[Suggestion] Liberator: -50% Damage vs. Air Armor Types

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Insignus, Jan 30, 2017.

  1. NubCannon

    I kinda agree with what you're saying, except hitting a good esf pilot is very difficult. if anything, the libs roll ability should be nerfed and the tankbuster should be nerfed, or just straight up removed, its kills MBTs faster than tank mines (not really but they arent that far apart.) also how come the TR MBT ability doesn't help against air. the NC get a shield that can save them from the tankbuster. magrider can run away from the tankbuster. prowler's only hope is seeing the lib and being able to shoot it down in less time than it can kill. not gonna happen.

    Prowler's lockdown should be replaced with something more like the VS max ability:

    rank 1 should increase movement speed 10% and reload speed 12% for 10 seconds, but after the 10 seconds, movement speed and reload speed both receive a 20% reduction in addition to a 10-20% increase in damage taken. until the 60 second cooldown is complete
    rank 2 should increase movement speed 13% and reload 24% for 11 seconds, cool down for 55 seconds
    rank 3 move speed 16% reload speed 36% 12 seconds. cooldown for 50 seconds
    rank 4 move speed 20% reload speed 48% for 15 seconds. cool down for 45 seconds

    I don't believe this would be too overpowered, because as the game sits now, it takes approximately 13 seconds to kill a vangaurd (with shield) while in lockdown with its 48% reload speed bonus.

    Additionally, this game needs more Anti Air stuff, or the stuff we have in the game needs to actually be able to kill things. with the AAturret nerf, ive found that even though i can rarely hit them, ive killed more ESFs, libs, and galaxies with my prowler than i've even been able to hit in the AA base turrets. As for the G30 and G40 AA guns, they're annoying, but unless in large groups, not incredibly good at stopping air. This leaves the sky guard all alone as the only effective AA gun (except maybe S to A lockons, though those are tough to get kills with too as any good ESF pilot is going to take 3 to kill (between fire suppression and flares) and maybe the lasher, but honestly ive not seen the lasher being used in months.)
    In large battles where there are more than 3 aircraft (which is like every large battle in the game) 1 skygaurd may be able to annoy the air for a minute or two, maybe kill 1 esf. but as soon as the air gets over being shot at, that lightning is dead, not to mention tankbusters. Tank buster VS skyguard, skyguard doesn't stand a chance, at all, ever.
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  2. Tar

    I actually think the tailgun missiles (hyena or whatever they're called) on the lib are pretty good against ESFs

    What I don't like is how well the libs can keep up in speed with the ESFs, the fighter should be much faster than the bomber ( so this is not a nerf call, if anything it's a buyff call for ESFs).
  3. Fishpoke

    Yea the lib's role is kinda nonexistant as g2a support with the exception of the dalton vs MBTs and the ever fragile ESF. I'd love to see the nose gun removed from lib, buff the projectile speeds for all weapons by several factors, increase clip sizes and reduce damage and increase splash on AI weapons..

    Stop catering to infantry. This isn't an infantry game, combined arms. Hello. If I wanted 64v64 play done right I'd be playing battlefield, stop trying to compete with them because you guys will fail if you dont stop this infantry only campaign of game "balancing" (biasing?)
  4. Abunis

    Dalton liberators provide a unique style of gameplay.
    A nose that one-clips ESFs, belly that one taps ESFs, tail with prox lock-ons or skilled guns to clean up make the liberator an very strong adversary to any ESF pilot. That and ram ability.

    Tank Buster - could use a little bit of reduction against ESFs. It says "tank" not "ESF". Other nose guns should be THE CHOICE for air2air. Only against ESFs, but untouched against gals and other libs.

    Dalton - Should 2 shot MBTs that aren't running any armor slots. (2shot to burning). Hitting ESFs with Dalton should do minor damage but send the ESF spinning as if something rammed into it. (Without the crash damage)

    "A Dalton with a different payload" - Another belly cannon that is the direct alternative to the a2g Dalton. This version does the same as current damage to ESFs (one shot) but does minor damage against ground targets. Remove indirect damage.
  5. adamts01

    The Tankbuster is fine. Any ESF that gets nailed with such a short-range weapon on such a sluggish platform deserves to be hit. And any nerf against armor will entirely remove it from play, as you already have to slow to almost a stop to use it and hanging out for a reload would be a death sentence. Instead, ground needs skill-based and lethal AA to fight back.
  6. adamts01

    I don't think the Lib should be able to be a solo vehicle for ESF hunting. I think the Shredder should fill the belly AA role but the tail fun should have less side to side movement and be a ground attack and air defense weapon. That way it can be buffed to a useful air-defense role without being OP in an air-hunting role.

