Long past due: LA update

Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by Demigan, Dec 22, 2014.

  1. Demigan

    This is going to be a long read, you can skip to the suggestions part if you want (general idea's). All suggestions will incorporate idea's that will give LA's something else to do or completely replace C4 in the utility slot, this will in any way reduce the amount of C4 fairies. So anyone with any complaint about that, don't shoot the thread down about "C4 fairies OP" and the like.

    First, why does the LA need an update? A large comparison to other classes:

    HA: Designed for full-frontal combat and anti-vehicle.
    +has LMG's and ES heavy weapon
    +Has overshield
    +Has a rocketlauncher of any type he wants to better engage vehicles
    -Is slower when using it's shield
    -Implant is available to specifically reduce the ability of the concussion grenade.

    Updates for the HA: the ES rocketlaunchers, lock-on rocketlaunchers, Kraken auraxium rocketlauncher, various tweaks to shields, damage etc.

    Engineer: Designed for multiple support
    +Can place turrets against infantry/tanks (now with automatic turret)
    -Immobilised and vulnerable when using an AI/AV turret
    +Can place infinite ammo for himself and others
    +Can repair vehicles and turrets
    -Repairing costs time and the engineer can't fight back while repairing
    +Can carry the most types of explosives including the AT mine, and can carry the most explosives at a time of any type
    -only one class-specific grenade available
    ++Class specific grenade is the sticky, arguably the best AI grenade available atm.

    Updates for the engineer: AV turret, Spitfire turret. (if I'm missing updates, please tell me. the Wiki's aren't very forgiving in searching for updates)

    Medic: Designed for on-the-front heal support
    +Has access to AR's to better support this role
    +Has heal-gun that can revive as well
    +has AOE heal or AOE shield regenerator beacon that works on himself
    ++Has access to incredibly powerful revive grenades
    -Has access to heal grenade, which has little used due to the availability of the heal gun and AOE heal which are for free and unlimited
    -self-heal implant makes the heal ability less useful
    -use of healing tool makes the medic vulnerable

    updates: AOE shield regenerator, access tweaks and ability tweaks

    Infiltrator: Designed for scouting, infiltrating and long-range support
    +Has access to sniper rifles
    +has access to various cloak abilities
    +Can hack turrets and terminals
    +Has recon-dart/motion sensor that can scan targets from a distance for friendlies
    ++only class capable of using wraith flash
    +best class to use the OHK knife with
    +can avoid spitfires when stealthed
    -100 less health
    -limited access to primary weapons compared to other classes, low mid-range options
    -cloak disables weapons
    -Cloak quality degrades the faster you move
    -No access to C4
    -Implants specifically to negate the EMP grenade
    -Decoy grenade good for almost nothing aside from Spitfire turret distraction

    Updates: Wraith flash, stalker cloak, motion spottervarious tweaks to weapons and cloak, ES sniper rifles, Spitfire turret (Gives EMP and decoy grenade more functionality)

    MAX: Designed for heavy-duty tanking and high power on the front line against specific targets.
    ++Can carry two (mediocre) weapons at the same time
    ++higher effective health due to high resistance to most weapon types
    +capable of getting the best infantry-based AA
    +Only other class capable of getting non-utility AV options (not counting explosive crossbow), arguably the strongest AV options depending on faction
    -slower walk and sprint speed than other classes
    -incapable of being the driver/pilot for vehicles
    -costs 450 resources
    -no access to grenades
    -Few long-range options

    updates: ES ability, AV weapons added, tweaks to weapons and resistances.

    LA: Designed for flanking, mobility and confusion (smoke grenades&flash grenades)
    +has a jetpack
    +best infantry class to use C4 with
    +best infantry class to use shotguns with
    -Flash grenade is outclassed by concussion grenade in everything but AOE, concussion slows movement, turn speed, can invert mouse, defocuses vision. All that against vision reduction from the Flash grenade, which can be futile as IFF transponders (dorito's above people's heads) can still be seen and used.
    -Specific implant to reduce Flash grenade effectiveness
    -Smoke grenade is given to every class that uses an underbarrel smoke grenade launcher. Underbarrel smoke grenade launchers do not suffer a throwing animation when firing. They don't cost resources, you carry 2 automatically and you can resupply them at ammo packs. Furthermore Smoke grenades can be countered with heat vision scopes. LA's using heat vision scopes slow to a crawl, negating the whole mobility of the light assault.
    -incapable of using weapons properly when jetting
    -Likely not in range of medics when dead
    -Worst off when spitfires are around, most likely to be alone and Flanking fails

    updates: some tweaks to the grenades, some extra carbines (available to other classes as well), jetpack tweaked to get it's actual fuel consumption/capacity as was intended.

