is terrible.
    How I wish we would've got a sawed-off shotgun with just those epic yet deadly 2 rounds :(
    • Up x 2
  3. Paqu

    Thanks for a little more thought out reply instead of the previous ones.

    If you use pistols to kill people at bit longer ranges than under 10 meters then the Spiker wont do you any good. Is it better at that than the Mag-Scatter or AMP? Sure, but it doesn't make it good. So its almost as bad at range as those two, but its also bad at close range. NS pistols are the king for the range no doubt. But sadly those are the only pistols for the VS worth using anyway and Spiker wont change that fact. Both TR and NC has great pistols that they can use instead of the NS ones if they like.

    I dont know how it could have higher headshot ratio thought. I mean the fire delay and its slowish firerate is something that really throws off the aim and makes those twitch headshots harder to pull off on a moving target.

    I dont see a point why I should spend the 1000 certs on the Spiker? What do I gain by that? As I said previously its bad for the stalker infiltrator where you rely on the stealth and it doesn't do any good for a backup weapon to kill of wounded target. I just hate the fact that since it has the charge which isn't very practical it has low rate of fire.

    About your comment on the AMP and Mag-Scatter. This takes us back to my original post here. I might take the AMP to be used as a backup weapon when main runs dry, but for the stalker I would use the Repeater. This is what I said previously. Repeater is IMO one of the best pistols in the game so no, there isn't any real reason for the change. However give VS the AMP and I bet people would go nuts.

    I mean thats what VS players have hoped for a long time. Burst fire pistol that is good at close range like the Repeater and Desperado is. Now we are getting a burst fire pistol which isn't good at CQC. Ditch the charge or leave it to the Spiker and turn Cerberus into good burst fire pistol. That would be perfect.

    Mag-Scatter isn't great either. This is what I originally said as well. But I still find it much better than Spiker. For the stalker it kinda works, but for everything else most of the other NC pistols are good. However give Mag-Scatter to VS and it would sell better since all other VS pistols are so bad in comparison. And it pisses me off that the Spiker seems to be falling into that same category.

    Did you also try the Spiker? Anyways Iam currently making a little video about all the pistols from the footage I got from yesterday. Hopefully I get it done today so it will be uploaded and ready by tomorrow.
  4. minhalexus

    Trust me, Magscatter would sell worse with the VS, since more VS have the Commissioner than the NC/TR.

    The once advantage pistols have over Revolvers is that they have silencers.
    But the Magscatter Silencer literally makes it useless.

    Magscatter is like the T2 Striker. Magscatter is worse compared to NS Commissioner, Striker is worse compared to NS Annihilator.

    Even though I get more kills with the Striker compared to Lancer, I would still say it needs a buff, cuz everyone has access to the NS Annihilator.

    Similarly, even though you maybe successful into proving that Mag-Scatter is performing better than the Spiker, I would find it hard to believe that it's performing better than the Commissioner something that is available to all 3 factions.

    Commissioner should have been the new NC pistol, and it shouldn't have been introduced before this point.
    ^ I couldn't care less about a pistol like Mag-scatter if this was true.
  5. Dramonicous

    I wonder why there are so many commenting on these threads who obviously have no idea how to work a pistol.
    If your not a main infiltrator then you really shouldnt be reading these posts since your input is at best at beginner level.
    DevDevBooday thinks that the Spiker is by far the best of the 3 new pistols. Mainly for its feature to "instagibb" and seems to completely disregard for the fact that its a long charge up before you can fire that salvo (which requires all hits, most of which headshots). Since your obviously not a infiltrator player then allow me to inform you that you CANNOT charge weapons while cloaked.
    Its one of the biggest reason that Vanu hate that they got this completely useless and unpractical feature.
  6. SenEvason

    I've been seeing a lot of mixed reactions to the Mag-scatter.
  7. Bape

    No butI fought against it I did got instant killed sometimes but the sound gives away their location and makes you cautious which got them killed a lot.
  8. Bape

    I saw your pistol post you are VS bias and think the AMP and magscatter is OP lol.
    • Up x 3
  9. DevDevBooday

    None of these new pistols are any good for stalkers. dont bother. Spiker isnt the best, its just the only one that has a reason to exist.
    • Up x 2
  10. DevDevBooday

    Well of course the Spiker is going to have a better headshot ratio than a shotgun and a spray and pray. Thats just what happens, specially when it has a slight kick up like the Spiker does. The other pistols arent exactly 'go for the head' pistols
    Look my main pistol and you can even check this, is the TS2 Inquisitor, if you look at Dasanfall its average kill time against a LA is 2 seconds and against a heavy assault its over 4 seconds.
    Now i use this gun not because of its DPS but because i can use it at range. I dont use the repeater because when my TORQ or whatevers clip is empty I need to be able to rely on the gun I pull out to hit the enemy. i need a gun I can use when my primary runs dry completely and I need to pistol solo.
    I cannot rely on the AMP or something like the Mag Scatter for this. For a Stalker I wouldnt bother with these new pistols either. I dont know why everyone is obsessed with Stalker examples they are only a single aspect, that is a different way of looking at pistols. Im looking at them from an actual sidearm and a I-ran-out-of-ammo-lets-do-this perspective. Not cloaking.

