Let's Talk About Bases

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by CptFirelord, Jul 26, 2016.

  1. CptFirelord

    Before the devs decide to roll out any more useless (I'm looking at you faction banner) pieces of equipment to our ANT building kit, let's discuss the current state of building.

    The time it takes for one to construct a base, and the time it takes for one person (let alone a squad or platoon) to destroy a base is ridiculous. I just spent an hour building a very well entrenched base on Amerish to have one engineer with a sundy blow it all up while I was out getting cortium. And I mean all of it. AI module first, then the skyshield, and then he just went straight for the HIVE. Nothing I could have feasibly done to stop him from returning and doing it again.

    One hour of work shouldn't be able to be destroyed in under a minute.

    Besides those individuals who insist that AP Lockdown Prowler is the biggest nemesis to bases (have you heard of galaxies?) what do the rest of you think is the current state of the base building game?
  2. IceMobsterrr

    You don't build a base alone. If you do, then put the HIVE last, after you've got full silo.
    • Up x 6
  3. SourceDecay

    I very much enjoy killing in 3 minutes what took someone an hour to build. That's my favorite thing about the state of the base building game.

    3 minutes is generous, it usually doesn't take that long.
  4. Purpoleon Dynamite

    I can not agree with the first sentence entirely. With that being said, one will definitely have an easier go of base building with allies participating. It is possible to build and hold a base solo within reason. If you do, and expect it to be rough at times, the second sentence above is gold. As soon as that HIVE marker shows up on the map, you're on the hit list.

    Having a full silo allows you to build and then defend without having to leave. Any obstacle not protected by direct fire or direct observation will soon be dismantled. Modules and defenders are the key to holding any constructed base. Attackers have figured this out. Engineers with AV turrets and Infiltrators with crossbows firing explosive bolts top the field regarding solo attackers. Toss in a Sunderer pulled from a nearby hacked terminal and you have a problem.

    But, if you are there... They no longer have the freedom to move around unopposed. I go one step further and do not deploy my HIVE until my silo is at least 2/3 full, my mines and "beeper gun" are out, all of my construction deployables are placed and a repair Sunderer is also deployed. If I am really running bare bones, or a supporting base, I will toss the scout radar on my ANT in lieu of the repair Sunderer.

    While it is not updated right away, the map will tell you what forces are in a given area. Or moving toward an area. Sounds give away more attackers for me than one would think. Infiltrators cloaking on and off. AV turrets fired have a very distinct sound. So does the crossbow. Watch for pathing routes taken by attackers. This may lead you back to their Sunderer. They say dogs, and obviously most Planetmans, do not look up. Get into the habit. A Valkyrie on station above your base can rain a never ending supply of bad guys. If you see "paratroops" and no drop pods or spawn beacon, fair chance that is what's happening. So many things to watch AND listen for.

    I think construction is in a good place. There are changes I would like to see. But over all it's doing alright. Hope this has helped a little bit.
  5. IceMobsterrr

    ANT scout radar requires someone to be inside in order for it to work, right?

    What changes would you like to see?
  6. CptFirelord

    In the off chance I happen to build a base by myself I always put the HIVE last. Don't need to try to teach me how to play ;)
  7. Taemien

    Base building is not solo content. I've been saying this since before it rolled out. You need a group to do it. I'd dare say it is what they call in MMORPGs as Raid content.
    • Up x 1
  8. LaughingDead

    For one, you need to have a team. Even if you put all your constructs down, your base will often be flimsy on the defensive.
    Secondly, you have to be active in your vehicle destruction. A lot of "base builders" just turtle inside their base treating it like a peice of the map. This is what gets seiges going and the forces snowball out of control leaving you to die by the tracks of 50k tanks. Having a way to completely deter them and having a team actively seeking and destroying enemy sundis gives a base great longevity; making a base designed to hold aircraft suited to destroy tanks and give the craft a safety net while heavies actively lock air is a synergistic combo that seiges and zergs will hate.

    For example, there was a spot on esamir, the spot was a basic mountain next to a valley and the mountain overlooked a large part of the field while the valley was deep enough to put up a skywall to stop infantry from pouring in. We put the base itself in the valley of course and an infantry tower with shield and repair mods at the inside of the base. The tower filled with lockon heavies and AV maxes prevented any vehicles from coming too close to dps the skywall or turrets, the back was the only exposed bit which had defenses everywhere. There was also an open space in the center that let planes land quickly and safely under the shield. This grand combination of location, determination and tactics with combined forces made the base stand up 24 vs 48+ (you can guess which side was 48).
  9. Taemien

    This is spot on. Kill the sundies, and you kill their resolve. Then win the continent.
  10. IceMobsterrr

    Lol. How did your base get destroyed when you were around gathering cortium then?

