[Suggestion] Lets give the TRAC-5 a niche

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by The Shady Engineer, Dec 26, 2016.

  1. The Shady Engineer

    Let me first start by saying that unlike many TR engies and light assault, I kinda like the TRAC-5. I like the design logic behind the weapon- a cqc oriented carbine that's held back by difficult recoil instead of low bullet velocity. Imo it also gives a very nice introduction to TR weapon design in general- high fire rate, high side to side shake, high magazine capacity (with relatively short reload in relation to other 40 round 143 damage /750 rpm weapons) dakka dakka dakka.

    Problem is, the Jaguar exists.

    TRAC-5 and Jag share the same damage model (143 @10m, 112 @60m) and the same fire rate (750) thus share an exact same time to kill. However, the Jag is much easier to control because it has a much smoother recoil pattern (basically kicks straight up) while the TRAC-5 jitters all over the place because of the high FSRM AND the Jag has 0.75x ADS multiplier.

    What advantages does the TRAC-5 have? 50 extra m/s bullet velocity. TRAC-5 also reloads faster but a 0.2 second difference on a weapon that long reloads close to 4 seconds is unnoticeable. Now, a 50 m/s extra velocity is not nothing, but it isn't enough of an advantage to make it worth taking over the Jag. In a game where weapons are sidegrades of each other, TRAC-5 got left behind, imo.

    So what am I proposing? Capitalize on the TRAC-5 being a cqc carbine that's also viable at range. Bump the bullet velocity up to 515 (from 490), give the TRAC-5 access to an advanced grip and give the TRAC-5 access to high velocity ammo. It's still going to be inferior to the Jag in cqc and will still be a btch to control at range but at least it will give it a niche- that of a cqc carbine that can still reach out and touch some people.
    • Up x 2
  2. Campagne

    I'd like to see this kind of treatment with some of the other "sidegrade" weapons. Aside from the directives, there are a few weapons that just don't serve a purpose.
  3. ceddZzmeowmix

    I can give a different gun to gun comparison that may help in identifying a good stat to differentiate. Let's take a look at the Pulsar vs SVA-88 today (Vanu LMGs). Both have identical fire rate and damage. the SVA-88 has higher velocity, which is great for middle to high range fights, while Pulsar has greater recoil pattern, allowing you to spray with it at mid-range. In this instance you get something good for each weapon and a good personal preference for the range and utility the weapon has. I'm not sure what stat you would change on the trac 5, since I have never used it, but I hope having a comparison like this helps a bit.
  4. The Shady Engineer

    I don't play Vanu heavy so it's all hearsay on my part, but isn't the SVA 88 universally considered the better choice between the two?

    As for recoil patterns, I'd say SVA 88 wins there. LSW has considerably lower recoil per shot but has angular pull to the right while the SVA has more recoil per shot but kicks straight up and pure vertical recoil is the easiest to compensate for. Again, hearsay and theory crafting on my end as I've never used either weapon.

    But yeah, you bring up a good point. SVA 88 and Pulsar LSW are another two weapons the could use more differences between them to give them a more distinct feel.
  5. ceddZzmeowmix

    You missed my point completely, I'm afraid. Perhaps I did not voice myself correctly. I was showing off two weapons with almost identical stats that actually play differently and are equally as good for different reasons, as in they come down to personal preference and the individual scenarios you find yourself in, giving you reasons to play both guns if you play a lot of heavy assault. Only difference between SVA-88 and Pulsar, as I said already, is Pulsar has better recoil/CoF while SVA has better velocity. The situation between TRAC-5 and jaguar is similar except one gun has better reload speed + velocity while the other has better recoil and ADS multiplier, meaning one gun is clearly better than the other (the Jaguar).

    My point was, reload speed and velocity are not good trade-offs, just like OP said, while trading velocity for recoil/cof is more even, but even then recoil is better (making the Pulsar slightly better).
  6. The Shady Engineer

    What I got from your original post is that you think the SVA/LSW balance is a good model. I disagree. I think that just like in the Jag/TRAC-5 dynamic, the SVA would be a better pick for the majority of players.

    SVA has better hipfire while LSW has a bit lower bloom per shot. Both weapons have identical starting aim down sights cone of fire.

    SVA has 10 m/s velocity advantage. On weapons with velocity above 600 it is meaningless.

