Last try: An overview of my (unbiased as much as possible) views on AA FLAK balance

Missing the point. Flak IS indeed fine, and I feel as an ESF pilot, that it's almost UP now.

However... from a metagame perspective:

The issue:
Burster MAX units have only one viable coutner - overwhelming infantry. However, if infantry can get into the base and actually kill the MAX suits, the base has probably already fallen. This effectively negates nearly all possibility of CAS playing a role in the cap.
Skyguards are way too weak to be an effective, viable alternative to the Burster. It can't hide, and doesn't hit as hard in practice.

Wow.... You sir, get the Troll of the day award. Go back to your other thread that whines about everything being okay.

You don't need overwhelming infantry to deal with bursters. You need enough bodies to suppress them, sure, but that doesn't have to be a hell of a lot. You can't operate a Burster team under infantry fire, you're just going to die by inches. Infantry pushes you back, you lose the plum firing solutions, you can't protect the guys fending off the enemy infantry, you lose more ground, checkmate. That's assuming of course that a Liberator doesn't manage to dump off a wad of bombs on you before dying.

I'm a firm believer that any attempt by aircraft to beat anti-aircraft elements in a stand up fight should be added into Zapp Brannigan's Big Book Of War. It's got to be too stupid to be allowed to work. It's like trying to beat scissors in a game of rock paper scissors by using paper in both hands. You don't see infantry players complaining that they can't kill tanks with small arms fire, or tank players complaining that they can't employ a giant comedy fly swatter to remove air threats.

Anti-air is not about a battle between ground and air, a contest of skill and wits between pilots and gunners. Anti-air means you don't fly here. It's not a fair fight. It's an exclusion. You either have guys on the ground to support you or you get to be the ducks at the shooting gallery.

Will have to disagree. Good lib pilots can clean up a pile of MAXes.

Mate i honestly don't know what you want.

Simply because the game that i play. Planetside 2. AA At range is weak. G2A Missiles / Flak alike.

Honestly you are not making any sense to your argument.

I'm done.

Sorry brother. Your friend picked up a counter to air. Natually, he will destroy air. Sure, that activity might grant better points and K/D, but it K/D means nothing.

Anyway, I don't see an issue with a new player using a counter-unit and destroying units his unit was made to destroy.

I am NOT saying that AA is OP.

I am saying that MAX AA ruins the metagame.

I want AA to be more effective than now, but by improving the skyguard.

LOL
I LOVE YOU
IF YOU ARE A TROLL, YOU GOT ME GOOD

if not, lolidk

but hahah that was funny.

Long lock on time makes it hard to hit short range targets.

And when they're shot from afar, pilots complain.

What can we do ?

Hey - sorry that we don't see eye to eye. I fly a mosquito too, let's not fight.
I know what you mean by AA at range being weak. But that's for us better pilots who actually know how to juke AA fire.
What about the more novice entry-level pilots who don't put in as much time as us into being that good?
What about those intermediates (that guy who always puts up a good fight but never really manages to kill you)?
PS2 is all about numbers. It's exactly why they dumbed down combat so much. Basically so more people can fill "difficult" roles. Only A2A dogfighting should remain this difficult simply because it allows air to be an effective counter to air.

The thing is, it's really hard to set up an "air support" platoon/squad as it is right now. There aren't enough people who know how to fly A2G well enough to handle the current level of ingame flak.

Allowing bursters to decimate at short ranges only, and be supplemented by a more effective, longer ranged and more lethal version of the skyguard, will allow more meta in this game. How so?

It allows a new meta option in tactical gameplay - denying enemy anti aircraft.

To effectively take out a burster in a defense of a base effectively means that you more or less have to get overwhelming infantry into the base - basically capping it. In other words, you can't really "weaken" the base defense by eliminating region wide AA as a tactical option.

It mainly hurts the metagame.

Sorry for not seeing eye-to-eye, but hey, this is the internet, lulz.

I get your point. But that would make the Burster max redundant and less used. And a SG on every hill top.

That's why PS2 is so hard to balance.

I use a dual burster quite often. Mind you, I have spent 1500+ cert points to get it to where it is:

500 for second burster arm
500 for EACH arm for increased clip size
Whatever the cert cost was to get the charge/sprint module

The maxes, NC at least, are SLOW. By slow, I mean they move from point A to point B slowly. I found out quite quickly that I NEEDED that charge ability to escape. It only propels me about 30m, but it is *usually* enough to get me away from a well coordinated attack...

Which brings me to my second point; I may or may not survive against a single ESF flying at me. I WON'T when two approach. Never. My only chance is to run, and that usually means running into another lolpod.

I rarely kill ESFs. I almost always will kill the cocky esf pilot who thinks he can charge at me without support. I never kill the one who gets in and out quickly.

You state clip size is large. I beg to differ. 1 full clip will net me 20 surface to air damage points. It will NOT destroy a lib. Two clips will not destroy a lib. Three clips won't even destroy a lib. If you're dumb enough to stick around and let me reload for a fourth clip, well, you deserve to die, but chances are you wont. I can't count how many times I would have had the kill on an esf if my clip had been larger, but it's not. Thankfully SOE implemented the surface to air damage points or playing my dual burster would be worthless due to the low kills per hour an experienced AA max gets.

