Liberator vs AA

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by tigerchips, Jan 31, 2014.

  1. tigerchips

    There is a huge game flaw. The Liberator can go up past the range of Anti-Air. Which means that AA is useless, and the Libs can simply fire on anything they like without fear.
    • Up x 1
  2. Hatesphere

    not true unless the only AA you are talking about is lock on launchers. the AA turrets can touch it at flight ceiling, and so can skygaurds.
    • Up x 9
  3. EmperorPenguin5

    Troll post we shall ignore....
    Or a blatant dumb dumb who died to a lib and is raging about it...
    • Up x 12
  4. Gundem

    Realistically, most/all ground based AA needs its range neutered. 300 meters tops. Currently, hardly anything is more annoying then having AA turrets/Burster MAX's/Basilisks plink away at your HP from +1000m away.
    • Up x 5
  5. Hatesphere

    flack and skygaurd should keep their range. lockons should all be set to 300m.
    • Up x 3
  6. MFP_TK_01

    • Up x 1
  7. Gundem

    Except that its not fixed, flak is supposed to be a "Deterrent", not "Blow everything out of the sky in sight".

    The problem(At least for Lib pilots like myself) is though is that Flak has way to far an effective range, so far that it doesn't render, so far that you have no idea where it is and simply cannot react, let alone get out of range.
  8. Hatesphere

    no idea where it is coming from other then the damage indicator indicating the direction of the attack? fly in the other direction. liming player aimed AA to 300m. leaves libs to dominate from flight ceiling. in most situations a lib can see a skygaurd from the same distance the skygaurd can see it and unleash its doltan on that skygaurd.
  9. njkk

    Twin gun AA max takes a long time to kill a liberator.
  10. Azimaith

    Lock ons need a range beyond infantry render so they can lock onto targets passing overhead. If your going 100kph your going to be going like 27.7 m/s meaning you will be out of range in a flash.

    Flak being a deterrent was worthless when it was first that way and would return AA to worthlessness again. If all flak can do is make you go away to repair, it becomes an exercise in total futility and the air farm will begin anew, not to mention how it would devastate low intensity conflict.

    Flak needs to be lethal and the ESF and Liberator need to change their method of attack (not their tactics necessarily) to match. ESF and Liberators should work like strike aircraft, penetrating the Air Defense Curtain for a very limited period of time to attack before rushing off. This is how they should interact with AA, trying to score kills by planning out an attack run and acting on it. ESF and Liberators need to be changed to fit this role including increases in diving speed, basic after burners for Liberators, a change from liberator guns to bombs, enhanced spotting that feeds information to air pilots even at high altitude, and a conservation of diving speed for longer. All of this should be combined with an enhanced flight ceiling that always allows ESF and Liberators to have an area above the flak, even at mountainous areas such as in Amerish.

    Furthermore, ESF and Liberator weapons should be focused on low tolerance for error, high burst weaponry that can be deployed in a single pass.

    If they can fix the netcode, it would be great if ground targets didn't take so long to render even when in render distance.

    The solution is not to nerf flak. Flak needs to be there to punish hoverpodding and overextension. There needs to be an area where flak can be lethal to pilots who make mistakes.
  11. WTSherman

    If it couldn't reliably kill you it wouldn't deter you very much now would it?
    • Up x 3
  12. JustARandomNobody

    With the cone of fire a sky guard has combined with trying to lead a target that far/high.... you might hit 10% or your shots at that altitude if you are decent. I imagine AA turrets and max bursters are the same if not worse. The spread is just too terrible to really be a threat to high altitude targets. You are more just saying 'Hi I am here come blow me away next pass' trying to hit them.
  13. Hatesphere

    nope. at the flight ceiling 500m, the skygaurd is completely capable of hitting more then 50% of it shots, you just cant lead.
    • Up x 1
  14. JustARandomNobody

    Post like this make me sigh, because posting this stupid has to be a troll. I hope. You do realize what deterrent means right? It means it poses enough of a threat to make you not want to do something. Not it makes you leave after pwning ground newbs for 5 minutes, but as in you are fearful to even try it. Do you honestly think being annoying is good enough?Haha! Some of the people on these boards! When I read post like this they sound like: 'AIR MASTER RACE BEST RACE GROUND RACE INFERIOR PEONS SHOULD NEVER BE ABLE TO STAND UP TO OUR MIGHT EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD NEED TEAMWORK BUT NOT AIR MASTER RACE'.