    It's a ton of information. But I hope that the gist is clear: LA doesn't have tools, barely any utilities, what special abilities that can be named are all based on it's jetpack alone and the LA has no unique special weapons to speak off. It lacks in teamwork, it's grenades are either given to just about everyone or are weaker versions than other class-specific grenades. On top of that, the LA hasn't had a single update that was solely dedicated to improving the class as a whole, where just about every other class was given a unique weapon and most have gotten a new type of ability somewhere along the line.

    Now the list below contains many idea's that have been posted by me, Movoza and some other people on the forums before. The aim of these idea's is to increase the versatility of the LA, give it more to do than C4 fairy, and make it an actual teamplayer.

    Suggestions and idea's on next post
    • Up x 3
  2. HadesR

    One thing I will mention and it's purely my own opinion ..

    Didn't people learn with ZOE that speed increases are a bad thing ?

    So no to any kind of speed boost .. Adrenaline boost is all this game needs and it already has it ..
    • Up x 1
  3. GoyoElGringo

    HA is the class that attacks from the front.

    LA is the class that attacks from above.

    INF is that class that attacks from behind.

    My only issues are that LAs with C4 are cheesy, and having the height advantage when all you have are carbines and shotguns kinda sucks(slugs included). When playing HA, the amount of INFs and LAs that attack me from the front is ridiculous. Most people don't know how to play those classes.
  4. _itg

    Before suggesting a ton of toys, you need to ask what the light assault actually needs. I think the class is in a very good place when the fight is outside the base, but when it's indoors, the jetpack is useless and you might as well play engi. Basically what I'm saying is, you'd want to give the LA something which helps when holding a point.
    • Up x 6
  5. WarmasterRaptor

    Here's a tool for a LA.

    Tracker device. On the shoulder.

    Every target that the LA spots remains spotted as long as the target lives or the La dies. He can see the doritos at all times.
    Maximum of X target "recorded" on the tool.
    Cert levels increases maximum number of recordings.

    So you get a hunter-like class. Could grant extra XP on kill, like "bounty" xp or something.

    If tracking_spotting shared to empire, give the extra "Tracker" xp.

    I don't know, the LA needs something more dang it XD
    • Up x 7
  6. K2k4

    I like the tracker idea WarmasterRaptor. Fits with the 'scout' idea. Maybe have it remain spotted for the LA only, though otherwise it's a little OP.

    Also I've been enjoying my LA and trying to plink people from trees/sidelines. I feel like the balancing factor of limiting scout rifles/sniper rifles was that the LA can get into all of those delicious hiding spots that the infiltrators wish they had so it would be OP for them to get these tools. I'm not saying that we should get these items, but our current tools are downright frustrating to use for this purpose (then again I've never played better than I have since switching back to LA primary in the last month or so). Maybe if we got access to those lovely accurate low-damage rifles that infils get (automatic scout rifles?) then that would work better.

    Another idea would be to give us more movement based abilities.. like a PASSIVE skill tree for reduced fall damage, increased running speed, or increased __ movement speed (via jetting horizontally or otherwise). What if you could equip a tool which increases the cost of your jets by 10% but increases the upward movement by 5%, 5 ranks would give you 50% additional fuel cost for 25% movement speed while jetting. This could occupy the tool slot.. maybe call it a jet pack frame or something.

    Also here is my obligatory request for icarus jump jets/sniper rifles on LA/infrared goggles/extra smoke grenades. I know these have become taboo requests mainly because these have been the obvious suggestions for LA since forever.
    • Up x 1
  7. TriumphantJelly

    Infiltrators should, in my opinion, be the scout class. I do, however, like the idea that the LA is the "hunter-killer" class.


    It ought to be like this in a (IMO):
    1. Aircraft
    2. Infiltrators
    3. Heavy Assaults
    4. Vehicles arrive
    5. MAX/Medic/Engineers
    6. Light assault "cleanup duty"
  8. RebelRanger

    Good post. I primarily play light assault and I find it to be a pretty fun class. But it needs changed. Right now there's 0 reasons to have one in a regular squad aside from placing beacons. Would be nice if we had a passive cert line like the infil and medic have too. Here's an idea that I copied from Corezer's thread.

