[Suggestion] Lattice is not fun: we want something else

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by elkikko92, Apr 29, 2020.

  1. elkikko92

    I dont play Planetside 2 anymore becouse I think the gameplay is ripetitive; the battlefield is over the same territories. The strategy is close to zero.
    I remember the previous capture system: hex-system; I know, it's not better, but maybe we need something else.
    In a lot of post I suggested lattice only on big outposts and facilities.
    Do you have another capture system, maybe hybrid between hex and lattice?
    Lets discuss and propose for the next roadmap
    • Up x 3
  2. Blam320

    Even with the hex system fights will be over the same few territories. You'll just have rampant ghost caps over the territories that people don't like to fight at.

    Having the lattice connect major facilities is one idea; I would actually change the satellite outposts for facilities such as tech plants and bio labs such that they act as one giant base, and owning the points at the satellites contributes capture progress towards the parent facility.
    • Up x 3
  3. elkikko92

    This increases the complexity of base and it becomes more difficult/impossible to take (like the Crown): I dont know if this is good.

    In my opinion there are 2 macro problems in this game:
    1) With actual lattice-system the players, when they capture a base, know how to do: go to the next lattice base. This is good and it doesn't create confusion. BUT the strategy is close to zero, the battles are the same on a few of territories.
    2) With old hex-system there are more variety on battles, but there were too many territories to attack: the players don't find enemies and they decide to find a better battle in a territory with very high population. The result? All continent empty, high population in a few of territories.

    Before choose wich capture system is the best is important create a solid metagame and a resource system: every bases must become important to have!
    • Up x 1
  4. Blam320

    I would think of it more as a logistical challenge than adding an unnecessary level of complexity or difficulty. Needing to control satellite bases in order to capture main facilities spreads the fight out, making Zerging less effective since you would need a much higher population concentration to achieve the same result as the current lattice system. On top of that, decentralizing the capture of major facilities incentivizes breaking stalemates. The biggest offenders in this regard are Biolabs; the satellite bases are all linked via lattice so the main facility can be bypassed, but people still gravitate towards the biolab anyways for the sole purpose of farming. This creates a massive, stagnant population sink, which ends up contributing nothing towards the overall strategic goals of your empire until someone decides to try back-capping the satellite bases.

    I will agree that we still need a more solid metagame, with more tangible benefits for taking certain bases over others, but we also need tools to break up and discourage Zergs, without harming large fights that naturally form over strategically important bases..
  5. ChUnKiFieR

    We need something that draws player across the complete front. Fighting over one base while losing others add a feeling of futility to the game. There should be faction-wide penalties if any unlocked base is left unprotected (playerless) on the lattice. This way players feel a sense of importance even if they aren't in a big battle at the moment. Some battles may be smaller as a result but not all. I sometimes prefer the smaller battles myself for a more of a one on one sense of vengeance I mean accomplishment.:p
  6. elkikko92

    Others problems with actual lattice system are that there are too few objectives (big battles for only 1 control point) AND the battles on the territories usually dont end, we see for hours fighting on the same territory with no progression
  7. Johannes Kaiser

    Lattice is quite stagnant, unless one side zergs it down. I also prefer the old system, but yes, there was a lot of ghostcapping going on.
    Maybe there would be room for a middle way. Say, you can begin capping a point when you have at least 5 hex sides connection. Means you can't run over straws, you need a solid connection (either by a naturally connected base or by several ones with only one side connecting).
    • Up x 2
  8. elkikko92

    Let's discuss which benefits can be added on little outposts, big outposts and major facilities.
  9. Blam320

    I would say the end goal should be more-or-less distinct benefits from different bases. On top of that, I think reverting the resource system to three different types of Nanites (Infantry, Mechanized and Aerospace) would be an interesting experiment.

    Namely, owning a base such as Lowland Trading Post could give a very small amount of each nanite resource, and give players access to a special terminal that allows them to convert one type of nanite resource into another, at a 2:1 or greater ratio. So vehicle players can convert their unused Aerospace nanites to Mechanized nanites.

    Of course, this is an extreme example, and the placement of the base means only two empires will ever have access to it, which is very unbalanced. It's supposed to be a general idea.
  10. SikVvVidiT

    It works, did in Planetside 1.. It's just that we needed better maps to direct game flow, and that is now what they gave us..

    Just like everything else that is wrong with this game, this was a developer issue.. But we told them that in beta, and were ignored for the most part.

    Everquest 2 Developers thought they knew what was best.. They thought they knew what was best when they tried come out with that crap game and got destroyed by WOW too.
    • Up x 1
  11. elkikko92

    Lattice should be only between facilities and big outposts, not with little outposts.
    When it's possible, all little outposts could be merged with facilities or big outposts, the rest are additional bases.

    To avoid the ghost cap of little outposts, the control point can be activated with more to 12 players; the control point reverse if there are no enemies players close to it
    • Up x 1
  12. Demigan

    Adding resources for capturing bases is only going to create snowballing effects where every added base makes it easier to capture more and harder for the opposition to retake bases.

