Lets play a Game :: NC Maxsuits are "useful" ::

Wait...
What???
REALLY???
So, the whole map is Towers and Biolabs huh???

Can we clear up something REALLY important...
Effective Range means the area between Minimum and Maximum Range that it can be Effective. Anything outside that makes it uneffective...

How about locking down Spawn Rooms...
TR Can do it...
VS Can do it...
Both from distances that has them NOT standing in front of the spawnroom itself at places where they can duck in and out of cover...
NC??? NOPE, 15ms is the Effective Range, Guess what cover that gives...
**** ALL...

Go out there and find me a Spawnroom which has a range of 15m from the Spawn doors where an NC Max can stand safely while locking down a Spawn Room. Moving in and out of cover...
RULES: Allies must be able to reach it and be safe, so no small cover. It must not be possible for a LA to duck out for less then 3 seconds to drop a C4 onto the local where the Max is...

GO...

In other words

"You can not say anything that invalidates my whole argument!!"

I know all 3 maxes well and I can say I will take TR/VS maxes any day over a NC max plain and simple. The NC max only is superior in very tight areas like a tower capture point. The only problem here is if it just 1-3 infantry the NC max will be fine anything more then that he is screwed since he has VERY bad sustained damage.

In a short fight with 1-2 maybe 3 infantry under 10m
NC>VS=TR

In a short fight with 1-2 maybe 3 infantry over 10m

VS>TR>NC

In a long fight with 3+ infantry under 10m

TR=VS>NC

In a long fight with 3+ infantry over 10m

VS>TR>NC

The fact is the NC will only win if any enemy is under 10m and any enemy over that will have an advantage over the max even with slug since how inaccurate they are and very unreliable. Problem is NC max reload is way longer then when he shoots thats the problem. SHOTGUNS need to be removed from our maxes and give the nc max 2 dual gauss weapons to fix this disadvantage BS.

Players are smarter now they are not dumb to run up to a NC max in his superior range and any player with common sense ... scratch that a brain will not fight nc max in CQC and fight him at his disadvantage range. The shield has its up and downs yes it may let you reload but a long 4 second reload will let the enemy keep his range and reload and wreck you.

No, you can't state some crap then say "argue with me except for using anything that completely invalidates my whole argument"

because that's dumb.

Stating a fact does not make on a troll.

Like you did? Oh wait.

I'm sure it would be something I'd care about, or not.

because fights are won, zergs are stopped, ext ext in all the areas outside of this 25% the op has stated...thats why....

our range isn't the issue, theres is always some cqc to be done at every base,
the issue is the ratio of damage>magazine size>reload time, if any one of these is buffed NC max will be fine

Here's the other two continents.

Amerish:
Bases with critical points inside:
Stoneride Reserve
North Grove Post
Lithcorp Secure Mine
Ikanam Bio Lab
The NC Arsenal
Sungray Amp Station
Jagged Lance Mine
Crux Mining Operation
Shadespire Farms
Amerish ARX Reserve
Blackshard Tungsten Mine
Crux Headquarteres
Auraxicom Netwrok Hub
Ikanam Bio Lab
Deserted Mineshaft
Kwahtee Amp Station
Deepcore Geolab
The Bastion
The Ascent
Mekala Tech Plant
East Hills Checkpoint
Onatha Bio Lab
Silver Valley Arsenal
Splitpeak Pass
Xelas Bio Lab
Granit Valley Garrison
Torremar Salvage Yard
Raven Landing
Auraxis Firearms Corp.
Highroads Station
Tumas Tech Plant
Torremar Storage Yard
Deepcore Platinum Mine
Wokuk Amp Station
Vaemar Logging Company
Chimney Rock Depot
Heyoka Tech Plant
Cobalt Communications
Genudine Physics Lab

Bases with critical points outside:
Hidden Ridge Mining
Soltech Charging Station
West Foothills Airdock
Rockslide Outlook
Auraxicom Substation
The Auraxian Cryobank
Aramax Chemical Co.

Esamir:
Bases with critical points inside:
Mani Tower
Mani Fortress
Mani Bio Lab
Mani Lake Satellite
Heaven Outpost
Northpoint Station
Stillwater Watch
Freyr Northern Barracks
Freyr Substation
Treyr Geothermal Plant
Freyr Amp Station
Freyr Network Compound
Snowshear Watchtower
Aurora Materials Lab
Apex Genetics
Nott Amp Station
Nott Communications
Nott Reserarch Camp
Andvari Barracks
Andvari Bio Lab
Andvari Frozen Reservoir
Andvari South Bank
Eisa Mountain Pass
Eisa Tech Plant
Eisa Mining Operation
Eisa Southern Camp
Jaeger's Crossing
Elli Tower
Elli Barracks Complex
Elli Amp Station
Elli Forest Pass
The Bulwark
Ymir Mine Watch
Ymir Eastern Way Station
Ymir Southern Reach
Ymir Bio Lab
Terran BL-4 Crash Site
Frostfall Overlook
East River Sky Station
The Octagon
Bridge-Ward
Searro Listening Post
Two Stone Beach
Frostbite Harbour
Everett Supply Co.
Echo Valley Substation

Bases with critical points outside:
Palos Solar Array
Crystal Ridge Comm Array
Rime Analytics
The Rink
Grey Heron Shipping
Nott Substation
The Traverse
Jaeger's Fist
Old Shore Checkpoint
Geological Survey Camp

So that adds up to 39 out of 46 bases on Amerish and 46 out of 56 on Esamir. So that's 84.78 % on Amerish, 82.14 % on Esamir and an average of 83.33 % for the two continents. Guess you forget that not everything is about Indarside. Also, I apologise for my slight exageration, it's closer to 85 % instead of 90 %. Turns out I was about 7 percentage points off. My bad.