    Don't need to cry here if you ***#ed up and got destroyed as a result. ;)
  11. Toxicate

    Just like kicking a sandcastle on a beach - immediate satisfaction.
  12. Purpoleon Dynamite

    Yup, someone has got to be in the vehicle. With our flat bellied, steely eyed base defender on the gun all but the sneakiest of attackers will be shown on the mini-map to nearby allies. Thank goodness ANTs come fully equipped with a weapon mount. Being able to "see" the bad guys is great, but being able to see AND shoot them is the ticket. The M20 Basilisk is a great general purpose weapon and my recommendation for this role. While other weapons available will do better in certain situations I think the M20 allows you to do more. The grenade launchers are awesome against troops in the open or hiding behind cover. But suck if an ESF is giving you the business. Other side of that coin is that the AA guns are top notch versus aircraft. And will do in a pinch against infantry or ground vehicles if, you can get them in your sights. Their lower field of fire is usually parallel to the deck they are mounted to. In simpler terms, you can't aim low enough at times to engage ground targets. Cert cost is another selling point. 200 certs for the M20. Everything else is 3-4 times more. I would also suggest, as it is only 11 certs for 200 more rounds of ammo IIRC, upgrading the ammo supply. Lastly, if you have the certs, get the thermal optics. It's range is limited but within the confines of a constructed base it is more than enough. Those sneaky players that "prairie dog" in and out from behind cover will stand out like no tomorrow.

    Changes I would like to see with the current system in place... First and foremost as many others have stated in multiple threads, construction items purchased with DGC cash should be unlocked account wide. Period! You buy the "beeper gun" with DGC cash... It's unlocked for every Engineer on that account. You buy the NS-7 PDW with DGC cash and it's sub-machineguns for everyone account wide regardless of faction. Why was construction items marketed differently? Hmm...

    While it has only happened to me once I would like to see the option of purchasing construction items for deployment via DGC cash removed once the item has been unlocked. Who the hell wants to pay real money for an item that is clearly meant to be purchased with an in game consumable? Hmm...

    I will leave consideration of those two questions for another thread.

    A better system for "snapping" deployables together is another that I have heard a lot about. I am on the fence for this one as there are bigger fish to fry by the developers. But I am sympathetic. A suggestion, when placing my perimeter deployables and trying to get them "just right" I roll as an Infiltrator using the stalker cloak. You can fidget with your placement while cloaked and avoid being picked off.

    Innate cortium detection via a passive ability for the ANT. Finding and harvesting cortium is their primary gig. Making the mineral radar a purchased option seems, well... stupid IMO. Perhaps it is a balance thing. I don't know. Forcing players to choose which utility slot item they want may be a way to prevent the ANT from being to "broad" in it's abilities. Again, I don't know. And unless I hear a viable argument against it I see no reason why mineral radar can't be an innate ability that is upgradeable if one chooses to do so.

    The last thing that comes to mind is the restricted areas of ANT and construction deployment. While I understand balance, I would like to be able to use construction items a little more tactically. Not just as stand alone bases. Again, this is kind of a "wish list" issue and not as important as the first two changes.

    As always, hope this has helped everyone enjoy the construction system as much as I do.
  13. FeralBoy

    In impartial defense of DBG/SOE I bet the faction banners aren't useless to them. Just like the ridiculous fact that purchasing the construction bundle with DB cash doesn't unlock it account wide, the faction banners are just another method they employed to remove as much hard earned money from your wallet as they can before PS2 flat-lines.

    Other than the fact I think it's a steaming hot plate of dookie and a blatant money grab to not make construction items bought with DB cash unlocked account wide I'm fine with base building's current state. I'm already bored with base building for the most part but I have no issue at all with the time it takes to kill a well constructed base or a poorly laid out one.
  14. PlanetBound

    The more time you spend building a base, the faster it comes down.
  15. aiPIMP

    I find more enjoyable lately to build base solo.
    NOT for Hive placement, but as a roadblockade, nasty AA nest or creating choke points on the map.
    It is risky, and often I get destroyed before properly set up entire base, but when its done, it creates small strategic point on the map, where one man can hold its own against couple of vanguards, sundies and small air drops. Couple more randoms to help and you can fight off small army.
    THEN some random ****** grabs the opportunity and place his Hive in your base so it gets attention of medium to large orginised groups to drop on you and destroy everything. I wish there was possibility to prevent people from putting unwanted hives in your base.
    After all its not very good for cert gathering, but given 30 min, and little bit lucky one can create a small logistic/support/defensive point for friendly zergs, force enemies to throw more human resources at you (that could reinforce other fights otherwise) or make them find another way around.
  16. kr47er