    I will agree that render range is a massive problem (it has been since... beta... forever...). Infantry and vehicles CANNOT have separate render distances if they are attacking each other as there is then no way to PROPERLY balance the two. Too bad Sony is either completely incapable of fixing it or simply chooses to ignore it. I know I have been complaining about it since beta. It would be nice to have even a more reliable infantry rendering. It really sucks how you can be shot and killed by even a sniper that is outside your render range while you are in a big fight because he is on the outskirts and thus has a longer render distance. Dynamic and separate render distances was an awful choice imo.
    • Up x 1
  15. JustARandomNobody

    Because everyone on the map has a 500 meter ceiling right?
  16. Hatesphere

    what point are you trying to make? most of the time aircraft have less then 500m to work with.
    • Up x 1
  17. Axehilt

    Ground-based AA is mostly fine. By design it will never (nor should never) consistently get kills against Liberators. The ideal is something like:
    • Liberators strongly counter ground forces.
    • G2A should apply constant zone-out pressure against Liberators. (Which of course will kill bad or reckless Liberator pilots, but the ones playing correctly will balance the amount of time they spend exposed to ground-based AA.)
    • But A2A is required to reliably kill a Liberator.
    If ground-based AA needs one thing it's an alternate firing mode for flak which actually shoots accurate projectiles instead of the spray-n-RNG method available now. Basically the skill ceiling for flak is disappointingly low, to the point where an expert player who perfectly leads his target doesn't really get much for it because he's at the whims of RNG. (This applies mainly to Phalanx AA and Bursters; Skyguards are pretty reliably.) Naturally the alternate firing mode might have a slightly slower rate of fire, but it at least would allow an expert to be more rewarded for leading their target perfectly.

    Really the big imbalance with Liberators is their ability to kill ESFs (ESFs should be their counter.) Between a Liberator's speed, agility, and the bomber turrets' capabilities against ESFs, Liberators do a little too well against ESFs and an ESF has very little room for error to kill a Liberator. With most counters in PS2, you can be slightly less skilled than your opponent and win (because naturally you choose the counter to what they pulled.) But with ESFs you essentially need to be equally skilled to reliably beat a Lib. I guess I feel a top speed reduction is the single change that makes the most sense. Nerfing the bomber weapons against ESFs specifically might be good, but one change at a time (none of us wants another Harasser triple-nerf.)
    • Up x 1
  18. Sigmundr Rumare

    I wouldn't mind AA lock-ons having a reduction in efficiency if bases' AA capabilities were boosted (hell most bases don't even HAVE stationary AA turrets). This is would imply a logic of stationary defenses are more powerful than mobile. I would also like to see an armor boost if considered reasonable on base turrets because as it stands they're a little too easy to take down even with the type of unit they're made to counter.

    I'd also like all base turrets to get a very slow version of nanite auto-repair (like 10-20 minutes to fully repair), because it's stupid that the one lib looking for easy xp 3 hours ago made it where all your turrets were down already when you went to defend that base.
    • Up x 1
  19. Pikachu

    Donno Aboyt that lock range. Pesky ESF are anniying enough as it is. I think their G2A lock on relationship is fine.
  20. Hatesphere

    we need to push lock on range to 300m but make the lock on faster. punish ESFs for flying in to close. flack and skygaurd should be the only AA to reach past 300m IMO.
    • Up x 1