LA Role Discussion

Discussion in 'Light Assault' started by CF894, Apr 19, 2013.

  1. CF894

    Engineer, Medic, and (arguably) Infiltrator all have tool slots because they are support classes. While they certainly have many abilities that allow them to fight effectively, their unique roles require the presence of a tool. Conversely, LA and HA do not because they are direct combat classes, that is, they aren't meant to do anything besides kill infantry, destroy vehicles/objectives, and capture points. The only exception to this would be the LA's skill at planting spawn beacons.

    To all of the people who claim that LA's role on the battlefield is undefined: you have a jetpack. This grants you hundreds of unique combat opportunities that aren't afforded to any other class.

    LAs are not frontline fighters. They are just as vulnerable as an Engineer or Combat Medic. HAs are the most obvious choice for frontline fighters, they're more resilient, and have more direct firepower than any other class. So then where does the LA fit in? They flank. They go places where the enemy doesn't expect them. Its the oldest trick in the book, and it translates pretty well to Planetside 2

    1. Send your HAs and MAXs into the front of the base
    2. Send the Medics and Engineers in after them
    3. Send the LAs around the back or to the side while the enemy is distracted with the main push.
    You've probably been in this scenario at least once just by circumstance. You, as an LA, are perched on a building or rock. You spot a few juicy enemies shooting towards some unseen distraction. They are entirely oblivious to your presence. You take aim and blow their heads off before they can react. That's what flanking is. No other class can do this as well as the LA. No other class can get on the roofs, ledges, and sneaky spots that you can. LAs have access to an entire world of possibilities that is unique to them.

    The entire notion that HA and LA are getting shorthanded because they don't have Tools doesn't really make sense. HAs have a shield, rocket launchers, and machine guns. LAs can fly, and use C4 while they're at it. This whole issue seems to stem from a preconception that every class needs to have a Tool to be 'unique'.

    So, does anyone think otherwise? Does anyone have any ideas for a real niche that LA could possibly fill? Does anyone have any more ideas for the upcoming LA overhaul, whenever it may come?
    • Up x 1
  2. Wolfwood82

    Actually HA's do have a tool. A tool would be an equip-able item with a specific purpose. Medic guns heal and revive other players, Engineer guns repair vehicles, turrets, and MAX suits, Infiltrators place radar points or whatever that useless thing does (spotting is easier, and they should have been given a REK). So what do HA have that is equip-able and has a very specific purpose? Most people have said it already, they have rocket launchers. Useable against infantry, far more effective against vehicles.

    Infiltrator is not a support class, nor is it a combat class. The DEVs made a number of mistakes when making the class because they failed to give the class a specific role in capturing a base. Their best bet would have been to give infiltrators a REK instead of that useless recon device, and required the use of said REK to overload generators and start hacks on base control points in addition to letting them hack terminals and gun turrets. They wasted that potential in favor of a cheaper system that dumbs down the game play.

    LA do flank well, anyone can see that. However they don't have a specific tool that reflects that ability. I'll agree that the only thing they need for that role is the jump jets, end of discussion. However this doesn't mean that LA don't need a tool, or better yet wouldn't benefit from a tool. The wasted potential here could be spawn beacons. These would have been great as an LA specific tool, instead they are SL only and certable via the command certs tree, probably because the DEVs had trouble filling the command certs with other things.

    LA flank, but this role is often ignored or misunderstood. Few people realize how big a role LA play on any given fight and how much they impact the fight with what they do. The same can be said about snipers, few realize how big a role they play and how much they impact a fight. The best answer would be to give them a tool that is teamwork oriented and favors and/or represents their ability to flank.
  3. Hagestol

    Better weaponry, better survivability and or a new tool. Would perhaps give us spots in operations outside of harassing again, and who doesn't like that.

    That or unique spotting and targeting abilities. More damage against units in range of the ones LA spotted. Ability to use squad beacon without being squad leader. Utility is needed, and weaponry to fight at the distances we can be heard from. Perhaps the ability to survive encounters now that we don't have surprise anymore.
  4. CF894


    About HAs: Yeah, it could be considered a tool, but its not exactly a tool in the same sense that the Healing or Repair tool are. But that's mostly besides the point, HAs are in a relatively comfortable position now with their place on Auraxis. They're powerful, resilient, and make for excellent grunts and straight-up attackers. Their ridiculously loud and visible weapons and shield generally make flanking less attractive.