    My solutions:

    - divide the continent into regions. Each region provides a bonus for the faction that owned it 100% last and provides a bonus for surrounding regions, but not beyond. This prevents snowballing, gives reasons to capture regions instead of zerging down a lane and allows each region to be somewhat unique.
    Bonusses could include things like being able to buy a targeting device that links to one of the surrounding regions. Skylance battery could provide a sudden column of flak detonations to deal damage (but not kill) aircraft. Indar Comm array could scan a particular area or disrupt map/minimap of enemies etc. Other bases could provide a set resource reduction or similar.

    - reduce the amount of lattice-links, some bases become completely neutral. Set up a few methods that allow players to build their own lattice-links for the strategy. These methods need to be easy enough that randoms can and will execute them so randoms dont zerg along the few lanes all the time. For example: the communication-arrays that are spread across the continents can be captured to generate a lattice-link between bases. The PMB system could also be allowed to generate lattice-links and protect the communication-arrays.

    - create two alternative continent starts where 3 non-warpgate bases are selected to function as warpgates, one where all 3 warpgates are relocated clockwise and one anti-clockwise. The selected bases simply receive a warpgate shield. The normal warpgates become 4-point bases that players can fight over. The frontlines in these alternative continent starts are relocated so they are closer/on the warpgates. Since frontlines are often static it means that players get to have a solid fight on bases they rarely see without it being an unbalanced zergfest.
    • Up x 2
  13. SikVvVidiT

    They were given the blueprint, them being the Development team of Everquest 2 devs...

    Ant's in Planetside 1 were used to fill bases with NTU (Power) that allowed you to continue to run the base.. If the base ran out of power, or was strategically drained by NME's (killing turrents, destroying the gen, etc) then it went neutral and the first empire to fill it with NTU (Power) with a ANT and then Cap it and hold the cap was given the base...

    This allowed strategic game play to be brought in the game.. A few elite outfits used to change the game flow by doing this...

    Lets say NC have a Zerg going on focused on the TR front... Well a few elite TR outfits would get in EFCs/GAL's and drop on their Tech way in the rear and then do a gen hold and drain that base.. The zerg was forced to either split up and defend that gen hold/base drain and possible Base cap or the NC could choose to ignore it and have their Tech (and all the things that come with a Tech) taken from them... This brought more strategy to the game and was for some reason ignored by the Everquest 2 developers that created Planetside 2. It was also a means to break Zergs...

    We tried to tell them in beta and as usual they know what is best for the game...
    • Up x 1
  14. elkikko92

    This game had great potential, but is a failure, in my opinion
    • Up x 1
  15. SikVvVidiT

    Wish there was something else out there like it.. Or even fun, I'll settle for that..
    • Up x 1
  16. Glenndal

    I like the lattice as a way of stabilizing the strategy in this game. Without the lattice, it becomes more difficult to make strategic decisions about what bases are important and to know where you could be attacked. That said, definitely not ideal for single players. The game probably has room for some looser forms of strategic definition.

    The best example of this that is currently in game is Biolabs. How easy it is to take the base is dependant on how many adjacent facilities you control. If you took out the lattice there the fights would still have the same sort of shape. The mechanics of the spawn points directly tie the facilities together, creating a pseudo lattice by giving the facilities meaning. Of course you take the outer facility first, you can't get in otherwise (mostly).

    In theory, we could do this for all large facilities. Not necessarily with spawn points, but shield walls, automated turrets and the like at amp-stations and tech plants. This both gives you a more reliable combat flow, and a reason to take specific facilities around another one, and also just something for single/uncoordinated players to do that's meaningful.

    If we want to eliminate the lattice though, we'll need to be a little more creative. So assuming the above thing about tying facilities together makes sense, what we end up with is what we could call a primary facility and sub-facilities. Lets say I have a tech plant and three sub facilities. There is one hex-blob that contains all four facilities, and control of the hex-blob is tied to the main facility. I can still attack the sub-facilities and control the spawn/terminals in those sub-facilities, but I won't gain any hexes for my faction unless I flip the main large facility. That means ghost cappers can still do solo/small group capping that will soften up a larger facility and give them xp, but they won't be able to push/contest territory control without taking the large facility. This also gives someone playing strategically a fair bit of warning on the state of their defenses, and allows them to ignore it for the moment since flipping the full set of facilities will require capping the big one.

    Now, this works great for the facilities that are already laid out this way on the map. Unfortunately, there's only 9ish facility blocks structured like this on each map. Going to hybrid-hex just updating those facilities would be a little loose, but the possibility is there. It would also interact fairly well with the facility upgrade system they're considering.

    We could actually eliminate lattice entirely if facilities were more reliant on cortium in a way similar to bases, but that's an even more ambitious rework than what I outlined above, and there's a lot of ways it could end up worse than what we currently have.

    For now, I'd just settle for some flavor of "every map has three different sets of lattice, and we rotate through them as the continents are locked". Or call the first weekend of every month "YOLO weekend" and switch to the hex system for the weekend to spice things up a bit.
  17. Morganlefey

    YOur quite right, we told them a great deal in beta that was ignored.
    • Up x 1
  18. elkikko92

    Like if you hate current lattice system
    • Up x 1