lynx, jaguar or hailstorm

Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by Phrygen, Mar 11, 2013.

  1. Farlion

    Of course it is a big difference. Use a Jaguar for 30 mins in a trial and then switch to NC and use a Merc. Trust me, you'll see the difference straight away.
    And contrary to what most NC users on this forum say, the recoil is easily controllable even without a grip. And why NC players always bring up the "but u has 10 more bullets!1!11" argument is beyond me.

    The damage of NC Weapons in general is a joke, but even worse concerning carbines.
  2. Radec594

    Once you go Lynx you never go back.

    Lynx is where it's at, trust me, it served me wonderfully through 40+ BRs.
  3. Rogueghost

    I've been using the jaguar since around January, it was also the first weapon-and for now the only- weapon I've gotten an aurax medal with.

    I really think the choice between the lynx and jag is a no brainier, the lynx has a very slight faster fire rate while the jag has a considerably longer range, compared to the lynx.

    If you really can't make up your mind the vr training was recently added, just grab a gun and start firing off rounds.
  4. Ghoest

    Mainly because the recoil pattern is so friendly.

    At medium and longer ranges I do better with the vertical or nearly vertical recoil pattern of the Jag.
  5. Paperlamp

    non-infil class in flak armor(I assume the most common thing you'll run into): 500 health + 500 shields

    167 x 6 = 1002

    143 x 7 = 1001

    A one bullet to kill difference

    When you consider the faster RoF of the Jaguar, I believe it will put out an extra bullet in the time it takes the Merc to shoot six, possibly even more. Factor in all of the other advantages the Jaguar, and you've got a clearly superior gun.


    Doing some more math:

    750 rounds per minute/60 = 12.5 rounds per second for jag, so .57 seconds to kill w/7 rounds.
    600 rounds per minute/60 = 10 rounds per second for merc, so .6 seconds to kill w/6 rounds.

    Jag even does a bit more damage per second(the Lynx will do even more for those that prefer it). See how great that extra bullet damage is? Definitely worth all those downsides!
  6. Ghoest

    I thought people like you were laughed off the forum back in January.

    More damage is better than less damage. Higher alpha is debatably better than low alpha.

    But the one bullet argument based on a specific break points is TOTAL JOKE.
  7. Wolfwood82

    We've been slacking, sorry -clears throat-
    You're ******** over a .03 second difference in TTK, that's 3 hundredths of a second. Faster then a squirrel on coffee.

    And what about accuracy? You have a stronger vertical pull but the Jag has a stronger horizontal pull and favors the right while the Merc favors neither direction. The merc appears on paper to be far easier to handle then the Jag as you really have just upward pull to compensate for, which is far easier then compensating for left/right pull while also compensating for up pull. Next up is range, you're rounds travel further before hitting their minimum damage, and minimum damage is 125@75 meters compared to the Jag's 112@65 meters. What does this mean? It means at long range the Merc kills with 1 less bullet, even at range. You also have a faster projectile velocity with the Merc then the Jag, by 60mps, which is significant. All in all, this adds up to the Mercenary being a superior mid-range carbine which is, dare I say, exactly what it was meant for?

    The Mercenary is your standard mid range weapon, our equivalent is the Trac 5. The Jag is primarily meant for short range hip fire. Why you are comparing two different carbine classes is beyond me.

    The NC don't have an equivalent for the Jag's role. The merc is a standard weapon, meant to be good at a number of different things. The Jag is meant to be a better CQC hip fire weapon. And considering you get the Merc for free, I'd say you have yourself a damn good weapon. Quit yer whinin, you aren't helping anyone with it. People like you just lead to the gradual ruination of the game as you eventually find something to agree on and cry about until the developers fix it and the game loses some small bit of integrity.
  8. Paperlamp

    No, I'm not whining over the damage, I'm just pointing out higher bullet damage is not that big of an advantage considering the hit to other stats it comes with. Killing with 6-7 rather than 7-8 bullets is not a real advantage if the gun that kills with 7-8 puts them out fast enough to deal more damage anyway, so the disadvantages on the 6-7 bullet to kill gun are unwarranted. This is why TR carbines are better than NC carbines. Carbines suck at long range for the most part anyway, at ranges bullet damage drop off matters you shouldn't be using a carbine. Plus you don't get to pick your engagement distance so having a more versatile weapon is ideal. Jag is a far better CQC weapon than the Merc, no question. But then you consider +10 rounds per mag, and 75% movement speed while ADSing vs. Merc's 50%, the superior RoF and and it's still not really a competition even at mid ranges.

    Also both guns pull both directions with horizontal recoil, not sure what you're on about there.