Yes I know that you have to hit with all bullets. Guess what, our chain guns are not even remotely accurate even at close range. So I know the feeling.

Would you care to list how many of those inside areas have only one entrance point? I'll help you out - none of them do.

Just because the capture points are inside, does not make the NC MAX king of defending those areas. The NC MAX needs to be close enough to that area so that their weapons are effective, yet far enough away that explosives, projectiles, rockets and tactical nades are less of a risk.

I would also suggest that a good percentage of those areas you listed are difficult for NC MAX to assault as you'd have to traverse a lot of open ground essentially defenseless to get there. Once you're inside, there's plenty of lanes that are beyond the effective range of the NC MAX that render them useless to return fire. Bio Labs are often brought up and NC MAX are easy to suppress from getting anywhere tactical by TR/VS MAX if you know what you're doing.

I have all three MAX specced up pretty well, I'm not going to argue that the NC MAX is useless, it's far from being that. It lacks the versatility that the other two have. It's hampered by only having shotguns as AI weapons. The AI weapons have been nerfed to the point that you need extended mags to have a hope against another MAX - and that's provided that they're within ~8m and they're not running a high KA (if it's KA5 - only Grinders will take down the enemy MAX). It's hampered by having short range AV weapons that have slow projectiles. It's hampered by being extremely loud. It's the least used MAX now for a reason.

Every single one of those can be forced into a medium range fight except at certain choke points. At those choke points a sacrificial charge with only 1-2 of the maxes decoying enabling a C-4 rush will lose you the door and it will not be regained.

The tactics and terrain are there to force the NC out of it's extremely extremely tiny advantage points, doorways, but TR doesn't need to use that normally because they have better maxes by far. Even VS maxes are better in all reality. Because NC maxes are only good until containment is broken, all other factions' maxes are good at all times.

If you are defending you should NEVER be facing many CQC NC maxes. That means you incorrectly used the terrain when defending. NC maxes should always have to cross at least a small to moderate killing floor to get into effective range, killing floors where firepower can be concentrated. Even if the maxes make it their engineers will not and their medics prolly won't either.

It's not my fault TR is used to zerg tactics and nothing else.

Even better to point out...
You don't defend bases by standing on the point the whole time...
Why would you let them get into the base to begin with...
I see TR and VS Maxs moving out to shut down hill climbs, shut down sundy spam and other different infantry pushes...
But according to TR and VS the place for an NC should be Inside... Away from the party...
Starting to think that the NC Max is like that Fat kid that no one invites to parties so he stays at home playing PS2 all day as a TR or VS so that he feels big about himself....

Thats a good point. (bad pun intended)

According to TR and VS we should allow them to flood our base and wait for them at the point to make a good defense.

Seems legit.

I couldn't care less if you fail to comprehend, that's your problem, not mine.

I shall make it much clearer for you though, since it seems you need it.

so

and as always, you're dribbling. I "exaggerated" about what? I stated ONE single fact, that he implies not to say anything that invalidates his whole argument. I'm not talking about it as you state, nor do I need to show any argument, because I basically summed it all up in one single (very very simple) sentence.

And there's you exaggerating, lying and talking complete nonsense, troll.

No MAX is useful on its own. Except maybe prenerf ZOE which was basically a straight upgraded HA. So your point is invalid. When we talk MAX, we talk squad level or at least half a squad. In those cases, shotguns are far superior in a closed environment. There is no escaping the effective range of the shotguns.

You also missed a tactic that is widely used by NC on Waterson. The MAX Gal drop. No need to run anywhere. Just dump a squad or two of MAX, engineers and a couple of medics straight on the point and watch the other team run into a wall of lead trying to retake the point. You need a large numerical superiority to fight through that.

Does no-one here even play this game?

My point is invalidated by the fact that no MAX is useful on its own? Oh, right. I guess the 263 hours I've spent as an NC MAX on my main was spent sitting in a corner all by myself and not with my clanmates.
Quite easy to escape the effective range of shotguns - during their looooong reload. Oh, use Shield I'll hear you say. Can be effective against that one TR directly infront of you but not his buddies off to the side, a lot less effective against VS to the point that I highly recommend against it. I've had a ZOE MAX burn through my shield and burn through me before I could get into effective range as all the ZOE had to do was backpedal while shooting. He didn't even have to reload to kill an L5 shield and my KA5 NC MAX. I got him down to ~half with my Mattocks at 10m. If I had charge, I at least had an escape route.

Ah, ok. We need to get 24 NC MAX for them to be effective? Ok, they squat near the entrances. A few HA's and LA's lobbing flash and conc nades every ~10 seconds has just dulled the effectiveness of anything in that room. Follow up with C4, tank mines, AV nades and/or a dozen of your own MAX and you've wiped half of the room out before they're able to see what to shoot at and if you were smart enough or certed enough to have KA5, you'll wipe out the other half without too many problems.

Or.. I can just conceed that the magical number for NC MAX to be effective is 24 and be done with it.

NC maxes are useful for decorating your warpgate!
they also make delightful coat hangers!

*Shrug* You can take down a Zoe pretty easily with focused fire. I never really saw the complaints people had against it.

*Edit: Except the strafing nonsense there at the beginning, that was some BS right there, so glad that got taken care of.

You really really....really don't comprehend well do you?

I use my MAX all the time in different situations and it seems to work just fine.

If the NC MAX is exposed to the sun it catches on fire, just like the legendary "Nosferatu."