Liberators OP Once Again!

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Malebranche, Oct 18, 2019.

  1. iller

    Ehh... they need a really exceptional Gunning crew to fight off even one decent ESF pilot and even with its overpowered Afterburners + Racer cheese, a Lib can totally get DUNKED on by a Hornet ESF while fleeing only 1,000km back to their warpgate. 2 mediocre ESF's with the old school Lockons will also be a high probability Gameover for the Lib crew unless an allied Skyknight intervenes in which case it just goes back to a 3 on 2 outmanned situation which the Lib was going to win anyway even if they were a Shredder or Duster loadout too

    Yes, this is all flawed logic to some people because it presumes several dozen hours of Pre-existing time in the Air to even COUNTER a Lib crew at even numbers. But lets be honest with ourselves... Veterans are all that's LEFT still playing this game and if you haven't gotten at least as much time with an ESF as I have by now (and I'm just Awful at it), then you were NEVER taking the airgame serious at any point in this game's lifespan to begin with
  2. Exileant

    :confused: Seriously? If you cannot get a Liberator off of you in their weakened state, you need to have it destroyed.... Sunderers can CLOAK. It made no sense for a Liberator to have to make 50 flipping passes to kill1 of 3 uncerted trucks. :eek: The ones that have the time and love put into them should be the only ones that get to be parked blatantly out in the open.... :( I do not even fly them anymore and I have 0 complaints.... :mad: You all are being unreasonable....
  3. adamts01

    I'm all for making flying more accessible, but results need to correspond to the difficulty of using the weapon. Take qcb bolt actions for example, high skill ceiling and high reward. Now look at unstable ammo, low skill ceiling and low results. The same goes for the Halberd vs the basilisk. The Dalton has the highest skill ceiling, and deserves the highest reward. It's a very, very simple formula that all successful games use, and the air lock vs Lib balance is way off. I'm not saying airfbshould be noseguns or go home. I'm a huge proponent of an intermediate nose gun with a slight aim assist. What I am saying is that someone skilled with a default nose gun should absolutely beat someone skilled with Coyotes or my suggested aim assist gun. The whole point of competitive games is competition. Skill vs skill. This holds true for computer games, football, martial arts, chess, dodge ball... You name it. It just works.
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  4. LordKrelas

    It might just be what that Dalton is Mounted to: A heavily armored, Fast & Agile Aircraft packing 3 Weapon systems & a Booster.
    An Infiltrator with a Bolt-Action, at least doesn't pack a Heavy-Assault's Shield Generator with a Max's Durability, moving at the speed of a Harasser.
    As who had the bright idea to mount the apparent largest cannon to an aircraft that also manages some Horse **** level of armor, for the speed of that thing, paired with 2 additional weapons, for the same price of an MBT - With more guns than any Ground-unit.

    But I do agree on the Skill vs Skill, sadly lacking for the most part in G2A & A2G.
    Perhaps though, It's the fact the Dalton, is a brutal weapon mounted on a Flying-Tank, and has some of the scariest AV damage, that also can One-shot the aircraft meant to engage it.
    Maybe need to adjust How well armed, or armored, These High-speed machines are: As little can run from a Liberator.

  5. Liewec123

    It takes less than 2 mags of the auto-aim hyena missiles to kill an ESF, (no skill required)
    it only takes one mag to set it on fire so if they aren't running fire suppression you can end it in seconds.

    I so often see libs get ganked by skyknights and try to dogfight or ram and I just don't get why,
    Because hyena missiles will ruin an esf far faster than an esf can chip down a lib.

    Just fly away in a straight line and nuke the esf with hyenas, so easy.
    • Up x 1
  6. TR5L4Y3R

    yea i´m not friggin dissaggreing with this but the current weaponballance leaves next to no choice for a weapon to go with other than pure dumpfire ..

    coyotes against either ESF or liberator are utter scrap in dealing damage per salvo .. like i´m not even bothering on counting how much salvos it requires to take down a lib (also VR continueing to be unwilling on spawning all vehicles ... ffs) even just as additional fire, it´s pathetic .. pods can take out an esf in one and a half mag, coyotes need 5 full salvos ... were as lib and gal hyenas need less than 3! mags AND even are usefull vs armored groundvehicles! ....

