lattice base orbital strikes need to go...

Ok we're getting somewhere, look I'm not arguing that you're trying to ban tanks, I'm arguing that your solution to the issues you have with OS are like if someone thought HESH had a too high rate of fire and suggested an invisible wall around bases as a solution. They're not necessarily wrong that there's an issue but their proposed solution quarantines the focus and isolates it and it's users from the game rather than trying to achieve balance.

I'm willing to agree that 3 OS' over one base giving an average rate of fire of 1 every 5 mins is too much. But as with quarantine being the wrong (and absurd) solution to HESH it's the wrong solution to OS too.

Let's try to work this through in a way we can hopefully both be happy with.

We'll take a generic OS as it exists now. at one end of the scale, we'll have it firing once a minute, the other once every ten hours.

1 min <-----------------------------------------------------------------------------> 10 hrs

I hope that you'll agree that the extremes are respectively far, far too destructive and far, far too impotent?

Therefore there must be some point in between these two extremes where a balance can be achieved.

I hope that through discourse we can consider different situations like the positioning of bases, proximity to other bases, and other methods of complicating/impeding OS from being too prevalent and ultimately come to an amicable position on where it should be on the scale given our considerations.

the cooldown is irrelevant, orbital strikes SHOULD NOT be used on lattice bases.
its terrible gameplay.

also you're asserting that each OS relay is taking 15 minutes to charge, thats to maximum 1000m range,
most people build their one-click-70-kills machine as close to the base that they want to farm as possible,
it reaches 200m (minimum fire range) in about 7 minutes.
with 3 of these scrubs nuking everyone in the base repeatedly you can expect to be dying every 2-3 minutes.
but again, the cooldown is irrelevant, it is not a fun or engageing mechanic for one guy to click his mouse and get 70 kills and murder all of his allies in the process.
the ONLY solution is for the devs to revert their mistake and make it once again a tool
for taking out enemy constructions or killing vehicle zergs.

Getting hit with an attack that's been telegraphed well in advance is also a demonstration of terrible gameplay choices.

At one point, I felt construction leaving lattice to lattice and itself to itself was a good idea. Instead, it's been become apparent that this is another case of strawmen arguments exposing a desire for stagnancy. In the past it was: "Players need to accept reasons to have to get into vehicles soemtimes." "Players need to accept to have to get out of vehicles sometimes." "People need to accept reasons to have to get out and fight away from bases sometimes." The gameplay will never improve until players begin to accept a bare minimum responsibility for things, not just things that they like but the unsung things that need to be accomplished.

Usually, exeggerating is a sign of lacking arguments.

The only valid statements are:
I dont like to be killed
It does teamkilling
OS scales bad with number?

Also:
I dont hunt ants, assault PMBs, look at the damn map indicator, dont know how to survive the blast and generally hate constuction

This ignorance makes me sad and angry...

Yeah, that's what a lot of these posts here boil down to. I would understand it if it was about something that you get hit with all few minutes at every base...but let's face it...you will not see more than one OS every two hours or so on average...and that's counting in that people currently really don't even try to stop OS from fireing(which as such already means that it obviously is not THAT important to them). I have been hit twice(1 killed me) and seen like 5 or 6 since the patch. I mean, that's a lot more than before the patch where you only saw 1 in 2 months or so...but still. It's not like spawn shelling or lolpodding of the first years of PS2. It feels a bit like people try to distract from other topics...

wow, lots of orbital abusers here it seems!

IF THE ENEMY CONTROLS THE TERRITORY YOU DESERVE TO GET YOUR *** HANDED TO YOU WHEN YOU COWER INSIDE THE BASE.


"waah waah waah they hit me 5 times in a row with OS" then sits there and waits for the 6th one to complain about.

I DO NOT OWN AN OS.

i fully support the OS system being able to kill all my useless teammates for being cowards and hiding inside the base while the enemy is all around the territory.

play the game not the stats page.

You're absolutely intractable, I'm trying to be as reasonable as possible and you, sir, are not.

You've never actually tried to use an OS, have you?

