[Suggestion] Let Heavy Assault use Archer as Tool

The NS-AM7 Archer is a handy tool for the Engineer class, but since the Heavy Assault class seems to be the leading anti-vehicle class, why not let them use the Archer in the tool (launcher) slot to give them a lighter anti-air and anti-MAX option?

Because taking away a support tool from a support class is like giving light assault a spitfire. While it would be amusing and helpful, it over shadows another class's intended role for something and opens up too much versatility for x infantry.

Say you get a support engie, archer, turret, mines; then a super defense heavy, resist, high dps lane hold LMG, you pull an archer to help stop a max while the heavy pulls a rocket, both are slow reload but combined they do great. Another reason is that heavy wouldn't really need anything else if he knew what he was fighting, if he's in an enclosed base, why bring rockets when an archer decks all the maxes he needs to and with enough ammo to justify not needing a support engie.

Saying give class X is like diminishing the value of the class you got it from.

Ok so basically lmg, rocket launcher, pistol, grenade and Archer. Why not also jetpack and cloaking?

OP said instead of RL

Engies should also get rocket launchers. Not kidding, they should.

Heavies are by far the best against infantry, unquestionably the best against air, and tied with light assaults as the best against vehicles. Well over half the infantry in battles are already HAs, they don't need any help whatsoever.

The engineer is the leading AV class, that's why they get the archer.

I don't see the point tbh. The average RL does more hurt than the Archer against vehicles and both of them will two shot a Max.

Sounds like a suggestion to give HAs a sniper rifle in diguise.

Im also confused.
Only thing i can think is max killing, but RL is better at close range, so that leaves long range max sniping. Who the hell would use a heavy for that over an engineer with unlimited ammo?

Struggling to find reason.
Other than just, 'for the hell of it' i can think of nothing.

Even using it as a sniper is silly as there are way better options for long range HA vs infantry, but again, why would you even try to use HA at range when there are better classes for that?

Okay... if Heavy Assault gets Archer as a tool slot weapon, then Engineer's get Rocket Launcher's as a primary slot weapon. Seems fair enough.

And infiltrator gets C-4 and its a deal

i see no reason not too, imho Archer is a fairly big downgrade.
the only niche where it shines is if a max is wandering around in the open 50m-70m away,
but no sane max puts themself in that position.

otherwise RL is better for close range max work, FAR better for AV work and can even OHK infantry.

Please wait for Planetside 3.

Archer is better at killing MAX in every scenario.

Let's look at it.

Archer: 3 round kill chamber time of 2.0s. 540m/s velocity means under 50m you just shouldn't miss. TTK 4.0s assuming you have a round chambered before engaging. It has a 2 head shot kill on MAX so potential TTK of 2.0s on a full health MAX.

Decimator/ES RL/ES AA Dumbfired: 2/2/3 shots to kill 60/85/100/ms respectively. Which means you're more likely to miss because of increased lead times and the targets ability to dodge. Reload time of 5.7/5.2/5.2 gives you TTK of 5.7/5.2/10.4 assuming you have a rocket chambered before you engage.

In the event of all shots landing the archer has a shorter TTK of 2.0s(w/head shots) vs 5.7/5.2/10.4 or 4.0s(body shots) vs 5.7/5.2/10.4. With over 5x better velocity you will land shots at ranges outside of 10m much more consistently with the Archer. In the event of a miss the Archer is only down 2.0s per miss attempt making it significantly better in that aspect. The RL's have some splash but at best it means 3 hit kills if maximum splash is done on each miss.

The downside of the Archer is that as an engineer you cannot use a carbine with it. Giving it the slowest overall TTK vs infantry of any weapon (all dumbfire RL 1HK). A HA using it in the RL slot would not have any of the drawbacks of the weapon that it was essentually balanced around. Giving it to HA as primary I could maybe see doing. The trade off there would be the same as on the engineer. Otherwise HA with Archer would be extremely effective against MAX units while retaining their current effectiveness against infantry.

Biolabs. The Archer shines in Biolabs. Really good at def and attack. My own opinion is : If a guy is spawning a Max, it means that he has no idea of how to handle an infantry fight. Or it means that he wants to push as hell, and he will make a mistake soon.
It induces a bit slow - boring gameplay (compared to regular infantry gameplay or Infi sniping). But It may also result in some hip firing @ "panic button spam WTF I totally messed up" unexpected and glorious "Max Down" frags.

Stats are great on paper, i agree, but in reality a rocket is better imo.
Ducking out of cover and shooting a rocket, with splash damage, is a lot more reliable than a single shot from a sniper rifle at close range. With a rocket, youll most likely kill or severly damage the pocket engi he has, making your second shot almost a guaranteed kill. It also has the benefit of damaging other infantry around it, not by much, but as the old saying goes 'every penny counts' and with probably 5-6 other players shooting at them id defo go for splash + power over power alone. If you(collective) are missing a rocket shot in a cqc situation, and i did say close range, then its not the weapons fault, and if you do miss, as i said, it has splash so its going to do something to some1, could even kill the infantry behind if your lucky, id vey much doubt there would be a second max right behind the first that has less than 1/3 health.

Neither rocket or Archer is going to kill a max who has got a clue in a 1v1 situation, so i make my consideration for this as if im part of a squad, fighting another squad. Ability to OHK an infantry or do >50% damage to a max (or even both if they're close enough) is better than doing 1/3 damage to a max or scratching an infantry imo.

Everyone is diff of course, and thats what i love about this game, players make diff styles and weapons work. Id just prefer a rocket over the Archer for a Heavy.

I do agree it would negate the no primary weapon disadvantage, and that is another reason not to do it.

I run MAX a lot and it's been my experience that good players with Archers are far harder to deal with than HA. I run Flak rank 5 so splash is more an annoyance than a threat. The archer is decent when fired from the hip and has a laser sight rail attachment. Easily useable within a range that the average RL user will still hit you. Further than that the Archer 4x scope and 540m/s velocity really outclasses the RL. The saving grace? I run into Archers maybe 1 or 2x a month.

I main engineer (I have the Archer) and I have a much better way of dealing with a Max at less than 50 metres in a 1 v 1 situation.....................I simply press the f**k off button on the side of my boot!

Archer - Max at long range - hope he doesn't spot you before you get the second shot off

still, archer requires 3 shots to kill so that means you need to poke your head out 3 times while rocket launchers enjoy a 2 shot kill,
and since you need to rechamber it twice (2 seconds each) the TTK is fairly similar, unless you get headshots.
its all just my opinion but i think RL is better for the majority of situations in the game

All you need is HS only : 2 to 3 HS. Easy to say, I do agree.
But that's not your job to face Maxes. As an engi, You can set up traps with AV mines in the most common aeras where Maxes are supposed to go through. Or just run away and come back with your own Max, your own HA, or kitting Infi with Emp nades. Your teammates are supposed to do their own job too , you're "just" a support class. That's not your job to duel a Max.