    >The allowed construction area in relation to bases is too restrictive in much cases, too dumb in others. check them.
    >The spawn system is too unconsistent, we need buildable spawnrooms. In much Hives the battle is not about the hive, its about the sundy instead.The buildable spawnrooms should be mandatory request in order to activate hive, and they should be accesible from any point on the continent.
    >New players barely have options to construct, plus they'll probably invest on gear first.
    >The ammount of cortium in most continents is low and hard to find. Show the current locations on the map.
    >The player-made bases are still vehicle playground, there barely is any infantry battle.
    >The ammount of items that can be deployed by one person is low in a lot of cases. Specially infantry towers and blast walls.Remember that they cost 1500 and 1000 respectively. You also can place 3 rampart walls but just 2 blast walls, 2 useless bunkers but just 1 infantry tower.
    >We need more structures like the one on the paliaside to construct next to them.Vehicle terminal is apreciated like on this one.
    >Terrain inclination is the worst enemy of this system.
    >Why I cant construct on the top of a bunker? It just seem perfect to a hive and several modules around it, or even for a silo.
    >Make walls and bunkers attachable.
    >The decon tool should return the removed object to the inventory, so we can move structures and make adjustments.
    >The skywall shield is too punishing to the infantry, plus its now used to lock access to infantry towers. Make it just like any other shield in the game.
    >Items are generally too expensive.
    >Vehicle ramps? faction banner? are you serious?
    >The players are not generally motivated about this yet.
    >The blackhand needs a x1. iron sight, don't force me to the x4, just let me choose it.
    • Up x 2
  17. o.Solei.o

    I would love to see this made more permissive, but I get the potential balance issues involved.

    This is one of the biggest deterrents to getting my RL friends and clannies to get in on PS2 for the base-building aspect. I keep trying to emphasize that we need more walls and turrets, but being deprived of the more interesting aspects and options due to grind is a real turn-off for them ever getting invested in the game to begin with.

    I would definitely like to see some way of increasing the variety of turrets a person can place without it becoming ridiculous. For instance, perhaps the silo owner (and only them) can place an extra turret of any kind, or something along those lines. Trouble is, I see just about any flexible alternative requiring a lot of new code for this single QoL feature, and that's just not an economical use of coder time. :/

    THIS! If there was one thing I would dearly love to see in this system, it's snapping, ala Fallout 4. Make it something you can toggle on and off and you kill two birds with one stone. Without changing the normal clipping distances on wall corners and whatnot, you can make it so that some structures can be snapped together seamlessly, or placed free-hand as they are now. This way there's no worry about permissive clipping rules making it possible to build impenetrable baes, but builders don't need to pixel-***** for 20 minutes to get basic walls to line up.

    Amen. This, next to the cost, is one of the biggest obstacles to getting excited about the system. Screw it up and you have to start from scratch. Combined with no-deploy zones around each deployable that are not always easy to visualize the layout of in advance (due in large part to clipping issues with uneven terrain), and the fact that if you take too long someone will eventually show up and wreck your day before you're ready, and you have a recipe for slapped together bases, frustration, or bases that never live to see the light of day.

    I actually like the potential for clever synergy of building items, but it should gain a little additional exploitable weakness in return. Obviously, the Glaive is the answer to this, but it needs to be tuned a little more (and perhaps be a little more accessible) in order to effectively fill this role.
    • Up x 1
  18. Liewec123

    a small group with a player made base can hold off a vehicle column,
    iirc the wall become invincible as long as you have a repair module active.
  19. SarahM

    Got to agree with a lot of the points made in this thread.

    Placeable jumppads (only straight up/straight down) would be nice.

    Prefabs/blueprints would be nice too: go to the construction sandbox continent (aka VR flatlands), build a base (up to [amount of cortium in a silo] resources used) and save it as a blueprint. Then, during normal play, you can select that blueprint to build and plop it down like a single building (if you have the needed cortium and can find a place where it fits). Players could get 2 slots for saving blueprints for free with the option to buy more slots for DBC.
    • Up x 1
  20. D.M.B.-681

    Points where walls can stick to each other, bunkers and pillboxes.
    Like really, what is the purpose of walls when you can just go around or crawl through the gaps between them? Just to waste your time?