If you had I seriously doubt you'd describe them as a "one-click-70-kills machine" By far and away the most common number of kills to get in a hit is something in the region of <5. Zero is pretty common too if the sunderer you were aiming at get's destroyed by HESH tanks before the OS comes down.

You're relying I suspect on selection bias, you've seen reels on youtube of people getting massive numbers of kills. But that represents the barest, smallest percentage of all shots fired. No one is going to brag about or upload a montage of all the times they got one or two kills.

Unless they've changed it in the last few days the range is 800m.

You know what, I think you should have to wait the full charge up time between shots regardless of how far you fire. You're literally whining about things I already agree on. Did I or did I not state that a rate of fire like that was "far, far too destructive"?

Is being shot by a sniper engaging? Is stepping on a mine engaging? A power knife to the back?

Dying is never fun, no one likes it. But no one in their right mind would argue quarantining any of those weapons just because people don't like dying to them. Hell, I'll get frustrated if I die to the same power knife stalker 8 times in 5 minutes, but that's not a sign that power knives have to be isolated from the game is it. So why is it that wat with OS?

Without PMBs no one would ever go off the lattice, with quarantined PMBs no one would ever build PMBs so no one would ever leave the lattice.

You're literally screaming like a child not getting it's own way "My way or the highway!"

Since you clearly don't build I'm also sure you haven't the faintest clue how much of the maps are covered in No-build zones which under the old system translated too "we can sit here and shell you and you can't shoot our Zerg nana ne nana"

Between that 200m minimum range, not wanting the restriction of building up near a NBZ and the frequency of 3-5 bases to be connected with no targetable ground in between you'd be damned lucky to be able to find a tank zerg moving through just the right spot and for you to be there at just the right time to fire. Then, being vehicles most of them would be able to scatter and avoid being killed.

No, you're just [REDACTED].

In all seriousness though are you 12 or something? You seem to lack the cognitive capacity to visualize alternate perspectives.

With this comment you are the one that is ignorant.

Sure i could hunt down ANTs. I could fly around all day looking over square kilometres of the map just to find the ANTs running around. Sure i could go and attack your PMB if i find it, since its not shown on the map unless you have the orbital. Sure i could destroy it. You will simply build a new one.

The problem is that this is a reaction game. You do something and i have to react to it. There is no way to go in the offensive to prevent you from doing what you doing and there is no way to get you out of business.

I actually used mine once since patch. Killed a Max and like 3 inf on a biolab platform with it. For that I died, had to build and defend the OS for around 20 minutes and lost a flash. The base got destroyed after that. As infantry I would have done much more damage during that time... ;-)

I'm quite sure that my experience is much closer to the experience of other OS-users than the stuff you make up...

Sorry, I'm like 8 hours late to do this, hope you were able to read up some of it at least. I'm just going to have a wee chat with LordKrelas in an effort to restore my sanity after beating my head against the brick wall that is Liewec123.

Thanks, Lord, I got busy so wasn't able to do much on here during the day. Yeah, I'll happily expand on the ideas I've had sorry I left you with only a crude list of my points.

Thanks, I really think a group effort requirement to erect an OS would be a seriously good way to prevent the OS spam everyone seems to encounter. It is however probably one of the hardest of my ideas for the devs to implement. At a bare minimum they could just use standard modules as parts 2 and 3, but ideally, you'd want some sort of Generator station, a computational unit ant the main uplink part. Something to give it some character rather than just more modules.

Yeah, lack of sleep has hindered my ability to remember all the points I've suggested so I just bring them up as I recall them

But yes, nerfing or removing the ANT boost is mostly a Hossin specific fix. I can't think of many other locations except those flat-topped hills where a base would be realistically out of reach of armour. There are probably some and as you say there are probably ways creative players can work around such a nerf.

I'd probably rate that as one of the less important issues atm as the current rate of OS creation means few are bothering with such creative locations right now. But if we were to solve the ROF issues it might reemerge so kind of a back burner idea.

Yeah, this is kind of a tricky one, I could see it being very hard to get the balance right and unless it was combined with a minimum recharge time anyway an organized squad could do some serious spamming.