    There were quite a few other good suggestions there as well. As I said, I find the killing potential of light assault to be fine, the problem comes when working with a squad or attempting to hold/push a point. The smoke/gas grenade idea was a really good one, smoke is next to useless in it's current state because it requires the squad to be super organized to even help. But think of a smoke that make everyone's shield flicker? Now that would be useful. Anyways, I definitely agree with the OP. Hopefully the devs will see all these threads and put some thought into the LA class.
  9. Leivve

    You don't call in the cavalry after the fight is decided, you call them in to decide the fight.

    What they should add is a new ways for LA to get into position. A blitz pack or something that let's you rapidly dart around the field or such. BR, AR or SR are also a good idea for us so we can get some steamy hot Jinetes action going along side our lovely Hussar action.
    • Up x 3
  10. Dualice

    Some good points raised. Besides the obvious tactical advantages of breaching a facility and being mobile in more open spaces, once light assaults are actually indoors, i.e. closed rooms with four walls and a ceiling, there is very little they have to offer besides C4. When outdoors they can attack from an elevated position but the ranged weapons to do so are lacking, and only the top players that can rack up kills without getting their head blown off will really be offering something to the team.

    I love playing light assault and do so a lot, but I agree, they need something.

    On the subject of ranged weaponry, would it be that disastrous to give light assaults the current iteration of battle rifles? They're basically a poor man's scout rifle.
    • Up x 1
  11. Spyder001

    If light assaults are hunter killers then we need a tool to take out our prey (tank, sunderer, max). So a handheld EMP device that has a recharge delay would be good. Get near a target and hit fire.

    Now that there are annoying spitfire turrets something to durable or distract them. EMP dart, decoy dart

    Another could be the ability to temporarily disable a enemy infant or vehicle shield from the inside or the base. Again a handheld device.
  12. Takoita

    Radar jamming?

    To be honest, I think that motion trackers belong on LA and any potential jammers of such on infiltrator, but I'm not sure if others would agree.
    • Up x 1
  13. Movoza

    I think that this grenade is way overpowered. It will not only flash shields, it will also prevent shield recharge and make it less obvious where and if you are being attacked from a different source than the smoke. It will cause confusion and a grenade will cause a defending or attacking player to move back, losing valuable ground. Either that, or it will force attacks on the other team, while they will often be unprepared. This will too easily dictate the fight around many tactical area's. Also, will this grenade hit your own team? Griefing will go through the roof, resulting in easy weapon locks or too easy team hampering, probably both.
    With a simple adaptation the grenade would receive my blessing. Remove the damage, and give it false damage indicators. This way people can still stay in the smoke without any HP or shield recharge disadvantages, but with the chaos and confusion that LA's are about.
    On the other hand, smoke should never be penetrated by any spotting, and people should lose any IFF tags when in a smoke. You can only see, and maybe spot, enemies in the smoke with appropriate scopes. This way these scopes will be much more wanted.
    Corezer's thread has many limitations. The speed increase in flight will give the LA too much power, and the underbarrel suggestions might be good, but will cause people to lose their sh** too easily, as their established power is diminished. There is more, but that is not what this thread is about.

    On topic, I think one big post is missing? I'll check where it went.
  14. Leivve


    If the game was being made I would be for this, but since it's already out I feel it would be a little bit of a F*** you to infiltrators.
  15. TheMercator

    I have (besides many others) some ideas for new support LA grenades. LA has really the weakest options for grenades. Even EMPs are better than smoke or flash grenades. So here are my two ideas:
    -Heavy grenade:
    This is a heavier version of the normal grenade. It has a bigger explosion and does more damage than frags, but have a longer fuse, are a bit heavier and beep after thrown. Their use is not to get kills like the normal grenade, but instead they are supposed to force people out of cover( or kill them if the don't do it;) ). Since they can't be thrown very far LAs have to use their JumpJets to get them to the enemy.
    Shock grenade:
    This grenade explodes on impact and then disable movement for everybody hit. The strenght of this grenade is, that it prevents people from getting into cover. This will also inflict panic to many people and reduce their resistance. (And of course it prevents people from ADAD spamming)
  16. VonStalin

    LA is predator mode of this game, jump from tree to tree and hunt. I want that to be more emphasised. I want arbalet with no sound. I want the ability to see heat, yes, like predator mode. Heat gogles. That would work as NV optics except you could use it as your normal vision with those sound effects. Would be really cool.
  17. Demigan

    I don't think that suits the LA. I would rather think the opposite would be better: Light grenade. Cheaper and you can carry a large bunch. Throw a lot of them into a room and have your enemies dart everywhere trying to avoid them, then charge in as they are in disarray. A heavy grenade is more a Heavy Assault thing.



