All the heavy weapons seemed designed to have a Niche. The JH is easily the best shotgun in the game. It's crazy good for a shottie. Of course it is weak outside of 10 meters and punishes misses severely. The Lasher has the potential to be good, but the splash seems fairly week and the bullets are easy to dodge. Despite this it is theoretically good against large groups. The chaingun is a solid weapon when you have the fast spinup/ high fire rate module. Limited in that it's difficult to aim for headshots as the thing spreads all over the place, but it's almost impossible to miss at close range. Seems like all heavy weapons are designed for more or less close to medium range...this is just a noob's perspective. I am sure some of you longer heavy assault vets can provide more nuance on it.
The Lasher suppression is pretty decent, certainly compared to anything else in game (only the Fracture 1.0 was probably clearly better), its indirect damage is pretty good when compared to the direct bullet damage and RoF. If it was any better in this role, it would be hideously unbalanced. With any purely direct fire weapon there's not a lot of point in firing at things you cannot see, because you cannot hit them, with the Lasher you can hit things way before they can see you, which is highly effective suppression. You can argue that the Lasher is "useless", yet the reality it in any situtation where suppression is effective (and you're fighting VS) you'll be facing a LOT of Lashers.
The problem is that a single Jackhammer is effective, a single MCG is effective, but a single Lasher sucks. Realistically, buffing the Lashers ADS speed and/or Velocity to 150m/s wouldn't effect it's usefulness when used in large numbers but would buff it's effectiveness when only one person is using it.
But then equally 10+ JHs certainly, and 10+ MCGs to a slightly lesser degree, aren't the serious force multipler 10+ Lashers are. Personally I'd have no problem with the Lasher being buffed as a 1on1 weapon, but it then HAS to lose its suppression and force multiplier abilities if it does get buffed like that. Planetside has been down this exact road in PS1 (with very similar complaints), with the Lasher, it end up in the PS1 Lasher 2.0 superweapon - there will be people still at SOE/DBGs that remember that and remember it was (and still is) the worst balancing mistake in MMO history!
Which is why I'm not interested in changing it's DPS. Make a bit more accurate by increasing it's velocity or/and maybe allow for better ADS strafing speed since it's hip fire was nerfed into the ground long ago. Right now it's an assist machine and only useful if an organized squad / platoon pulls it en mass which is hugely prohibitive to the vast majority of new players.
I would think buffing the Lasher bullet speed wouldn't break it. Makes it better when you are fighting someone strait up -- but doesn't increase TTK and doesn't buff suppression abilities.
I could maybe see them giving it a small bullet speed increase, but even pushing it to lowest shotgun speeds would likely be too much, but I'm very much less convinced about ADS and .75 ADAD dancing whilst spaming it, again due to its nature of use and how well that would gel with it (basically the reason behind it not having low hipfire in the first place) and its ability as a force multiplier. And used like that it is very effective indeed and only really comparable to the Pounder TR-wise, NC have nothing like either really. Like I said this is the exact road we went down with the PS1 Lasher, the original weapon was great (but difficult to use well), and SOE listened to all the "Lasher sucks" comments. Then they buffed it into the Lasher 2.0 and the entire game went pink, the Lasher 2.0 just took down anything & everything, and everyone eventually went VS because it was basically unfightable (never mind beatable). After almost destroying their game for 2 weeks, they nerfed the Lasher 2.0 into the Lasher 3.0 which was very similar to the Lasher 1.0.
Its not for 1v1 combat. It's a support weapon. And it's pretty (expletive) good at what it does. It supports. so you want a mode that gives the player, effectively double ammo and gives them both a Lasher and an LMG? seems legit. Which one? do you want an Orion? a Polaris? why not a BR? how about a shotgun? SUGGESTION: Jackhammr Buf Giv jakhmr alt fire mode where it turns into a Gauss saw Suggestn; MCG MCG needs to have a shotgun mode think about what youre suggesting, here ALSO another mode from turning into your run-of the line LMG? ALSO? so itll be a lasher, an LMG and..... give you the original version of zealot overdrive or something? PLEASE tell me im responding to a troll post
Only the Pounder is also amazing at 1v1. I let this slide last time but this wasn't the case at all, and yes I was playing VS on PS1 when it happened and it didn't go down like that at all. If anything what ruined the game was core combat since no one liked fighting in the caves but everyone wanted the hilariously OP Flail and Maelstrom. Not to mention that quadshot jackhammer agile users were a thing for far, far longer and effectively made going up against the NC in bases nearly impossible. Of course, BFR's were the death-nail for that game.
Indeed it is pretty good, but then it is on a MAX and isn't as good at suppression due to having to reload. If you don't remember every continent on every server turning pink for 2 weeks, it is quite simply because you weren't playing. By the end of those two weeks VS was up to 50-75% world pop on every server and the PS1 forums were in meltdown. As I said I still clearly remember a bridge battle (on of the 300m long bridges across proper PS1 water), with NC dug in defensively on one side with AMSs, Vanguards, MAXs, Air support and 1 lone AMS on the other end and a VS Lasher 2.0 foot-zerg....... the VS took that bridge in under 5 mins purely through Lasher spam (as it had its AV massively buffed and is range buffed), that was WHY all the servers turned pink as it was effectively unstopable as it was a be all/do all weapon and a serious force multiplier. The PS1 Lasher 2.0 would be like the PS2 Striker 1.0 and Fracture 1.0 being combined and given a further AI buff! Honestly PS1 Lasher 2.0 denial is never going to wash whilst there are still those around that lived through it!
