Leadership.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Negator, Dec 27, 2013.

  1. Chicken Wings

    Courage. Will. Vision.

    I'd say those are the most necessary to leadership. In-game, besides "You're not fighting like TR!" and other platitudes, there really isn't much incentive to take courage and take the reins.
  2. robo

    Event Calendar is one of the most important additions on the list. If you could log into the game, hit O to check your outfit panel, and see what was planned for the next few days, weeks, month, etc, that would be amazing. People despise forums and websites. In-game event calendar is something that had a placeholder throughout Beta but wasn't developed. It is an amazing idea, as are other ideas on these lists and many lists I've seen people write for months.

    The outfit/leadership/mission/etc updates cannot come soon enough.
    • Up x 3
  3. Pokebreaker


    Whoa man, you might scare people off with all this talk of organization and fulfillment. Seems like too many players view strategy, tactic, and leadership as "trying too hard," yet they are constantly frustrated. They don't realize that the lack of general strategy, tactic, and leadership is the direct cause of their frustration.

    I've done similar threads of this nature on other games, with slight success. What i've come to realize, is that from a Service Member perspective, we see the importance of the social aspects, because these games try to mimic our lives (with different themes of course). However, it seems most of the FPS gaming community are composed of players who have never served for whatever reason (too young, too old, chose not to join, can't join, etc), so these concepts are quite foreign to them, and they don't see how everything ties in. That is not to say their aren't players who have never served, but still fully or partially grasp the concepts. Those are the small percentage of players who usually have them time to step up and be the leadership to the masses.

    The funniest part about your white paper (atleast part 1), is that so much of it comes from the real world, but so easily applies to this game. Hopefully it will strengthen what some already know, and help get others on the right path. I appreciate your writing, and look forward to reading the rest of your ideas.

    <----10 years active Army as well. 82nd, All The Way! ;P
    • Up x 3
  4. JENKMAN

    Fun, good tunes and the ability to hold one's own liqueur. oh I guess tactics to, thats important I guess
    • Up x 1
  5. Epic High Five

    Step 1) get a nose for good fights for cert acquision
    Step 2) if given the platoon lead, put the marker there

    I don't really bother with command voice chat, but I do coordinate with a few platoon/outfit leads during the course of an alert to stay aware of where the fronts are in case we're needed in a hurry. I often do this when I'm not even a squad lead, because information is a precious commodity and most platoon leaders will not mind one bit that you pointed out the platoon of VS back capping to get to your biodome while they were still 3 hexes out.

    If they DO mind, they are dumb and you should tell them this over /platoon chat before finding a new platoon to join

    Oh yeah and

    Step 3) CAT FACTS
  6. Pirbi

    I think with games like this, it could be a breeding ground. It doesn't seem that difficult to build confidence in people that listen.
    Although it can be a hit to SPM and KDR and SOE could do something about SPM at least.
    • Up x 1
  7. Crashsplash

    I can only speak for me and looking at the outfit activity, which is dire; and the outfit I am part of was one of the largest active outfit in old ps1 for many a year, at least upto the last year of ps.

    But I don't think it will recover until the metagame gets there - part of this is the command tools which are u/s.

    I really don't think much is required for outfits internal use. Better way points, resolve the positions of platoon leader and squad leaders better, for instance. The heads up display of platoon members is poor.

    But I do think a lot needs to be done on the empire coordination front.
  8. Negator

    All good commentary and will make its way into the completed post
  9. Epic High Five


    Leadership? What is that, some kind of german boat?
  10. Negator


    [IMG]

    DAS IST EIN DEUTCH BOOT
    • Up x 5
  11. Pokebreaker


    Very true, it is not hard to build confidence in people that listen. The problem is finding people that listen. The ones that are capable of listening, are usually already leading sqauds/platoons. Then there are those who are the "quiet capable." The ones who know what to do, and how to do it, but if they aren't asked, they won't let their hidden skills be known (kind of a Catch 22). That's where outfits can come into play, with creating a good atmosphere to bring players out of their shells, without making them fear embarrassment from making mistake.

    A person who is capable of following simple directions, and not deviating too much from them (in situations where improvisation is necessary), is a great base to start training new leaders. However, that is also where invested time is required to train. That availability and desire is required on both ends, or it doesn't work...
    • Up x 2
  12. Epic High Five


    [IMG]
    Ja?
    • Up x 1
  13. Negator

    Notes for self: all encompassing goal of making outfit participation and accomplishments obvious for all to see, for the following reasons:

    1. Stress to new players importance of joining one
    2. Increase competition between outfits(people play for the glory. give it to them, they play more)
    3. Increase outfit loyalty (which leads to game loyalty)
    4. encourage folks to become a deciding factor within their outfit, and step up
    5. Create an atmosphere within the game that is more then a bland red vs blue vs purple. Give the enemy an identity. Something to gun for. Give your friends confidence they stand shoulder to shoulder with others like them, rather then simply knowledge that "48+ purple guys like me are taking a nearby objective"


    also: 'headhunting' objective for enemy outfit leaders/platoon leaders

    -off to the store. give me more brainstorming while im gone.
    • Up x 3
  14. Pokebreaker

    Leadership... Yeah I believe that is German for, A Whale's ******. Scholars believe it to have been lost in translation long ago. -Ron Burgundy
  15. Pirbi

    Fortunately, I haven't had that problem. Although we do train three times a week.
  16. DramaticExit

    Leadership is a strange thing, and there are as many effective styles of motivating as there are people to be motivated.