Yes, a max can hide, but if you do get to that point where you are in an unexpected place you NEED to have an engi with you. That's an engi who is devoted to just you. You have two arms with 28 rounds each, and 168 (?) in reserve. A few good repels of air and you're out of ammo, slowly lumbering to the nearest terminal, vulnerable to anything that gets you in their sights. There have been times when I have gone to the EDGE of a base we're defending, run out of ammo, and a trip to the term and back means I've missed half the fight.

I won't comment on the Skyguard, as I don't have enough experience with it.

Imagine a ton of burster MAX units sitting atop the airpads of Crossroads Watchtower, which you are attacking. How, may I ask, can you eliminate the long distance threat that this imposes? You need to cap the base to even get enough people up there. Same for amp stations, tech plants, etc etc etc.

This removes the possibility of the tactical option of denying the enemy long-ranged anti-aircraft. I dont want air to be able to fly in the area (or fly easily for that matter) UNLESS long range AA has been neutralised.

I say: EXACTLY. you miss the point.
I want my friends to take out AA. Not me. But my friends can't take out burster maxes until we get enough people up there. How do we do so? We uh... break all their defenses, push past their outer defense line also capping B and C (tanks, whatnot), all that stuff, and conquer the 2nd floor (and the A point) and.... wut, we capped the base while trying to kill the AA.

You see, bursters should only be able to defend the tower and not deny enemy air from entering the hex. Skyguards should be the ones denying enemy air from entering the hex.

You can then use armour, lancer squads, phoenix squads, or strikers (if it doesnt run IR smoke, which it probably will) to neutralise the AA.

Adding to the metagame.

Your opinions are invalid. You are operating outside of effective cover of a structure, and you are operating alone.

Get 4 more buddies, as normal operating platoons and well defended bases have, and you will simply destroy stuff. Imagine having 8 burster arms, basically.

That's the trouble.

Sorry about needing an engineer with you. Why? TEAMWORK LULZ STOP TRYING TO SOLO FFS

Its not too bad really - if SOE stuck to their meta, AA should be a deterrent. Just nerfing Burster MAX would restore AA to the role of deterrent.

A2A combat is already more rewarding now with the increased vehicle kill XP and lack of deconstruct. They should put a nose gun air-to-air kill bonus XP, undo the rotary projectile speed nerf, and shift the air superiority role back to air, and leave AA as a strong deterrent.

Deterrent simply means the Burster MAX needs to lose some AOE radius and effectiveness at range.

The only other ground AA that is not balanced today is the GD-40F. That thing is a serious joke and just in bad need of some tuning.

So yes NERF Burster MAX, no don't buff Skyguards, and yes buff GD-40F.

Also buff ESF rotary projectile speed and put in some extra bonus to encourage dogfighting A2A. Air to air just isn't viable whenever AA ruins the party which happens today anytime a Burster MAX is present.

Other MAX issues - they can be rezzed, they don't render and show easily, they can run and hide. The only other form of infantry G2A is lock-on launchers but those actually have a hard counter with flares.

Burster MAX makes AA in this game totally broken. It renders dogfighting and A2A combat both needless and reckless since you get killed by the Burster MAX instead.

This is only valid as long as certs are the only important thing in the long run!

Hopefully when territory actually matters (forseeably, by reducing enjoyment of the player the less territory they hold, no idea how) the system I propose will be effective.

Besides, a skyguard on the hill is just asking to be AV Lockon'd
And also, Burster MAXes will still be invaluable during organised operations, but won't be pulled simply for the certs during a defense.

The drop in dual bursters will be offset by the rise in skyguard effectiveness. There's a limit too - if too many skyguards are in the area, nobody will fly there, and the skyguards will get bored - thankfully this corrects itself.

disagree to no buffing skyguard.

skyguard needs serious loving for the vulnerability and the lack of power, and the tiny clip size.

also, making it a powerful counter will open up much more meta than leaving it a deterrent. it'll be like a generator that needs to be taken down.

I think you missed my point. I simply find it ridiculous that my friend can shoot down ESF's on his first day playing at 1500 meters or FURTHER. It comes down to a game of skill, and investment. He invested absolutely NO certs in his Max. I could understand if he had to invest points in a "Anti-Air" spec or something. But he just logged on, and started wiping ESF's. (really, I don't mind, he sits on ground behind a tree while I roll air.

But the point is, no matter what, he should NOT be able to shoot down an ESF at 1500 Meters. 1500 Meters is nearly a Mile! I don't even think he leads his targets when he shoots. He just prays and sprays and gets the kill. I understand K/D ratio is not important or something to strive for in a game of strategy. But Dayum! Day one, killing level 50 pilots with a stock Max? Come on Planetside! There's something wrong here!

..? lock-ons?
lol?

Funny that you have to cap/push into a base to eliminate the AA maxes. I seem to die to enemy tanks and libs more than I die to enemy infantry.

Stop thinking about being an ESF pilot. Think about COMBINED ARMS. If you can't get your air in there to eliminate your threats you'll have to rely on another force.. in this case MBT or libs.

exaggeration either on your part or your friend's.

@1500 meters vehicles don't render. LOL

anyway, nice try, if you're a troll.

also:
you can't spray and pray an AA max. you actually have to have some basic leading skill.
lololol you cant really kill a good esf pilot with 4-6 burster maxes if he knows his ****, don't talk about a single arm burster max.