List of Tower Bases that still have A point inside the tower.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Scr1nRusher, Jul 4, 2015.

  1. Scr1nRusher

    Indar:
    • Regent Rock Garrison
    • Indar Bay Point
    • Crimson Bluff Tower
    • Indar Excavation Site
    • Camp Connery
    • Feldspar Canyon Base
    • Arroyo Torre Station

    Esamir:
    • Snowshear Watchtower
    • Northpoint Station
    • Jaeger's Crossing
    • Saerro Listening Post
    • Mattherson's Triumph

    Hossin:
    • Cairn Station

    Amerish:
    • West Pass Watchtower
    • Granite Valley Garrison
    • The Bastion
    In total thats 16 tower bases that still haven't had the A point removed from inside the tower itself.
    • Up x 1
  2. BlueSkies

    And?

    You have a problem with variety?
    • Up x 9
  3. WarmasterRaptor

    Just being curious, why should it be removed from inside?
  4. Cheetoh

    The only kind of tower I like. :(
    • Up x 4
  5. Leftconsin

    Base variety is good.
    • Up x 4
  6. Scr1nRusher


    This isn't "Variety" what so ever.
  7. TheDarSin

    Scr1nRusher No! Bad Scr1nRusher! We've been through this before. If you're trying to make a point put it in the OP!
    • Up x 11
  8. BlueSkies

    Well, when you say that X amount of bases still haven't had the A point removed from the tower, there is an implicit argument that you want them all removed.

    Having some towers with the A point in random buildings and some with it in the tower is variety.

    /thread
    • Up x 6
  9. Scr1nRusher


    Do you know how many tower bases actually have A point removed from/not in the tower itself? 9

    3 tower bases with 3 points(Crossroads,Crown,Matsuda Genetics)

    6 tower bases with 1 point(Peris Field Tower, Mao Watchtower, Wokuk Watchtower,Mani Tower, Elli tower,Rashnu Watchtower)


    All Tower bases that are in the OP are 3 point tower bases.


    So lets do some math.

    9 out of the 25 tower bases in the game do not have A point in the tower itself/had the A point removed out of the tower.

    3 out of the 19 3 point Tower bases do not have A point inside of it/had A point removed out of the Tower.

    6 out of the 6 tower bases with 1 point do not have A point inside of it/had A point removed outside of the tower.




    To say that Tower bases have "variety" is a false statement for Tower bases in general & for 3 point Tower bases.




    Also there is no "variety" interms of how the fights go down for the A point inside the tower-tower bases. Its the exact same thing over and over again. Tower bases without A point inside the tower have more combat vairenty because people fight around the base and not cluster f***ed into the tower.
  10. Ballto21

    NOT EVEN IM THIS BAD
    • Up x 5
  11. maxkeiser

    What is the point of this thread?

    I like the A point in the tower. No changes required.
    • Up x 3
  12. HadesR

    TBH for 3 point Towers it's not a huge issue ..
    • Up x 2
  13. Scr1nRusher


    For 3 years the only thing that having A point inside the tower itself has done has been encouraging farming,bad map flow,zerging & making gameplay/fights involving them as bad as bio-labs. "Tower Farm" is a term due to it.

    The attackers farm the defenders coming out of the tower(because thats where the spawn is aswell) usually with vehicles, which has lead to splash damage(primarily vehicle/aircraft based) getting nerfed over time. "Shooting fish in a barrel" should be called "shooting tower defenders in the tower. People naturally target the tower due to the spawn room(players will be spawning in the tower afterall), by having A point inside the tower for 3 years people associate towers with farming.

    Now tower bases have been upgraded with more cover from external forces & had the protection shields extended to the hallways, so the external farming is less while the internal farming(which I'll be talking about next) has been given a advantage due to the towers design.

    The defenders farm the attackers who are trying to push up to A point. Those 2 stairwells/doorways are filled with deaths & explosions, on a level that rivals biolabs. The attackers get endlessly farmed, and the defenders are nice and safe. If the defenders die, they will be back in the same positions in less then 15 seconds. No progress can be made to A point if your attacking a Tower, and if you manage to get on A point as the attacker, the defenders can just throw grenades from the protection shield into the A point room and/or MAX crash you easily. Its just a meatgrinder.

    ____________________________________________________________________________________________

    Let me explain why A point being inside the Tower itself promotes bad map flow(or no map flow at all in the region the tower is located) & Zerging.

    Tower bases with A point inside the tower are highly defendable bases, to a point where they stop map flow where ever they are located, much like bio-labs.

    Now exactly like bio-labs it takes a large number of attackers inorder to breach into the structure(in this case the Tower where the A point is.)

    I've seen alot of people say that Towers with A point inside of them & bio-labs are zerg stoppers and things like that.........

    Thats total BS.

    Towers with A point inside of them & Bio-labs actually create/encourage zerging.

    Inorder to get inside the structure and take the objective(A point in the tower for instance) you need a big force to crush the defenders and then be able to hold the defenders off.

    Inorder to defend the structure(A point in the tower for instance) against a attacking force you tend to need enough forces to keep them back.

    The problem with Towers with A point inside of them(and bio-labs for that matter) is that it creates a "Dam Effect" or "Catalyst effect".

    Meaning it gathers more and more players over time, and then eventually when one side falls it creates a wave of players.

    If the attackers take the base, they will zerg down the lattice. If the defenders hold the attacks off, they will zerg down the attacker lane. Basically this creates zergs & makes zergs gather up.