    Although the DPS of the Spiker is low, its TTK is still higher than the TS2 (Yes the TS2 has a theoretical higher DPS but can you click 9 times per second? The average is about 4 so its actual TTK is closer to 600dps) The Spiker is a gun that i could pull out to finish an enemy off at any real combat range. The Spiker is a gun i could take out of the holster when my primary runs dry. The burst is something i would play with alot and when used right i could actually win a duel with primary users, awesome for when i need to use it without a primary weapon to soften them up first. Its flexible and has alot of potential. but no, you cant charge while cloaked. If that ruins the weapon for some then sorry about that.

    AMP and Scat are too limited. Scat for obvious reasons, its just a Rebel really with no range and the AMPs mag dump is too fast to afford to miss and so cant be used by itself. Sure the AMP has the highest DPS of the 3 but when you have to throw a 1.5 second or whatever reload in as well because your first clip didnt kill, it loses that edge entirely.
    The reliability for both of those pistols is terrible.

    Ill be sticking to my TS2 for TR and Ill give the Spiker a spin for VS.
  11. minhalexus

    In regards to the Spiker, I would buff the RoF to about 400 or 420.
    And to balance off it's counterpart I would buff the Desperado to 16 rounds.
  12. TheKhopesh

    It DESPERATELY needs an extra shot.
    Missed shots (And even on shots that hit, you often miss a pellet or two) are exceptionally common.

    Right now you need about a 75% accuracy rating in a fight if you want to win. And that's if you're only fighting at 10m or less.
    Outside that, you miss too many pellets to kill someone without 100% hits and aiming for the head/collarbone.

    Hipfire CoF while moving could stand to be smaller.
    Not by much, maybe 5-10%?

    You're running 90% of the time you have the thing out so you can get closer, and having that small increase to accuracy would greatly help. Usually you get screwed when you see someone if you haven't stopped to ADS.

    Alternative to an accuracy buff, here's what I would prefer to see though:

    Up the RPM from 120 to 155 (An extra 35 RPM).
    This would allow you to deliver followup shots fast enough that you can actually get a kill as a stalker when you get caught with your pants down.

    Right now, it's like a crossbow.
    Low ammo, low DPS.

    TTK on it's quite high, but that's if you're counting perfect shots without any missed pellets.
    That's where DPS comes in as a statistical wonder for pistol analysis.

    DPS is far more illustrative when it comes to missed shots and shotgun pellets.
    All you have to do for this is estimate how many pellets (Or bullets, in the case of regular pistols) you expect to miss in a given situation, and subtract the damage of them from the DPS.

    But while the other weapons in it's niche (The niche of low range, fast killing CQC pistols such as the AMP, Repeater, and Spiker) have a DPS of +1,550 DPS, the Magscatter has a DPS of 1,200.

    Adding that little extra fire rate puts it at the lowest of the above mentioned pistols, and the lowest range, but allows it to keep it's pace with other pistols in it's class in an "Oh cr@p!" situation.

    That also opens the door for allowing this to be the only OHK headshot sidearm in the game.
    If you limit it to headshots where every pellet hits the head, it's the only pistol that in no ways breaks the balance with OHK headshotting.

    This is because it's physically impossible to hit all pellets from this gun on the head from a measly 2m.
    (The max distance that the Magscatter's pattern can hit a non-max infantry's headbox is a tiny 1.85 meters.)

    This is ADS with the smart choke, all on a stationary target and without moving.
    Outside these parameters, you'd have to be at 1m or closer!

    So if you're close enough to headshot someone, you're close enough to simply chest shot+knife him.
    As well, the shot+knife is many many many times easier to pull off, and can easily be done on a moving target.
    ADS perfect headshots with the magscatter on a moving target are nigh-impossible without being inside the target when the shot is fired.

    As the only gun that can be balanced along with OHK headshots, this is also in line with the NC's theme of high damage.
    Although it would be easier just to shot+knife them, it'd definitely be a boasting feature for NC to have the only sidearm in the game that can OHK (Even though it would be strictly under circumstances that make it of no benefit other than getting the kill on the gun rather than the knife).
  13. Paqu

    Ok here is the video I talked earlier where I use all of them against live targets around the Crown with stalker infiltrator.

  14. TorigomaSET

    >_> Uhhhhh the Mag-Scatter does not have a Silencer. Not sure who told you that. Its not had a Silencer for WEEKS. You might want to update your Info before trying to argue any of this.