Like Needles In My Eyes (1)

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Jal Calan, Nov 3, 2013.

  1. Iosef Stalin

    This is a perfect suggestion, but to make sure; Keep the bases, their cap points, and the roles of those cap points on a route. the bases do provide for good combat zones, and can be useful if you own the turrets of said bases. Just remove all of the outpost spawn points. Keep the "Big three" (Vanu Archives, J908, and The Stronghold), Keep a few border posts (Quartz Ridge, Regent Rock, the one that is across from regent rock, and a few of the cliff posts between the dried sea and the highland) and keep all towers. Other little outposts are just a waste of time, so remove their spawn points.
    • Up x 2
  2. Serafine

    Just make all outpost/watchtower cap points like the mini cap points at Amerish.
    -> They can be capped within 20 seconds (10 down, 10 up) and then you get access to the terminals and towers of that installation but they do NOT switch any territories. Basically get rid of all the smaller territories and leave just the major facilities.
  3. Blarg20011

    Although I do not agree with all the bases you want eliminated, I wholeheartedly agree with the spirit of the suggestion, plus one to you good sir.
    • Up x 6
  4. TheRunDown

    Everyone one from PlanetSide 1 hates PlanetSide 2.. including me.. but I keep playing for some reason -.-
    • Up x 9
  5. Sneaky

    Great idea. BUT

    I don't think they should get ride of the little outposts. The way the maps is currently built, the smaller outposts scatter the faction's forces over larger areas, this allows factions with lower populations to potentially take advantage of asymmetry in higher populated factions troop distribution, which gives lower populated factions a bit of a chance if they can coordinate. If (for example) indar were to be changed as suggested there would only be bio-lab/techplant/amp station battles, realistically there would be very little in-between combat.

    What they should do is keep the tiny outposts - and the resource benefits, but scrap most of the lattice system and make the capturing of outposts entirely influence based again. Battle lanes can be encouraged (but not enforced) with influence and clever UI work.

    Here are some of the new behaviors I'm thinking of:
    small outposts - most of the tiny bases scattered around the map
    medium outpost - larger bases/forts that are either usual points of interest, or particularly fun places to fight; like the crown.
    Large facilites - techplants/amp stations/biolabs

    - Spawn tubes are destructible.

    For small outposts:

    - If a small outpost is captured all the utilities (terminals, resource points, turrets) change teams, spawn room is not activated.

    - If a small outpost is only connected to outposts from your empire, then it becomes fully captured and you are able to spawn there.

    - Small outposts spawn rooms are not shielded with one way doors and pain-fields

    For medium outposts:

    - If a medium facility is captured everything changes teams and spawn rooms are usable (but not necessarily activated)

    - At medium bases, spawn rooms are powered externally by a generator

    - Medium bases' spawn rooms have shields that are powered by the generator(s)

    For large facilities:

    - If a large facility is captured, everything changes teams

    - Large facility have permanently shielded spawn rooms and empire specific pain-fields (How it is now)

    - (For probably years from now) Warpgates are locked until empire has no territories

    What I'm imagining will happen is the small outposts being used as places to push to as your team works toward a large main facility. As they would be much easier to capture, there would be far more small base turn-over. While places like the crown would still be relatively harder to capture than other places - SO WHAT!? those battles are a lot of fun. Anyways because of the quicker base turnover, the momentum of pushes would not stop as much at small outposts - instead they would drive through using a recently captured outpost as more of a resupply point (as you cant spawn on front line outposts anymore). The distance between places you can spawn would be much greater and people would then need to strategize for 1000m skirmishes instead of the 200m- battles that are happening now.

    I'm not proof reading that..
    • Up x 2
  6. NDroid

    I agree that there isn't enough terrain between bases. In some cases you can fight for an outpost while being shot by turrets from the next one. There's rarely an opportunity to have a decent fight in between them despite those being often the most fun.