    Nope. Hornets were in a good place against armor before the nerf, 4 missiles to the rear for a MBT with a reload in between salvos. And that was nerfed instead of giving ground the teeth it needs to fight back. What you're asking for is an easier to use weapon that can deal about the same damage over the same amount of time from a farther distance and any angle..... nope.

    Nope. Dalton AA Libs truly are cancer. While there's absolutely skill involved, there's just as much luck if you're going after a competent pilot, and that's just a bad recipie for a competitive environment. Libs taking pop shots from render range isn't good for the game, and as long as the Dalton has the ability to 1-shot ESF, that's what you'll see. It's a zero risk, possible reward situation, and that sucks. The Lib should primarily go against ground. The tail gun should adequately defend a retreating Lib against an ESF at the same ranges the ESF nose gun poses a threat to the Lib (500m-600m). The Shredder could be a medium range AA option that deals less armor damage than the Dalton, but the Dalton absolutely needs to loose it's 1-shot ability.
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  7. stalkish

    It was suggested for the lib in BETA aswel, no traction there either.

    Its not HA + LMG, therfore its no skill, therefore it doesnt fit the game.
    Thats about right isnt it?
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  8. Hajakizol

    We need better g2a as well..... and asking for daltons to 2 shot mbts..
    • Up x 1
  9. DeadlyOmen

    Ho can projectiles tell the difference betwen one target and another target?

    It almost sounds like the bullets have a brain, and feel a bit of mercy for it's target...depending on what the target is.

    Bullets with mercy doesn't sound like a good thing to use.
  10. ColonelChingles

    It's rather funny because the Liberator was originally meant to have a 105mm Dalton, closer to the Lightning's 100mm AP gun. Instead for whatever reason it was given a 150mm weapon instead.

    That being said, it still does a lot more damage than even the Vanguard's 150mm AP shell against tanks. Even though the Vanguard does 75 more raw damage (2,075 versus 2,000), this is quickly negated by the Liberator's damage multipliers (an extra 50% versus 15%). The Liberator also fires much more quickly, @ 2.5 seconds instead of 4 seconds.

    Really there's no reason at all for a Liberator to be that tanky. Neither an A-10 nor an AC-130 (the two vehicles on which a Liberator is based) is anywhere near are well-armoured as an MBT.
  11. ColonelChingles

    The entire damage/resist system is a bit silly.

    Instead, there should be a simple armour system that just subtracts damage from the incoming threat and applies the remaining damage against the target.

    An infantryman should have 50 armour, a Sunderer 100 armour, and a tank 1,000 armour, for example.

    A sidearm bullet that did 30 damage would not be able to damage any target.

    A rifle bullet that did 75 damage would damage the infantryman, but not a Sunderer or tank.

    A rocket launcher that did 500 damage would damage the infantryman and Sunderer, but not the tank.

    A tank AP shell that did 2,000 damage would damage all targets.

    This makes weapons a bit more logical. There's no reason, for example, that a 20mm HMG round capable of penetrating tank armour wouldn't outright kill an infantryman in a single hit.
  12. Insignus

    The game tracks damage types and armor types. Each weapon has a damage type, each vehicle has an armor resist value against those damage types. This is why carbine bullets do no damage to a lightning, because the lightning has a 100% resist against that weapon type.
  13. ColonelChingles

    I'm pretty sure he's not unaware of the resist/armour mechanics in the game, but simply pointing out why such a mechanic seems ridiculous in the first place; ie that one particular weapon "decides" to do less damage to a particular target out of mercy.

    While not 100% right (some weapons do in fact do more or less damage to targets depending on the armour type like hollowpoint bullets or APFSDS darts), the general complaint is sound. PS2's damage system is fairly illogical.
  14. OldCuban

    Nerfing damage is never a good thing, imho.

    If you get hit by an explosive shell meant to take out a tank while you're in an ESF you should indeed blowup.

    HOWEVER, I do believe that the LIb does need.....adjusting. What I'd like to see them do, which they never will, would be for aircraft to fall significantly faster if they tilt too far to either side. Imho if a Lib flips upside down he should plummet to earth. Same goes for ESFs. Call me a stickler for actual physics. But alas, this will never happen. And why you may ask? Nanites! And the fact that the current dev team seems to break more than they fix, lol.