More likely this would be used as a minor inconvenience, I'd previously argued to have it drain 30k or even 40k from a silo but in the current system maybe draining 1k-5k but do so in conjunction with at least one of the other changes. So it does increase the resource stress but not to an absurd level and not by attempting to make it the control that definres ROF.

Hmm, I actually liked this one in so far as it gives watchful enemies a chance to strike before it was active. The idea was to encourage a base to be completed before the OS built.

However, I will concede that with a sufficient length of charge up time before the first shot that opportunity will exist anyway. Would only be an interesting tool if charge up times remained <15 minutes.

Yeah, my pet favourite idea, as I mentioned probably the hardest to make work coding and modelling wise but it'd be DAMNED worth it. Not sure how they'd do it though. If all three builders would need to have unlocked OS or only the one who selects part one (presumably the current uplink piece)?

Making all the builders need to have it might be a bit extreme, I mean a lot of OS builders exist these days but in my experience finding 3 players (on an EU server anyway) willing and able to coordinate is hard enough without additional complications.

Tabbing out to use google translate is a terrible way to play a game let alone build a base in that game.

But yeah it would help focus that aspect of the game towards organized regular units like how the devs are always pushing to build.

Yeah, I concur on this point, what I might suggest (and this goes for Flail and Glaive too) is that the anouncement remains the same length for enemies but begins a few seconds earlier for allies.

It might help reduce teamkills (which I've seen comments mentioning) and it logically makes sense that you'd at least try to warn your allies when calling down an OS less than 50m from their position.

Hmm, sort of like a temporary OS shield handwaved away to the lore as Ionization in the atmosphere preventing a viable target lock on that location or some such?
That's an interesting concept, I rather like it, even if we were using a flat minimum of 20 minutes between shots from one OS a second one nearby couldn't immediately fire on that same location.

Yeah, I like that a lot.

There would be options around the size, and duration of the cover provided too, I'm thinking it could maybe be made to start out quite considerable and gradually shrink, disappearing completely upon recharge? Say for 30-minute cooldown
0 minutes after firing Radius = 30x
10 minutes after firing Radius = 20x
20 min, R=10x
30 min, R=0

x being an as yet undefined distance maybe 1m, maybe 5m whatever seems suitable.

In this way, while you couldn't hit the exact same spot right away the No-Fire Zone would gradually shrink exposing more of the base to an alternative OS site..

It's more complicated and I admit might serve to undermine the concept a little but I quite like the idea of it not being a simple on/off mechanic as soon as the original OS recharges.

Actually, your idea has reminded me of a couple of other thoughts I've had on another thread one which was actual OS shields in certain bases, overloadable like regular shields but while they're up places like Bio labs, Amp Stations and Tech plants could not be targeted by OS.

The other has some parallels to your idea but related to the Glaive and Flail (a little off topic I know) Presently thy cannot shoot into bases and the Devs explained to me that a 15s reload time (on the Flail) was far too powerful to target into bases.

So I got to thinking, give Lattice bases an Electronic Warfare effect whereby they retaliate against a Flail dart that comes too close. If it lands inside the No-Build Zone (NBZ) a moderate EMP effect is felt and the recharge time before another shot can be made is bumped up by 15-25 seconds.
Further it the dart falls inside a bases No-Deploy Zone (NDZ) it's Flail is hit by full countermeasures.

The effect being cumulative the 15 second standard + time from the NBZ + time from the NDZ = a 90 second (or more) cooldown before it can fire again, further it's accuracy at this stage is wildly thrown off, the 4 shells land randomly in a region about 15m+ radius around the dart essentially preventing any targeted bombardment but not making it totally worthless at a Lattice base.

Thoughts?

Very much so, I've tried to explain the concept of selection bias and how it's the top 1/100,000th or so shots that make serious kills, the rest of the time we're waiting on viable targets that won't see the strike coming and evade. I got a Gal last week only because he wasn't paying enough attention, he was a repair one sitting low this a hoard of armour hammered into my PMB, they were all inside the 200m radius and safe, he however was not. I got a Gal and 1 Kill with the entire 3 hour lifetime of that uplink.