    It's most obvious on Indar but seeing as how that's where most fights are held these days the problem becomes more obvious. Esamir is better although the bases are still too clustered around the middle of the map. Amerish has more distance between bases but I find the map design itself to be less fun, too many narrow valleys and tall mountains that mostly create bottlenecks. Finally, Hossin has fewer outposts which are well designed but again they're simply too close to each other. If they keep the current number of bases but expand the map size it might become the best continent yet.

    As for the solutions you proposed, I suppose it can be a mixture of both. Some of them can be simply removed without anyone missing them (I still don't know why NS Research Labs exists for example), others can be slightly redesigned and used as semi-neutral fighting areas or they can still provide a benefit like radar coverage and resource gain without them being made into an additional base that must be captured to continue advancing.
    • Up x 3
  7. Deteno

    I read both your posts and found them well thought out but I wasn't quite sure I agreed completely so I started doing some thinking. The initial thrill of finally playing Planetside again has begun wearing off and I'm not really enjoying the game as much as I had hoped I would. Lag aside, one of the big issues I keep running into is that, as you said, the battles don't really feel like these massive things like they did in PS1. I loved getting stuck in with a major battle, I usually played Medic and kept the fight rolling forward but once in a blue moon I'd find a Magrider that needed a gunner and had a decent pilot and we would decimate the enemy, practically sniping tanks with the Rain Beam. The problem I just noticed earlier with Planetside 2 is that the battles really don't have any inertia. You'll have masses of people and tanks on both sides, Sunderers rolling around setting up to keep reconstructing people, lots of bullets flying in all directions, and for a few moments you really start to feel like you're part of an epic war. But then the Sunderers will get taken out and the attackers will be repulsed. From there I revive at the nearest outpost to prepare for the counter attack or launch the next wave only to find I'm the only one there. The entire fight just kind of vanishes a lot of the time if the assault fails once. Then I spend five to fifteen minutes just sort of stumbling around wondering where the hell everyone is before getting fed up and quitting for the day. It seems the only way to find a real battle is to get stuck in with the zerg and that isn't exactly satisfying, especially when as you mentioned it ends up just a whole bunch of people loafing around killing anyone dumb or crazy enough to poke their head outside the spawn with sheer weight of numbers.

    So all in all, I think you hit the nail on the head with both posts. As much as I'd like to see some changes to bring back the epic scale of the first game, I just don't think it's gonna happen. It just seems like such a huge change and I'm not sure it's the Planetside 1 types that they're trying to bring in. Today's shooters seem to be made with the Modern Warfare crowd in mind, people who want to up their kill/death ratio by out-twitching the other guy with lots of glitz and glamor and big numbers popping up all the time to congratulate you on your accomplishments. As much as I dislike that kind of gameplay, there's nothing explicitly wrong with it, It's just different. Maybe folks like us just aren't the intended demographic anymore.
    • Up x 1
  8. HuntingMaseTv

  9. amazinnblazin

    This makes so much sense, I knew we were missing something but this pretty much covers it all.
    • Up x 2
  10. Ronin Oni

    I'd pull a few bases...

    but not that many.... goddamn
    • Up x 1
  11. evansra

    Benefits I can see to this are -

    Much less spawn camping, who does not want that. the current spawn/camping system is awful :p

    Infils would have more to hack and be more valuable as a result, bonus in my book :)

    Sundies will be used to essentially cap the smaller bases meaning strategic attacks will be rewarded and have a noticeable impact on the battle flow with less waiting around for the base to flip.

    I would like to see the small outposts keep there turrets and inventory terms tho to give some value to holding them...
    • Up x 2
  12. ShadowAquilaX

    Yes it all sounds great and all, but you forget that Higby said (I think it was in the first or second episode of Command Center) they're not making a Planetside "sequel" of even a "remake". They're making a new game with a touch of Planetside. Which is where I think they failed.