    The OP refers to BCP as an example, but I would find that style of leadership (hyper agressive, yelling, etc) to be slightly grating, personally... There are people who find themselves infused with a kind of ferverous energy with it, but that isn't for everyone. One can organise on a similar level with very different styles of people management.

    I wholeheartedly agree that outfits and outfit leaders need more perks to the job. At present, there is little reward for joining an outfit beyond feeling like you're part of something. There is even less reward for leading one, as frankly the payoff for the drama, stress and responsibility isn't nearly great enough at present.

    The OP has put up some great ideas to introduce new tools for outfit leaders to be able to do their job better, and a few really very cool ideas about how one might make it so that there is greater emphasis put on outfits as a whole. The outfit battlefield standards idea is particularly excellent, as is the idea of outfit-rank-based cosmetics.

    However, you've got to be careful when implementing these things to ensure they don't appeal more to a specific type of outfit and styles of leadership, over other types of outfit and styles of leadership.

    Adding tools for the TE style "frothing at the mouth" leaders like, for example (not that you suggested this, and I'm using this for comic effect), a button which allows you to yell EXTRA DAMNED LOUD at your squad, would be something that would be remarkably offputting to those who prefer the calm, unflappable and less agressive (in terms of people management) style of leadership. Those players and leaders would need tools as well.

    I would sugegst Sony gives a little attention to outfit leaders on the whole, as there's a lot of the game which rides on their activity and commitment.

    A good idea would be a straight up cert reward for squad/platoon leaders for each base taken or defended by their squad/platoon, scaling according to how numerically well defended/heavily attacked the base was in comparison to one's own force size.

    This would not only encourage platoon leaders to sacrifice their personal fighting ability (lets face it, most leaders ability to focus on shooting goes down the pan when they're trying to keep a few squads in order and doing what they're supposed to be doing) to lead, but would also encourage active combat, as the rewards would scale with how hard your squad had been fighting... Making that "hard won victory" feeling of satisfaction even more satisfactory.
    • Up x 2
  17. Ender

    As ShockVS said - "I should probably be getting paid to do this." Good stuff Negator.
    • Up x 1
  18. WyrdHarper

    As others have said, one of the biggest problems with leading is that you get burned out after awhile. You're responsible for the enjoyment of dozens of other players, with all the contingent ups and downs. Leading is a lot of fun, but most leaders need to take breaks from time to time, and often one really active leader playing or leading less can be extremely harmful to an outfit, resulting in lower activity from a number of other players.

    You also tend to sacrifice your own experience gain to boost that of others, and the game itself doesn't do much to reward or recognize successful leaders. Your suggestions definitely look to improve that; I like it.
    • Up x 1
  19. Chicken Wings

    These are both absolutely true. When I've lead platoons, it's really hard to focus on fighting and leading at the same time. Lots of deaths have come about because I wasn't paying attention to my surroundings well enough XD

    Though for your second paragraph, I just thought of a solution, though extremely minor: Squad and platoon leaders could have small XP gains for squad and platoon members who are able to get kills, etc. Nothing big of course, and certainly not more than what someone gets for spawning people on sunderers, but I think it might be a nice addition.
    • Up x 1
  20. Negator


    :)

    I get the feeling, people only ever get called tryhards in a condescending fashion when their serious style doesnt get results, which goes back to truly understanding the people listening to you (EG: expectation management). If i led a pubby platoon the way i do an outfit ops night, of course I'd get called a 'tryhard', because there's no way in hell i'd get the same results and people would recognize that before hand, and certainly after failing multiple times due to overly complex direction. Half of the folks that are quick to label others as 'tryhards' are very good players and couldnt care less as long as they get to smash face under your guidance, the other half are knuckleheads who youve described.

    Key here is definitely expectation management from both those in charge and those following. My theory is that the crux of the call of 'tryhard' is a recognition of someone that is out of his league and needs to apply himself and his resources as realistically as possible. I guess I'm saying there is some merit to it, it just manifests itself in a way that isnt constructive.

    and that's the biggest issue; PS2 requires skills that no other game requires, which means we're betting on folks with the fortitude to jump in head first or had said skills to begin with (which are rare IRL). The faster SOE realizes this and moves to support this facet of the game, the longer the game will stay alive.
    • Up x 5