    GD-7F is our equivalent for the CQC role, though closer to the Lynx as the Jag is a bit more well rounded. Still, I'll agree that we don't really have an equivalent to it because of its clear superiority to NC carbines.
  9. Wolfwood82

    Look at the spread sheet. It shows the Merc pulling 0.175 in both directions equally. The Jag pulls 0.225 to the left and 0.25 to the right. It has a slight pull to the right and far more horizontal pull in both directions. This means that at longer ranges the Jag is going to be less accurate then the Merc because "balanced" horizontal pull is impossible to compensate for at the player level. The only way the Jag could compete at range is with a fore grip and that eliminates all of it's CQC advantage (which requires advanced laser). The Merc's strait values clearly beat the Jag in every way for a medium range fire fight. The .75 modifier to range means we move slightly faster, the farther you are from your target, the slower they appear to move and the easier they are to hit while moving. That modifier is of little value at range.

    At CQC the Jag's only real advantage is RoF, and that barely allows it to edge out the Merc in DPS. It's still a matter of who shoots who first at this point, seriously .03 second difference in TTK means the Jag has all of 3 hundredths of a second to react to the Merc shooting him by returning fire. No human being in existence has that kind of reaction speed. Extra rounds means we can miss more, that's about it. It holds little bearing on a 1vs1 firefight unless both sides are really terrible shots. The .75 movement modifier means our ADS is faster, however this is absolutely worthless in a CQC engagement because ADSing in CQC is death unless you see your target before he sees you. At which point your target is probably dead anyway.

    Alpha damage is also a lot more useful then weaker damage with a higher RoF. Quality over quantity.

    Finally, I'll say it again. You are comparing a standard (free) weapon to a purchasable (1k certs or 700 SC) specialist weapon. Obviously the Jag is going to have some advantages. However those advantages are being grossly exaggerated and the advantages that the Merc has are grossly under estimated. It is a side grade at best, not an upgrade.
  10. Hamakua

    I have the Lynx auraxiumed and an armistice (with about ~400 kills).

    I tried both the Jaguar and Hailstorm in the VR training and don't like either one. The Jaguar, while "similar" to the Lynx, has unmanageable back/forth horizontal recoil, while the Lynx is up and to the right. With practice, Lynx is the superior gun because of this predictable pattern (compensate down and to the left, you get more bullets on target than you could with the jaguar).

    As far as the hailstorm, it suffers from obnoxious recoil and the same back/forth the jaguar does.

    Between all your choices I would go Lynx, if not that, then jaguar, if not that Armistice, if not that, Hailstorm.

    As far as a "reserve" weapon is concerned, I'd stay away from a niche weapon like the Hailstorm/armistice. At the very least get one of your first two on the list that way you can go head to head with a heavy if you need to.
  11. DrTeeth

    I have all the TR carbines bar the burst, and honestly guys the best go-anywhere carbine is the default TRAC-5. While a properly set-up Lynx is excellent at close range, the TRAC-5 is great everywhere. I've used the Jaguar for a while but don't like it. It has the worst horizontal recoil of the TR carbines, tied with the Lynx, and I *really* can't stand horizontal recoil as it can't be compensated for. It also looks crap with the white dust cover and red stripes, and it sounds crap too. :)

    Just use the TRAC-5, it really is an excellent all-rounder with a foregrip and sight of your choice. If you want to have fun with grenades, pick up the S model. If you want to spray at close range, pick up the Lynx but remember you *will* lose to shotgun users at room-clearing distances and to anyone else at medium-long range.
  12. SGT Ace

    so back to the topic, it depends on your play style:

    1. Jaguar -medium to long range
    2. Lynx - short to medium range
    3. Trac 5 S - spam farmgranades from noobtube :)
  13. Paperlamp

    The jaguar's lower recoil and RoF still mean you get more shots into your target before they can react. I put more full auto fire out with the jag before needing to adjust than I do with the merc. Since the training area came out I've tested all carbines quite a bit, and the Jag is still hands down my top performer. I use the forward grip on it, and the horizontal recoil is so incredibly minor you don't really need to adjust. Also, you can compensate for its recoil even without one, you'd just pull very slightly left as you fire.

    Regardless, if you wanted a single direction recoil, TR have the Lynx which has higher RoF than the Jag. I like the Jag for the lower hip fire CoF though, because I can skip the advanced laser and still be reasonably effective in CQC.