    I really like this idea though. I think the game would have been more interesting if it had followed that guideline.
    • Up x 2
  13. John_Aitc

    (I think the following statement is correct)

    I am not sure how this played into the decision of more bases, but I think their BI metrics tell them that the average PS2 player plays for 2.n hours.

    It sounds like in a 2 hour play period, I could expect to not accomplish anything meaningful. Maybe this is the shorter attention span of younger players or the aging PS1 players that have more important things to do at home besides game.

    I am just plaaying devils advocate here, I support the idea of lattice only connecting major bases. I would love a battle area between bases where there could be epic 'Battle of the Bulge' style Tank v Tank fights.
    • Up x 1
  14. Jbn0s0rus

    I agree to a certain point with you OP, but I'll be making my own thread with a bunch of ideas and thoughts on Ps2 gameplay, including the outposts number and placement.
  15. Bill

    Original Planetside were much better game with much more of fun to offer, with Planetside 2 I blame need for dumbified console usage, and how new generation of devs isn't creative or don't use brain cells the way they could to.
  16. sometenrandom

    I constantly find myself saying STOP CAMPING FALL BACK A ND REGROUP to the players but they just don't get it.
    • Up x 3
  17. Rhumald

    This is some radical suggested changes, but, I wholeheartedly support it. Even with some vast differences between army sizes, those large bases are where most of the real battles are at, and the terrain in between them would be a hell of a lot more interesting if no one spawned from it, just used it as cover, and would give both sides, no matter the size of the army, plenty of time to recover once they've broken a push or succeeded in capturing a base.

    You could even leave some of those turrets on a few of the small outposts without making any changes to their mechanics, except that they be neutral unless occupied, and faction locked few minutes if an infiltrator hacks it. this gives both armies choices, do you destroy the turrets before rolling past to prevent the enemy from using them against you, or do you hunker down in them for a temporary advantage in the upcoming fight?

    I would like to add to this; small outposts should be added to the warp-gates, to prepare for continent locking; This will make the warp-gates the final big push/defense point on a map (current small bases outside the warp-gates would break the flow between the final large base and the warp-gates).

    Finally, I think you should at least try vehicle spawns, except flashes, and flashes alone, as a from warp-gate only thing. This will mean that it almost won't matter if the vehicles spawn timers at all; losing a vehicle will seriously set a player and faction back, in the slow tug of war towards the enemy warpgate. as a bonus, it'll make sorting out actual balance issues really easy, as it will force people to very clearly define their roles in a battle before setting off towards it, because switching "on the fly" will not be anywhere near as easy.

    I'd just like to use your comment to clarify intent, it looks like he's suggesting removing them as capturable points, turning them into neutral structures instead. This turns them into a place to commit to a field battle, removes any potential for spawn camping, and forces you to think about how you're going to make the trip between each of the major bases, because any loses around those neutral zones will have more of an impact on you.
    • Up x 1
  18. Tolas

    I have never played ps1 before, but ps2 is nothing like i pictured it.

    The changes you suggested is exactly what i was hoping to see in ps2, instead i get what appears to be a pathetic attempt to cater to cod player and battlefield players while insulting the intelligence of the veteran players and failing at satisfying any.

    props to OP's post as it basically sums up everything i was feeling was wrong but couldnt quite pin point exactly the causes.
    • Up x 4
  19. Brasidas

    I imagine that if we had lockable warpgates and this kind of suggested gameplay then even for the more casual player this would be an improvement. I reckon that in the end the community will make use of the tools given to them, so if we have the freedom to have large strategic engagements then we will have outfits and platoons stepping up to the plate to lead the charge.

    The current system feels more like they are trying to funnel everyone into fights so it only supports mindless zerging, rather than any sort of strategic depth. If there is a push going on then you will see multiple open platoons etc running and people just jumping into it can and will find a much more engaging large scale fight than endless spawn camping.
    • Up x 1
  20. NovaAustralis

    Agree so much!