    They could also reduce the size of the Dalton shot itself. Right now a Lib belly gunner simply has to come close to an ESF in order to blow it up with one Dalton shot.
  15. ColonelChingles

    Naturally, this should apply to the Liberator when hit with tank shells... a single 100mm HEAT shell should probably disintegrate a Liberator. Most likely even a 75mm hit would knock it out of the sky.
  16. adamts01

    There are some very good reason the Lib absolutely has to be that tanky in PS2. The C-130 doesn't have armor because it doesn't need it, it shoots at targets that can't effectively shoot back. The A-10 has armor which is appropriate for it's level of exposure. If either of those vehicles had to get within spitting range (50m max damage Tankbuster), then I guarantee they'd be armored up. There's no realism in this game, so it's silly to compare anything about PS2 to real life.
  17. ColonelChingles

    There's realism... and then there's logic.

    For example...

    Realism- The Liberator should not have as much armour/HP because an AC-130 does not have as much armour/HP.

    Logic- The Liberator should not have as much armour/HP because it needs to fly, and things that need to fight gravity don't have as much armour/HP.

    Whether you wish to argue about realism (which I think should have a greater role in determining what is balanced) or logic, the conclusion will always be that the Liberator should not have as much armour/HP as it currently does.
  18. adamts01

    I'm all for more realism, I gave up PS2 and picked up Arma 3. But either way, as a close air support vehicle, basically nose to nose kind of close air support, it needs armor. If it were a ranged striker, or small and fast like an ESF then fine, let it be made of paper. But with it's current weapons, and the need for it to make itself such a big and slow target to use those weapons, it needs to be able to absorb a considerable amount of fire. I'm not saying it's right, most of this game isn't right, but fore gameplay sake, it needs to be tough. And there's no sense arguing that it's weapons should be given range, as that doesn't fit in with the infantry meta we've been force fed. The player base this game has attracted wouldn't stand for anything they couldn't kill with a dumbfire rocket or C4.
  19. Tankalishious

    Holy crap, if you have a problem with a single shot, high dmg OHK wep when you are lulling about in an ESF, you need to get your airgame looked at by someone who knows wtf they are doing, cause you obviously dont have a clue. Lets say you are coming in at a lib, starting firing at 200 meters. within a second, you are within max. dmg range, dealing(VS 220dmg stock gun), dealing about 12 shots a sec at 220 dmg. 2640 dmg per sec. then, you miss a few, but still, you are at more than 2k per sec. so, within 2,5 secs, you dish out 6600 dmg. A dalton gunner first needs to locate you, then calculate your speed and the lib speed, then your angle of movement, then figure out if you semi hoover at the same time, then he has to calculate his own movement , then pop off a shot. Dalton sniping is one of the hardest things in this game to do, with a skyhigh skill ceiling... and you want to nerf it because you litterally SUCK at flying? REALLY? Any semi-decent ESF pilot knows EXACTLY how to manouvre to stay away from lib bellies, they dont facehug the belly or tailgun like nublets, they use their verticle thrust cleverly, and they have a trained intuition for calculating when shots come, and move out of the line they were in, in time to dodge that single dalton shot.

    Crying about the TB main gun?
    you have to get close enough to smell the opponents dirty trousers to deal that HIGH dmg, and when you are so damn low, you are a flying monstertarget for anyone who cares to look in your direction.

    "but... but... . he has stealth, i cant see him on my map before im dead". well, turn off your effing music and turn on your game sound then, because the lib roars like a wounded lion, you can hear it half a hex away. EVERY skilled tanker/esf/lib i know on cobalt, turns on your lib when you are within hearing distance, cause they use one of their key sensing organs, the ears.
    Or get your teammates to simply look up and spam Q, then unleash lock ons and other AA.

    AA in this game is good, when used right. It sounds like you expect it to wipe any air off the face of auraxis within a second. Well, cobalt obviously doesnt have this G2A subpar problem. 2 burster maxes, 2 skyguards, a small horde of lockon heavies, anything like that can keep all air away..... The problem is, no one wants to watch the skies... its too boring, so people get lazy... and thats when massacres happen...
  20. Pikachu

    This was the 10th and last nerf thread for january. :)
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