    Recoil patterns are the biggest difference between the two. LSW has lower recoil but pulls to the right and SVA has higher recoil but kicks straight up. SVA's recoil pattern is easier to compensate for. Not to mention that if you put a compensator (which the LSW doesn't have access to) on your SVA 88, it will lower the recoil to the same level of the LSW with none of the angular pull.
  7. ceddZzmeowmix

    It might just be personal preference then, but I can spray with the Pulsar and hit all my shots while I have to actively make sure I burst with the SVA-88, making me want to play with Pulsar more if I'm in a big teamfight and I can get in a good flanking position. I still think the point I made, despite personal preference either way, still stands: these two guns have a more even trade-off than TRAC5 and jaguar.
  8. The Shady Engineer

    If you're doing better with the Pulsar LSW then by all means use it. I've had people tell me the NS 11C is better than the T5 AMC, and looking at it purely statistically, I can see where they're coming from. However in actual field conditions I end up doing leagues better with the AMC. Go figure. :D

    True that. It's easier for those two though because they both share the mid-long range niche. Jag-TRAC 5 dynamic is a bit different. Jaguar is supposed to be a dedicated cqc carbine and the TRAC-5, as a default weapon, is supposed to be a jack of all trades. Going with the changes I propose will give the TRAC-5 a little more controllability as well as more oomph at range which will make it occupy the middle ground between a dedicated cqc carbine and a dedicated mid-long range carbine.

    So you want that biased standart free Carbine with free lasersight and 40 shots per mag to be MORE niched???

    Well.....only if the other Factions Standart Carbines get one too.

    That is how balance works.
  10. The Shady Engineer

    NC Mercenary is the middle ground between the Bandit/GD-7F and Razor/ACX 11
    VS Solstice is the middle ground between the Zenith/VX6-7 and Pulsar C

    TR TRAC 5 is worse than the Jaguar. It's worse at cqc and worse at range too for reasons mentioned in the original post. I'm asking to give it better damage over range (HVA) and slightly more controllability (Adv forward grip) to, if not make it better, at least make it competitive to the Jag at range. A relationship all other faction defaults share with their dedicated cqc weapon.
  11. Ziggurat8

    The Jag is better, but you forgot one thing. Is it 650 certs or 500 dbc better? Not really. I probably wouldn't buy it just to use over the Trac5. I got the jag as part of an anniversary bundle so I use it. Also unless you're an aurax ***** like myself, then it doesn't matter much that it's better because it'll only get used for 1160 kills anyway.

    It's nice having similar guns when you're just pushing directives. 2320 kills with essentially the same gun. Nothing wrong with that. It beats buying **** guns you hate just to get another auraxium.

    Going for the LMG directive on VS, I went from LSW straight to SVA. They're so similar I would probably use the LSW just for the different model. Makes the transition a synch.
  12. Eternaloptimist

    I have found the TRAC 5 to be a very decent starter weapon. I've never had any trouble with recoil compensation when using it at a sensible range for a carbine and burst firing.

    The Jaguar is a CQC optimised version of the TRAC, lower bullet velocity, advanced laser sight, SPA and better hip fire stats- whilst also having the same ADS accuracy with a bonus 0.75 multiplier. It's a straight upgrade in my book.

    I don't see why there is a need to give a starter weapon a niche. If you want HVA and better long range capability on a carbine you can always cert into the TRAC 5 Burst (burst carbines are crazy accurate nowadays).

    To make similar comparison between other faction weapons I guess the best bet would be to compare Mercenary with Bandit, or Solstice with Zenith. In both cases you get better RoF than the default weapon as well as the ADS benefit and more attachments. But then, the TRAC 5 already has a better RoF than the other default carbines.

    You can also get burst variants of the default carbine in each of the other factions if that is your thing. As for the high RoF bullet spamming beasts I'd put the GD-7F and the VX6-7 in the same category as the Lynx myself................
  13. JKomm

    I actually greatly prefer the Trac-5 over the Jaguar, I don't know what it is but I just do not like that weapon as much. Also your proposition steps on the toes of the Trac-5 Burst which compared to the Trac-5, has greater velocity, high velocity ammo, lower recoil, and the benefit of 2 extra rounds per magazine. It's honestly superior in almost every way, people just don't like clicking as much.
  14. OldMaster80

    The Trac-5 already has a very important trait: it's for free ;)
    • Up x 1
  15. Cymric

    Just want to add that the Jaguar has horizontal recoil of (0.273 - 0.243) x 2 which is worst than TRAC-5's 0.225 x 2 by 10%-20%.
  16. Rhello

    Planetside 2's way of balancing : 490 m/s + massive horizontal recoil = .75 ADS + great ADS pattern + 440 m/s.
  17. The Shady Engineer

    Makes no difference in field conditions because TRAC-5 has higher FSRM and 25 degrees of pull to the right while Jag kicks straight up.

    I don't think it does.

    TRAC-5B will still be the more accurate option and it will still have that amazing ads cof all burst weapons have. With my changes TRAC-5's recoil will still be hard to control at range but if the operator puts in the time and effort to develop skill and get used to the recoil, he will be rewarded for doing so. Not so much the case right now. Hell, if anything you'll get better payoff from getting used to leading targets at range to compensate for the Jag's low bullet velocity than to learn how to compensate for the TRAC's recoil.