    a2a missiles from what i tested yesterday still require 7 shots on a default liberator of which the libpilot can both turbo out or negate with flares and has PLENTY of time to land the dalton oneshot ..
    a2a missiles against esfs are next to useless on how quick the opponent can get out of the lockaim and even then easily dodge the missiles AND then again it takes 5 to 6 missiles to down a ESF

    hornets at least take 2 salvos against an esf .. which i think is fair ..
    but against libs it takes 10! full shots (so 5 salvos) against a lib .. a weapon that is even more difficult to land than with A2A locks AND you have to lead them into target ..

    a wyrm however can both fight libs and esf no problem ...

    this isn´t about being competitive ... this is about to be capable in the first place, but the balance for aircombat (as well as ground lacking AA options) is just sooooo out of wack ....

    coyotes should be able to take out a esf in 3, 4 salvos MAX and libs in 6,7 salvos MAX

    A2A missiles should be able to kill esf in 2 salvos for how quick and mobile esfs are, libs should be able to be taken out in 3 salvos but 3 hand a half is .. okay-ish ...

    hornets also should be able to kill a lib in 3 salvos
  7. adamts01

    The single problem with not only air/air but also ground to air, is that this game plays rock paper scissors with hard counters, and it just so happens that the hard counter to Libs is a noob weapon, and the counters to air (flak, ground locks) are more noob weapons. That's why there can never be balance as long as we have these mechanics, because you can't make noob weapons competitive with high skill ceiling weapons. That's why I constantly argue to change the mechanics of things. Air locks always have to suck as long as they're so easy to use, same wyith Coyotes, flak, Hyenahs and unstable ammo.
  8. InexoraVC

    Libs are hunting esfs now. At least Miller's players Mepulan, Daddy01NC and others are constantly flying libs and destroying 3-5 ESFs in a row. Dalton's projectiles are very fast, and LIBs are fast enough to get closer to Scythes and destroy them
  9. TR5L4Y3R

    i have to disagree completely with your statemeant,
    flak hardly kills libs, coyotes as mentioned before are utter scrap, the next best option right now is the wyrm (and rather walker for ground) ... the noob weapons aren´t effective as they should be ..
    these weapons NEED to be ballanced they NEED to be capable otherwise there is NO point in ever certing into them and beginners and novices will simply continue to be frustrated with the airgame and scrappy air controls if chosing to fly themselves.. ..

    STOP looking at this game as being TRYHARD competitive ... IT CAN`T BE competitive in that sense by its very nature of throwing players of any level toghether .. otherwise it needed to be closed off via lobbys and a ranked matchmaker which this sandboxgame can´t have ..

    let me reitarate this ... this is a sandboxgame, players play however they wish .. this has both advantages and downsides ..
    the clear downside .. not every player may focus on a goal that may have "objective" priority (winning the meltdown alert f.e.) because each and every player sets his own goals .. the advantage is because every player has "fun" in a different way they CAN chose how they want to play, this is what this game provides ...
    however because of the sandboxy nature of this game and lack of ranked mode or matchmaker you may have in smaller games that are focused on competiveness there is a lack of ways to "guide" the player ... i´m not speaking about handholding or teaching the game ... i´m speaking about putting the player into a fair matchlike enviromeant were he can compete against players that fit his capability .. which is NOT possible with this game cause no player is propperly rated .. meaning there is a lack of capability for a player to steadily get to improve himself through practice ... (platoons and clans do not suffice)

    and again exactly because of this reason a beginner/novice player needs options that can help him compensate for his initial lack of AIM (not neccesarily simply skill because aiming itself is A skill but there a much more factors one can be "skilled" at)
    the arguemeant of "veteran can use that option, too" doesn´t matter, simply because the veteran already MAY HAVE the experience neccesary to use more difficult but ultimately more effective weapons if he so choses ..
  10. adamts01

    There's nothing tryhard about it. It's very simple. The work that you put in should equal the results you get. I'm all for having easier weapons for noobs to use, but your goal of equality of outcome is just awful. That just leads to frustration. And yeah, it's a sand box, and the option those noobs have is picking their fight and using numbers. My argument isn't that AA is effective enough, because it isn't, we deserve AA that can secure kills. My argument is that for as easy as it is to use, AA is too powerful. Which is why I argue for changes to mechanics. Let tryhard AP tanks and decimators be OHK AA, let noobish flak and lock ons only be a real threat in groups, and give is a medium-skill direct fire AA option for the majority of players. Tweaking no-skill weapons to be competitive with high-skill weapons is a recipe for disaster.
  11. TR5L4Y3R