I made 4 Magrider kills, 2 lightnings over 20 players with C4 and small arms.
2 Vanguards a lightning and a Sunderer Assist and 10 more kills with a Flail.

Literally, the OS was the least useful tool there. Someone else in my squad got a shot off with it, I think they got a sunderer and maybe 5 or so infantry around it.

Wooo, totally OP must nerf.

I know, I bent over backwards to try and meet him in the middle somewhere but he actually seems to think that an OS with a 10hr charge up time is OP.

I raise you last week when my OS base next to Gourny Dam stood mighty and proud while the VS simply captured all the lattice bases around it.

Somewhere here I talk about an OS I got a Gal and 1 kill with it in three hours, yeah it was this fight, we lost the lattice around us but my god was it a fun fight, near the end when the base was on its last legs the NC drove off the Magriders and took up the assault, but we'd been building Flails to hit those maggies and boy did we roast some Vanguards instead. I've not fought a battle like it in a while, and in terrain, I'd never normally see but for PMBs.

We died like frogs in a blender, they died like frogs in a blender, this is Planetside 2 that's what's supposed to happen.

What kind of logic is that? Sure I can destroy your tank...but then you get a new one. Sure I can kill you...but then you respawn. I can not prevent you from building tanks(and to get the resources you need to do nothing and it is way faster than OS reloading) or respawning. So unfair and it's ruining the game cause tanks and infantry can kill me. Boohoo...

You got like 10 minutes after the OS shows up on your map...and usually 1-2 minutes when it shows up on your minimap. For a Silo+flail I'd say you need like 7 minutes...for a lightning to kill the silo you need less than that(a one man base needs much longer to be build than to tear down by one player). And yes, you can only react...that's normal for threats. You can prepare yourself...but then you got to react when it shows up.

you mean like me and a few others do most days? not JUST to find ANTS, to control the territory so my team deserves the base. be nice if the deathmatch nubs would learn some defensive strats instead of just running around pointing and clicking their mouse at things.

the problem is nubs refuse to learn basic strats, refuse to learn the counters to those basic strats coz they never learned them, refuse to take 90secs to do some basic prepwork before settling in to camp at a base for 30minutes, refuse to use comms and share intel and strats, refuse to do things when requests are made and refuse to be any damn good at a combined arms territory control game coz they want more numbers on a stats page instead of learning skills and teamwork.


if you dont control the territory you dont deserve the base.

play the game not the stats page.

Thats BS and i can tell you why. When the game was new players tried to do strategy and work together. The game developement got into the other direction. Working together was less important, you can even see this when looking at tanks or the lib. Suggestions to get more team play into the game where ignored. So players got custom to it and most coordinated oufits desolved over time. With this in mind what you saying simply dont fits into the game. After years it becomes hard to say "but you can work together and do it" when all the developement focused on a single player experiance.

Well, lets see. If you get a tank and i destroy it i have the chance to control your nearest spawn so you have to get one on anotehr station. If you get a Sunderer to attack my lattice base i get a clue where you have to put it (range is limited) and can prevent your attack by attacking your lattice base. So i cannot only react, but i can also prevent. I can make easy predictens where you might get your vehicles and where you come from and i know where you want to go.

With bases this becomes different. I had a nice example today. I took some players to attack an OS. We destroyed it and the base. 15mins later the same player simply tries to rebiuild it. Can i prevent it that he starts building? No i cant. There is no system in place that allows me to prevent it besides always look there. I have to defend lattice bases where you have to control 1x1 km around it for possible OS bases that are build. You should have a look on how much terretory this is. Instead of having to control the base and the proximity i have to control an area that is big enought to fit 6-10 lattice bases in different lanes, in some cases inaccessible due to terrain and half of it belongs to other factions.

So to put it simple: A system that forces players to react but does not allow prevention is a bad system as it always benefits one side.

So, as long as you can do something that prevents orbital strikes from being made operational as long as some (contestable?) conditions are met, you would deem it workable then?

how about stop demanding it cant be done start listening to those that tell you how to do it.

just had a run on NC connery, mob of nubs sitting around at a base getting nuked again not responding to any warnings or getting anything done as usual.