    About Infiltrators: That's definitely a good point. Infiltrators seem to have the least well defined role here. They're good at sniping, and they're good at the whole sneaky cloak and SMG thing, but that's really it. What you propose would definitely make the class more important. Squads and platoons would be forced to have Infiltrators, and they'd be forced to support them so they can actually destroy what they need to. The mechanic in place right now is indeed shallow and boring. I hope the Infiltrator class revamp gets some love before any other.

    About LAs: They could use a Tool to better define their roll in the game, but they don't need one, which is why the LA revamp was probably pushed back. I think the spawn beacon would be the most synergistic with the jetpack. At the moment, I usually take squad leader because i'm the only one willing to go LA and put down a beacon somewhere helpful, not because i'm the best tactician, i'm far from it. The fact that this happens reflects poor design choice: if I'm taking command of a squad to place down beacons and not actually lead the squad, something is wrong. Giving exclusively LAs the ability to deploy spawn beacons would change this dynamic quite a bit. The details of this are a bit complicated. Do we make the LA beacons available only to the squad or to anyone? I think the squad choice would be more balanced, since it would still allow solo LAs to take advantage of beacons placed in tricky places. If they were available to everyone the map would be littered with spawn beacons.

    In terms of weapons, we already have shotguns and carbines, the only addition that would remain in-line with the class is probably assault rifles. But our spot in operations is more important than just harassing, flanking can decimate entire enemy forces before they realize what's going on.

    Also I haven't played with the new jetpack sounds yet, but I doubt that they're all so bad. It's more of a nerf to close-range, shotgun wielding, tower hopping LAs than anything. In any other case it'll just be lost in the din of battle. Some tool related to scouting/reconnaissance would make sense, but the Infiltrator seems more suited to this.
  5. Wolfwood82

    1. What defines a tool? Really? Literally speaking, all weapons are tools. Hypothetically speaking, anything other then your pistol and main weapon is arguably a tool. You don't really have a set definition of what a tool is in this game. So the easiest thing to define it is an equip-able item that you always have access too and does a very specific task. Rocket Launchers help destroy and/or deter vehicle and air born threats. And HA can easily flank, I do it all the time. The difference is it's much slower and really only useful against vehicle threats.
    2. 90% of the class is based on sniping. The rest is evidence of a drastic change in class direction, a change that has not yet been fully realized which is part of the reason why infiltrators are the least effective and least useful class at this point.
    3. The squad beacons have always been meant for SL use from square one. Ever since it wasn't a beacon at all, but rather the option to just drop on your SL no matter where he was at the time. LA need a utility that helps define their role as a class that disrupts defensive positions.
  6. CF894

    1. Yeah, flanking is effective with all classes, but LA definitely excel at it. Either way, you have a point, there isn't really any purpose in discussing the abstract definitions of a tool. The important thing is that LA has absolutely none, with either definition.
    2. That makes sense. With the state of Infiltrators right now, it seems like they put the class in just for the sake of having an Infiltrator, someone with a cloak and a sniper rifle.
    3. Alright, that's true. So Beacons remain for Squad Leaders, but are still best used by LAs. Regardless, LAs could definitely use a utility to better define their role as an agile flanker, but what could that tool be? I'm coming up short at the moment. This isn't helped by the fact that, at the moment, defensive positions aren't very well defined either. Besides turrets, shields, and terrain, there simply isn't much else to defense in Planetside 2.
  7. WookLordz

    Did you seriously call the recon device useless? You obviously haven't played much infiltrator, because that's one of the most powerful tools in the game.
  8. Ketobor

    I agree that LA are flankers. Toward that end they need to excel.

    1: Powerful horizontal speed would be of great help to them. I would like to see a drifter jet improvement or equivalent that just made them skate across the ground quickly. This would enable them to flank better in non-vertical situations (which happens alot).

    2: Their ability to disrupt the enemy to allow the charge is weak. I would like to see them have large AOE weak grenades (some sort of HE grenade), and/or to gain access to EMP grenades, to promote their ability to storm a location.

    3: After they have gotten behind enemy lines they need to maximize their damage. Right now C4 serves this role, but is very expensive. I would like to see cheaper C4 alternatives, perhaps ones that have a more specialized role, like destroying turrets.