    The mercenary still has a 30 round mag and only 180 ammo total, the Jag has 40 round mag with 240 - it's not just about being able to miss more, as LA you often find a good spot that will be hard to reach again if you run back for ammo. It's probably the class I run out of ammo with the most frequently, even when I'm trying to conserve it and only take shots I know I'll likely get a kill from. Even if the guns had the same killing power, 60 more ammo total is a huge advantage. On top of that, you strafe faster with the Jag.

    Also, a 40 round mag can mean you kill 2-3 people and survive before reloading, while the merc in such situations would empty and you'd have to reload and end up dead.
  14. vaxx

    The Jag has an ammo pool of 200 not 240. So....20 more bullets than the Merc.

    Show me a video of a person constantly killing 3 people with the Jag before reloading...better yet, make one yourself and prove that happens alot.

    Strafing faster huh? .25 faster....wow.

    Your lack of knowledge about TR guns sends the message you dont play TR much. Sadly, even if you played with carbines in the VR area, I am surprised you didnt notice the difference between 200 and 240.
  15. Wolfwood82

    Jag has marginally less kick on the first shot and less kick on follow up shots. It has more left/right kick and the same recovery (technically worse recovery since the Jag has less time between shots to recover from each recoil). The simple fact is they are more or less mathematically the same effing weapon. You are just too effing stubborn to figure this bit out. EVERY aspect that the Jag has an "advantage" over the Merc is well within the margin of error and the ONLY thing that separates the two weapons are the ATTACHMENTS.

    And really? You are going to play the VR card? I can do that too, I just now went in and tried out the Mercenary for the very first time. Wanna know what I found? Exactly what I expected, almost no discernable difference between the two weapons. You are probably one of those people who puts a 3.4 or 4x scope on medium range carbines, then wonder why the recoil is so out of control you can't handle it.

    Slap a 2x reflex and foregrip on a Merc and it handles like a charm. Better then the Jag really. Probably because the upward pull of the weapon is drastically compensated by it's slower RoF which results in a slower over all climb. Basically the Mercenary requires LESS compensation in every direction then the Jag does. What was that you were saying about the Jag being more accurate?

    Mathematically speaking, the two weapons are a bit different. As far as the human brain can discern, they are identical. The only thing that has an effect on your opinion is a placebo, what SEEMS better based on personal taste or subconscious opinion. The grass is indeed always greener.
  16. Paperlamp

    Jaguar has 40 ammo in clip + 200 in pool
    Merc has 30 ammo in clip + 150 in pool

    240 - 180 = 60

    Moving 75% of base movement vs. 50% while aiming down sight is significant. It's better having it that not having it no matter how you want to try to downplay it.

    Also nowhere did I claim you'll be constantly killing three people with the Jag's clip, but it can potentially kill more people per clip, and per total ammo pool than VS or NC carbines. Especially considering how accurate it can be short to mid range. The Merc and a few other weapons technically have smaller CoF(though Jag has a smaller hip fire CoF), but are harder to handle, have lower RoF, and simply get outperformed by the higher RoF carbines in most situations.

    There are plenty of instances this comes into play in practice, it doesn't take much imagination to figure a few out but obviously just flanking multiple unaware opponents is one of the more common ones. They react to being fired upon, you miss some of your shots as they dodge around and return fire, but you've got 10 more bullets to go through than a VS or NC does and get an extra kill or two instead of dying.
  17. Paperlamp



    Jag pulls slightly more one direction than the other, but still has less recoil in both than the merc. It has lower vertical recoil as well.

    The lower RoF of the merc does not help with recoil at all either, you can fire a jag and then a merc at a wall and measure - firing a full clip of 40 out of the jag will actually result in a bit less climb than firing 30 from the merc.

    I use HS/NV and 1x reflex in spite of your assumptions(why would anyone use a 3.4-4x on a carbine?), and yes there's a noticeable difference. They are significantly different guns, but the differences certainly don't even out.

    Not sure why people are so desperate to make the Merc out to be better or even competitive to the Jag, I'm not calling for nerfs, I just want one on my NC and VS - though VS carbines are in better shape than NC and almost as good as TR's admittedly. You can have a Merc equivalent for all I care.
  18. vaxx

    Jag: 0.3 ↑ , 0.225-0.25 ← = →
    Merc: 0.4 ↑ , 0.175-0.175 ← = →
  19. Paperlamp


    Ah, you're right. Must not've noticed because my NC doesn't have the forward grip on his Merc(newer character so less certs to throw around) while my TR did on the Jag. And/or because I was used to getting flinched like mad with the Merc.

    Still, doesn't make it anywhere close to as good as the Jag, but at least it's slightly less terrible than I thought.
  20. vaxx

    Matter of taste I think. I like the Merc better than the Jag. Fits my playstyle more.