Firstly, this is not a troll post Secondly, i believe you may have misunderstood me. I did not mean all of these suggestions layered on top of one another, because that would obviously recreate the Lasher 2.0. I was simply stating different options for a buff. The reason i made this thread was because currently, my Lasher just sits in an unused class slot, and only comes out on the rarest occasions, such as when there is a good spot to camp and a stream of enemies coming from a sundy. I would like to see it have some sort of change, even if its just the option for HVA ammo and posssibly a slight buff to the splash. Something to make it better at its 'proper' range and maybe, just maybe, get its theoretical TTK under a second, or at the very least just over a second. Because honestly, im not going to downgrade my Orion with its 0.5 sec TTK to my Lasher with its 1+ sec TTK just so i can get a bit of damage around that corner so that enemy medic can gain some exp.
I suggest "buffing" it via an attachment. Shoot fasta Increases fire rate by some amount (let's say by 25%) Reduces AoE damage by another amount (let's say by 30%)
I wonder how many players in this thread are trying to make a picture of lasher effectiveness by using it like a normal lmg, completely ignoring the unique features that let the weapon be competitive even on 1 vs 1. if you use it like it was an Orion you will be obviously and rightfully stomped. the weapon is not suited to go for bodyshots, just consider these reasons for that. it has extraslow bullet speed, that makes you miss a lot. BUT it has AoE, meaning that if you aim to the feet and miss, you will still be doing damage (if you go for bodyshots and miss you will do 0 damage) it has extremely good hipfire CoF, meaning that the weapon is well suited to hipfiring. you need to use this as a movement speed advantage over the enemy (aka making him miss while you hit him 100% of the times with indirect partial damage and casual direct hits.) lasher isn't more suited for ADSing than other LMGs, it has no 1.75 ads movement speed multiplier. it is not suited for headshots either, it has no 2x headshot damage multiplier. every feature of this weapon asks you to not go for bodyshot nor headshots, so go for bodyshots and die. you are using a weapon that has almost double TTK as you opponent, and on top of that you are missing way more than him because of the slow bullet speed. if you hipfire, aim to the feet of the enemy and move you WILL HIT HIM MORE than him hitting you back, and have a good chance of winning the gunfight, you will have troubles only against full flak armored full NMG bar HAs. "buffing" this weapon to some kind of orion clone would kill one of the truly unique while effective weapons of this game.
Suppression works in real life because people are actually afraid of getting shot because there is a large detrimental effect involved. This effect does not translate well to video games, even BF3 and BF4 with the "suppression" mechanic that impacts your accuracy. The only game that it does have an effect in is ArmA because one or two hits means you're out of the game. Not so much the case here with shields, regeneration, heals, and revives.
maybe by fire rate by 50%, as that would boost its from a measly 300 rpm to a less-terrible-but-still-bad 450 rpm, and of course the damage reduction would be appropriate, say 55-70%
Your talking about Cyssor, and care to mention what the population of each faction was? Cause I remember what your talking about and that simply did not happen the way you describe it. VS also had magriders on the water, and air units as well. And the VS outpopped the NC considerably during that fight. What you describe about the lasher in PS1 is simply not on par. I think everyone who played it at that time remebers agiles with jackhammers in towers far more than lashers.
I just noticed this discussion, so I'll voice what I think: The Lasher is a suppression weapon, true, but just because it is DOES NOT MEAN it shouldn't be able to kill enemy soldiers effectively. It is an ESHAW, a Heavy Assault weapon, so like the Jackhammer and the MCG (which ELIMINATE enemies very effectively), it should be able to have killing potential of its own. In my opinion, its splash damage value should increase to 107, and velocity should increase to 235 m/s. These changes would make it a far better weapon that still suppresses enemies, and can also allow the user to defend her/himself effectively when the time arrives.
Er.... yes it did. A couple of days into the Lasher 2.0 buff (as the servers were starting to turn completely pink - the next week or so until the Lasher 2.0 was nerfed the servers just went all pink as no one was playing TR or NC against the Lasher 2.0), the VS were rolling everything, everywhere, the NC effectively "dug in" (as much as you could in PS1) at the end of that bridge. In the entire battle there might have been 1-2 Mags and 1-2 of Sunderers tried to cross the river and were destroyed or driven back before they got halfway across it (by the AV and Pheonix fire), but the vast majority of the VS (90%+ of those partaking in that battle) were just spawning at an AMS at the end of the bridge and running across it firing Lashers as they ran with the odd MAX thrown in wondering why it didn't have a Lasher too! The sheer weight of Lasher fire (which remember had been buffed AV-wise (so it not only hit infantry hard, but MAXs and vehicles too), been buffed lash-wise (so it hit everything the orb flew past pretty strongly) and had been buffed ranged degredation-wise (so it still hit hard at long range)) just ground everything to dust before it. It is no surprised the Lasher was nerfed to its 3.0 state, which was pretty similar to its 1.0 state, VERY quickly indeed (for SOE). The only thing I've ever seen remotely like it in either Planetside would be the PS2 VS halloween medic/zombie Zerg. I know people like to reinvent history and to try and explain away the mistakes of the past, but those that lived through the Lasher 2.0 will never forget! It was the worst balance mistake in MMO history then and it still is to this day to my knowledge, nothing has ever been as outrageously over-buffed as that was!