    This would be similar to the concussion grenade, with the exception of the slowed turning around and it forces people to stand still. personally I'm not really for that type of grenade.
    • Up x 1
  18. SupaFlea

    The problem is ppl see LA as 2 things, C4 gimpers or Tree/Ledge Campers which is fine for solo play, but the key is make LA squad useful. Every decent tactical squad will literally take ANY class except LA because they have no use. I haven't come across a single GOOD vehicle driver or gunner that cant ding me in mid air with AT rounds not sissy AI rounds. I myself as a terrible vehicle gunner can do it mainly due to A practice, as a primary LA I expect LA to directly target vehicles with C4 and B, I am more aware and scanning while inside a vehicle because again I know how pesky us LA's can be.

    Nobody used the under-barrel cos its useless, you need basically a direct hit with the grenade, smoke is only useful in squads but your not wanted in squads. Flash is useless because you don't know if you hit everyone in the room so you run in shoot the stunned guy get gimped by the un-stunned guy. My idea below

    Anti Vehicle EMP.

    The old emp in PS1 lasted for maybe 5-10 seconds but prevented the vehicle from firing but still allowed to driver to be smart and run away same for the soldier, gives them those few seconds to possible make it to a safe place or get run over by the stunned vehicle.

    It could be squad useful giving HA a safe window for firing their rockets without being shot? No effect on deployed sundies though so everyone need to change to HA to take out sundies if no vehicle were present giving deployed sundies insane survivability if HA cant get a clear LOS on it.

    Flash Nade markers

    like the Doritos above enemies heads, a visual indicator for the Flash nade hitting ppl and some way of visually identifying who isn't effected by the flash so you could prioritise target upon room entry if fast enough. Maybe make it squad based indicator so only ppl in your squad see it if it become to OP.

    Jet Pack Boost

    a simple ability light one non max should on to a base wall and no higher at the double the fuel cost, May make LA more Squad friendly.

    AV Lock Tool

    Allow a LA to lock a target for HA rockets like a portable SOFLAM/ Laser Designator/ balance its use for non squad allies, say works for LA#s and other lock-ons within certain range of the LA. Basically it would allow an instant lock with coordination and teamwork from an LA in his squad.

    EMP mine

    like a claymore except strips the effective shield and abilities, making use of the LA ability to lay traps in doorways etc. Giving them a advantage in CQB for change and again making them slightly more beneficial to a squad in defence.
  19. Demigan

    First, the idea's I had in this post were removed, for the full thread please go here:
    https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2/index.php?threads/long-past-due-la-update-remake.211154/

    Sounds good, if they don't want it there can always be alternatives:
    Slows down all vehicle components (slower acceleration, deceleration, turn, turret turn, reload) by a certain %.
    disables/severely slows vehicles it hits, it can still aim and fire normally. Good for when multiple infantry are pushing up or preventing pop-up tanks from getting back to cover fast enough.

    I doubt these would be OP. Although it might be easier for people to accept if you just get a visual on the enemy, not a dorito but an animation on them (some electric sparks or something), to show they are stunned.

    I'm against any type of lifting others. Where every other class gets direct combat enhancing abilities the LA would become useful for squads only as a transporter. That's definitely not something I wish to do, and it means that all classes can get into those special places now reserved for LA's, I don't like that.
    I have given mostly subjective arguments here so if you really want this, go for it. I just think it's not a good idea to put in.

    I would think this more an infiltrator ability, and many would shoot it down just for that. I think it's an option, I just don't think people will accept it. Strange how it may seem, but they would rather railroad another feature in the game than have it on a class they don't think it appropriate for.

    Same as the above, I don't think the idea itself is bad, I think that the players will not want it because it would be treading on infiltrator territory.
    I had similar idea's myself for trip mines with various abilities. Such as cheap but plentyful tracker mines. An enemy walks passed, the mine goes off and Q-spots the enemy, after which it's expended. This way you can easily spot people who might be coming from your back, which is an easy occurence for LA's.
    Flash mines, instantly blinding someone who passes, good AOE. Unlike infiltrator mines it doesn't kill, but it can be incredibly useful in the right spot. It could also make the LA much more wanted in team-defense. An infiltrator mine kills one guy and maybe damages a few more, or just damages a MAX. A flash mine could blind several enemies and being a MAX doesn't protect you. Having such a mine as defensive option would be a devastatingly powerful tool in the right hands, and would warrant the use of implants when attacking or defending.
    Smoke mines, the lesser brother of the flash mine but still useful. Having enemies trip one and cause themselves to be blind at the right moment is a mightily useful tool, especially for an LA who can better anticipate with scopes that see through smokescreens.