    i´m NOT asking for them to be competitive, they are not CAPABLE is what saying .. (and where the foook where they equal in my proposal?)
    even 3 esfs with coyotes can´t damage another ESF enough for a kill .. a lib laughs its butt off on them and even with only the 2 gunners are capable enough compared to the esfs .. even with hornets 3 esfs can not down a lib in one salvo .. FRIGGIN SAME with A2A locks they at best get the lib on a burning state (UNLIKE HORNETS!) .... this is not competive neither ballanced at all .. this is just plain scrap ...
    3! esfs vs ONE lib ... with how powerful and resilient the lib is it makes just more sense to pull it for AA duty instead of a ESF ..
    and unless you are in a specialised platoon, unless you are in a coordinated squad (lol), unless air anomalies is going on you won´t have more than one more wingman alongside with you because of how much a PITA flying an esf is ..

    3 ESFs vs one lib no matter what should be overkill to the lib unless the libcrew is like superpro ..
    2 ESF should be capable of taking on a lib and have to fight it a bit ... they can only do that with noseguns and wyrms ... maybe pods which are actualy meant for AI (have to test them vs libs again, they are definetively usefull vs ESF) .. but for that they need to be GOOD at flying .. merely decent doesn´t cut it ..

    also by the way the wyrm IS that medium skillweapon you asked for it fires slower than walker and noseguns in rate of fire .. maybe slightly faster as flaks but its projektilespeed is slow ..
    so there is A option that may as well be put on vehicles ... cool, right? ..
    heck i would count pods as mediumskill, cause they fullfill the dumbfire and limited ammo per mag but still strong criteria ..

    hornets imo are not an easy weapon to use, yes you can guide them but that´s a doubleedged sword (any laser/wireguide weapon for that matter) as you can´t switch to your nosegun as you will lose the guidancefunctionality and their projectile speed is very slow .. and that makes them just that much more frustrating to take on other aircraft with when they do not deliver the damage they should have ..

    however low skill AA weapons for the ESF are still simply BUTT .. .. there is just no point in certing into them with how extremely underperforming they are .. no point in certing into coyotes, no point into certing into lock on missiles ...

    straight up BS .. i can´t disagree any more drastically ..

    they aren´t even that at the moment and more often than not you simply won´t get the numbers neccesary ...
    primary reason being that most of these weapons lack in versatility thus most players simply not choosing to use them ..
    meaning one player on his own or 2 wont do much to nothing at all .... AT BEST you have 2 skyguards ..

    specifically for infantry you need more classes with AA capability to even get the numbers ... maxes require to be resilient enough to be capable doing AA and AV duty outside of a stupid spawnroom ...

    so unless that changes esf will continue to just bail once they get a bit of ground AA fire ..
    and libs will laugh their butt off at insignificant AA but 2 skyguards and spawnroom AA ...

    the whole state regarding general AA combat is nothing but pathetic ...
  12. Scroffel5

    Aight, listen up chil'ren. This is how we fix the Liberators and ESF. Make Flak way more deadly. If you start getting hit by Flak and you can still stick around to fight, thats not fair at all. Here is what happens with current Flak. You shoot Libs. They stay around for a little bit. Then they fly away, repair, and come back to blow you up. Buff Flak damage, accuracy, and range, and boom, Libs shall fear. Then add an anti air primary weapon or secondary weapon that all classes can use. Make sure the Flash gets an anti air weapon, make sure every other vehicle gets an anti air weapon, make one by default for sunderers. Boom. Fixed.
  13. TR5L4Y3R

    flak doesn´t need a buff against air, what flak needs is to not suck when used against anything that isn´t air .. something the walker does .. 2 skyguards can deal with a lib and easily with a esf (using just one flak is were it is tough), they are also capable of selfdefense with them against vehicles to a degree ...
    ranger vehicles however are not ..
    burster maxxes are even more laughable because they cause NO damage to heavy armor at all and maxxes in general need to be more capable to survive outside of bases ...

    at best flak could be more precise on range with a tighter cone of fire but that´s realy it imho ..

    other than that vehicles simply need more AAoptions (hornets with propper damage to libs, pods and hyenas)
    and some vehicleturrets could get a higher pitch as well like the saron or halberd f.e, maybe gatekeeper and enforcer

    as for infantry
    i did mention that both medics and infils shout get access to rockletrifles as primaries, they are capable of antiair even if with limited range ...
    engineerturrets need higher pitch aswell as there being one or 2 more options (pod/hyena or flak and halberdesque or maybe ESvariants) and the engineer should have a ASP option for rocketlaunchers and the rockletrifle ..

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