    ____________________________________________________________________________________________

    Fights involving Towers with A point inside of them is the exact same things over and over again, to a point where players involved don't need to think and are essentially "automated".

    Taking a 3 point tower base that has A point inside of it goes down like this:

    1. Take/try to take B & C and let the base capture timer count down.
    2. Try to take A over and over again.
    3. Get pushed off of the base by the defenders.
    Players waste HOURS of gameplay trying to take the A point.

    Tower bases with A point inside them just turn into farm fests where people come to farm & get farmed, and that is probably the main reason why people "like" them since thats all they know & now associate towers with. Players are basically brainwashed when it comes to towers and are willing to hit their heads on the wall repeatedly trying to take those bases.

    There is no "variety" when the fights play out text book style.

    The battles focus on the Tower and only the Tower itself. Fights are not spread out around the base.

    Tower bases with A point outside of the tower have better fights for both the attackers and defenders, since everyone can spread out and fight around the base at all 3 points, rather then be sardine canned into the Tower focusing on A point(see what I did there?).
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________


    DBG can fix this, and actually over time you can see they already have been making moves to.
    • Towers have more protection internally & externally.
    • 1 point Tower bases do not have A point inside of them.
    • Koltyr's tower bases do not have A point inside of them & have fantastic layouts.
    • The Crown & Crossroads Watchtower had A point removed from the Tower & placed in a nearby structure with amazing success. A SCU was added to where A point formerly was.
    DBG can finally fix the problem with A point being inside the Tower itself, they know what to do & how to do it.

    Tower bases with A point inside of them have caused alot of damage to the game.
    • It has made players leave the game overtime(grinding down the playerbase) due to getting farmed & how the fights happen.
    • Caused people to hate vehicles/aircraft, which also caused a ripple effect in getting the vehicles/aircraft nerfed overtime
    • Slowed down Map Flow around the continents and in some cases made it come to a screeching halt.
    • Promoted Farming, both external(attackers farming defenders) and internal(defenders farming attackers trying to get to A point in the tower.)
    • Showed bad game design/gameplay & made the developers look incompetent.
    All in all Towers with A point inside them have caused a boatload of problems for the game,whether the players or the devs admit it or not.
  14. BlueSkies

    Ah... one of those "I know better than everyone else" things.

    And of course the biolab finally got brought back in. Guess it shouldn't be a shocker, you complaining about bases where shelling infantry fighting over the point is intentionally difficult.

    Heres a task. Make a list of the bases that people flock to attack/defend (so things like Towers, Biolabs, NC Arsenal, Waterson's Redemption, etc. Then consider what these bases have in common.
















    I'll give ya a hint: They act like actual bases and offer protection from... something.






    That being said, and as I said earlier, having some towers with 3 points, or 1 point, A within, A without, all of the variations provide... what was it... oh right, variety. If you don't like the design of a particular base don't go there. You aren't actually required to follow the big 96+ zerg around.
  15. InsaneLinguist

    This is the first time I've seen anyone blaming map layout for killing the game.
    • Players leaving the game over time is to be expected, every on-line game goes through this, bad design of the bases (problem since day 1) is not the only culprit here. Overpowered gear has caused more players to leave the game than anything else--in the heyday of ZOE roughly half of the player base have left never to return.
    • Vehicles and aircraft were overpowered as hell at launch, bad base design only added to that problem. Drivers and especially pilots being a**holes didn't endear them to the rest of the community either.
    • Big, long, clusterf**k battles are what makes Planetside unique, in the original Planetside there were battles over a single base that lasted for DAYS.
    • Farming was/is encouraged by the way cert gain is tied to experience point gain.
    • Current base design was bad from the start, if they haven't fixed it now they never will. The game has more glaring problems than base design.
    Even if all towers had their A point removed from the inside, it wouldn't stop people from zerging.
  16. FateJH

    My only comtribution will be restatement of the obvious fact that Scr1nRusher wrote a post that was more than a few sentences or a collection of information leading to an unspoken point. In fact, one might even call it a "long post that makes an argument." This astoundingly rare occurrence should not be overlooked by anyone regardless of how you regard his typical positions.
  17. Scr1nRusher

    In a way it will. Habits are hard to quit, but the beauty of us humans is that we adapt over time.

    Tower bases with A points inside them have historically created zergs.(I also explained why)

    "map layout'? We are talking about base design.

    So focus on the Towers with A points inside them & how they effected the game(and players over time), rather then jump around like you were doing.

    Focus.
  18. InsaneLinguist

    What I meant by 'map layout' was how the base is laid out. I must've missed it when typing.
    Thanks for pointing this out.
  19. ronjahn

    If people didn't enjoy crowding into a spam fest tower, they wouldn't do it. Considering that every tower fight that has A point inside turns into a giant cluster**** probably means that people enjoy it.

    Subterranian Nanites base is a prime example of a ****** base that has a point inside a base. The base is broken as hell in my opinion and I hate fighting there. That doesn't stop every attack on that base turning into a giant cluster**** of 96+ zergs on both sides.

    You may not like the crowded farms, but obviously a large portion of the player base does, or else they wouldn't happen on a daily basis.

    Plus your making it sound as if defenders don't stand a chance, when in fact it's actually much easier to get ridiculous kill streaks and SPH while defending a tower, not attacking, if you know what your doing.
    • Up x 3
  20. Ras Ta


    This, so much, this.