    4: On the subject of 'tool', that is C4 for them right now. A more specialized item for LA would likely need to be something that can be used after they have gotten behind enemy lines to aid them. Besides mines, this is a difficult thing to visualize. Ideally I think something like the Infiltrator's IFF dart would be best for them. Something they could deploy inside an enemy base to relay intel to their team. Ideally it would be closer to the Engi's ammo pack though, enabling them to keep deploying them to saturate an area.


    Overall they are flankers and advance troops, but this role could stand to be strengthened.
  9. WookLordz


    LAs don't need a tool. I don't want to sit there using one. What the LA needs is more speed. The adrenaline boost should be standard, and should affect non-sprinting speeds as well. Or make it upgradeable. Along with that, I would like a JJ boost type ability, like pressing F combined with whatever WASD you are pressing boosts you like 6 ft in that direction with a cooldown. That way you could get out of the line of fire, or back out a doorway quick, etc.
  10. Hagestol


    The gist of it is: If they don't want us getting close and personal then I want the utility and weaponry to fight at the range I'm detected. If they can see and hear me at 50m range, I want a battle rifle that can actually fight enemies at said range. I don't think that is unreasonable.

    As for the shotgun wielding nerf - not all LAs use shotgun, and its a huge nerf to carbs as they take longer to kill and aren't as accurate. So I don't accept that premise.
  11. Suiradezza

    1. Skip the "tool" ********.
    2. Give us two main weapons(if HA's can carry a LMG and a rocket launcher and a pistol the size of a thigh, LA's can carry a shotgun and a carbine) so that we can adapt to situations by either retreating for range or engaging up close.
    3. More jetpacks. Drifters gets you forward, JJ gets you up and forward. Drifters need reworking. Make them keep what they do now and when on the ground, give a hover with a speed bonus and reduced accuracy. Give me a jetpack that keeps me on the ground but lets me dash to the sides.
    • Up x 1
  12. Grimtou

    Actually I think a pretty decent "tool" would be to be able to carry two different sets of grenades - ie frag/smoke, flash/conc, and so on. The added utility would be immense, and I think it would fit well with the class.

    Ultimately though, I don't think LA's are worthwhile enough right for organized squads to field any significant numbers of them. Medics, engineers, and heavy assaults have very specific force multipliers when they are used together -medics can keep a squad alive and in position almost indefinitely, the engineer will supply needed ammunition, and the heavy assault provides anti-armor/air capabilities.

    Light assaults can flank, where the element of surprise is the force multiplier itself, but because they are effectively cut off from the rest of the squad, the additional squad utility is limited to the single health/shield bar they have before they have to start back from spawn. Because of this, the learning curve for light assaults is pretty steep, and there are few I see that play really well - the recent increase in sound doesn't really help any either.
  13. Hagestol

    These ideas I can get behind. Versatility should be our middle and last name, one long range carb and one close range shotgun. Personally (for 3.) I'd like regular jetpacks to be faster so we're not that easy to pick out of the sky.
  14. Suiradezza

    I'd like that too, but it might get us too high and too far.
  15. Yalk

    There is no such thing as too high or too far


    Those ceiling hovering ESF/LIBS need C4 too
    • Up x 2
  16. Hagestol

    Perhaps this is the time to have an in depth discussion about this?

    Since the consensus from other classes and the devs is that we're supposed to be heard and flank with people being aware then speed and more fuel might be the answer to our current problems. Make it a weaker but much faster heavy assault so that people can hear us but have to focus to respond instead of todays situation where people can go for a cup of tea, come back and still be ready to shoot us in the face?
  17. Yalk


    I'd be fine with a more...responsive JJ
  18. Ghoest

    The LA class has no support abilities at all.

    So of course we get more kills than some other classes - we cant do anything else. but then we get nerfed for that.

    It makes no sense.
  19. CF894

    I think #2 is a main point that should be addressed by the devs. Light Assaults are, by virtue of name, a faster and more agile counterpart to the Heavy Assault. If Heavy Assaults can carry an LMG and a rocket launcher, we should at least be able to carry 2 primaries. 2 carbines, shotguns, or SMGs would not be a game changer, but it would give us an incredible amount of versatility. A shotgun and a carbine, a carbine and a silenced SMG, a long range and short range carbine, etc.

    About #3, we definitely need more versatility in jump jet options. They said they were working on the Icarus, but it seems like at the moment, its been scrapped in favor of more important things.
  20. vaxx

    I would love to be able to carry AR's. With the recent changes to the LA class, I don't see any reason not to give them to us.

    Not only that, but I can see SOE seeing $$$ as more people would buy AR's.