[Suggestion] Knife HitBox Is Too Small.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Foxirus, Dec 22, 2014.

  1. SpruceMoose

    If I sneak up on your butt sitting in the corner while you lick paint off the walls and I swing my knife through your neck
    only for said knife to not count a hit, something is wrong regardless of which of the knives I'm using
    whats worse I've not only worked for a kill to not receive it, you're now looking at me with your tongue covered in paint and a gun pointed at my head while I have a broken knife to defend myself with

    heres another one
    lets say you're in a tank and you've just fired at a hovering ESF a great distance away
    you sit there sweat dripping down the side of your face, you watch your massive tank shell run itself right into the ESF
    only instead of the ESF exploding into a satisfying explosion rewarding your position, aim and timing your tank shell simply passes right on through
    whats worse this ESF and his ESF friends have now seen you and your silly tank; they come, blow your *** up, land, leave their ESF's and mass tea bag your paint covered face

    we're not just talking about the 1 hit kill knives all these bads are screaming OP at either
    we're also talking about the the default knives
    that take 2 hits to kill
    that worked better before this update

    but, sure lets make it so that all these knives now have to headshot to kill when they are already having problems getting in hits at all
    this would make it so that knives only worked on targets that stand still which ATM is all they really work on some of the time, we'd also have to aim and time the swings gods forbid your target reloads or looks down
    whats the point of wielding a knife then? why add that feature in? why let people run around with a knife instead of a gun if they can't swing them at moving targets?
    if these knife wielders get close enough to hit you with a knife while you're both moving; they don't deserve any reward for their efforts of dodging your fire or staying out of yours and everyone else's LOS and managing to close the distance because that hit will
    1. probably not register
    2. not be your headshot
    but, at least it would /make sense
    • Up x 2
  2. NBA JAM

    This thread is still up? Someone delete it please.

    Knifing is fine. Making it "slightly" harder to hit with knives was the best thing ever for this game.

    The fact that quick knifing even exists is the dumbest thing I've ever experienced in any video game ever.
  3. LibertyRevolution

    And you were not being killed in a montage, and you even got to win! :eek:
  4. SpruceMoose

    • Up x 1
  5. Jackplays17

  6. Foxirus

    Knifing is fine my ***. Its hard enough getting within hugging distance of someone who is trying to kill you. Then when you DO get close enough, You can knife 5 times and still get killed because that needle sized hitbox wasn't perfectly on the body when the box passed over. The knives are broken and need to be fixed. The knives are not OP in the slightest either. Every knife still takes two hits to kill unless you take the time to throw away your primary weapon, Push a button on the knife, Then get within 1m of your target.
  7. PsyStorm

    Some thing I don't think people realize in regards to Knifing. You can sure get a one hit kill but when you are around more than one enemy you lose a lot of chance to survive versus using any other weapon. With a shot gun you can pump round after round. With an sms or crossbow you can still continue to do damage. Going for the melee mode with knives leaves you exposed more than any other mode and if you miss you are most likely gonna die. If you switch to your pistol you have to activate the knife again before getting the OHK mode. Just because you can get a kill streak on guys that don't pay attention that you are there doesn't make it OP. I could do the same with any weapon if people are allowing me to kill them and not expecting me to be there. The other point is you have to be on top of your target so you have 0 range advantage whatsoever.

    With the hit detection being off it is really difficult to pull off in any reliable fashion but I do give it a 10 for fun factor.
  8. Milspec

    Your scenario of headshotting a stationary target is a classic example of skill-based gameplay, totally legit and should be rewarded appropriately. And, it should absolutely work every time, so the devs should fix that issue for sure.

    But a lot of the complaints here seem to be about moving targets not getting one-hit-killed by a hit on the SHOULDER or other non-critical area. Which is ALSO LEGIT - every other aimed weapon suffers from the same "no headshot, no one-hit-kill / 2.1 damage multiplier for joo, scrub".

    A knife kill in CQC battle should be the epitome of skill, not the epitome of scrub. If they don't move away from the one-hit-kill deal, they're just repeating the mistakes of the spaztastic all-I-care-about-is-my-killwhorescore FPS games. Those games' level of complaints about one-hit-kill knifing being too OP are LEGENDARY. So you can't assume that OHK knives are even a good thing, when it's been p*ssing off a ton of players since the day it was introduced.

    So I'm for fixing the hit registration issue, but I'm also opposed to any knife hit being a one-hit-kill unless it's a SKILL-kill.
  9. Foxirus

    It takes a fair amount of skill to get within hugging distance and not die when an enemy is looking and shooting at you. ANY kill with a knife IS skill no matter how easy or no skill you may think it is. There is no such thing as a No skill kill, Only a no skill death.
  10. Milspec

    Nah sorry, I'm on the opposite side. Why does anyone even play except to learn skill, practice skill, and use skill to accomplish things? Accomplishments should not be gimmes, ever. Just as guns have recoil to make followup shots miss and impose a skill requirement for success, knives need an "oops, I missed" aspect to their gameplay to impose a skill requirement.

    Especially if you are, as in your example, specifically bringing a knife to a gunfight with someone who can see you. I don't see how you should even expect to have any chance to win that fight.
  11. SpruceMoose

    you heard it here first
    sneaking up on people and getting within kissing distance
    easier than ******* shooting in planetside

    drop all of your guns, pick up a knife, lube yourself up and roll in certs
    its that easy

    I am completely missing your point if you've got one at all
    • Up x 2
  12. iller

    Got some melee kills in but only against non-moving targets or when I'm not moving.
    Getting ghost hits as well. (2 consecutive attacks on killing targets ... which was a pre-existing problem that I have video of)

    Yammiks made more videos of knifing this past week as well... lots of bad registry in them if you look close enough.

    PS: Discovered there's also a slow Memory Leak which leads to bad hit registry by desynching FrameRate.
  13. HadesR

    Not sure if it's been brought up and if it's my imagination ...

    But the equipped knife swing arc seems smaller than the quick knife one .. The tip of the blade in quick knife seems to extend and protrude further from the body when it reaches the top of it's arc animation.
  14. Milspec

    I'm missing your sense of perspective where you don't try to straw man other peoples' arguments to make yourself sound right. You pretty much know someone doesn't have an argument when they have to attack the other person's like that.

    My issues with OHK knives (or any OHK weapon tbh) are many, but to stick to one point (no pun intended), in a game environment, any OHK mechanic is going to have to be very carefully done, or it will be OP. Hit registration issues aside, anyone who is attacking with a OHK knife is definitely going to be OP because:
    • being a movement-based attacker, PS2's consistent lag gives them the initiative against their target
    • the limited FOV of the gamemeans their opponent is severely disadvantaged for seeing them coming / keeping them in view at point-blank range, and
    • the OHK mechanic itself denies a PS2 opponent using a non-OHK weapon the opportunity to fight back on an equal footing.
    That last is unfair enough to kibosh the mechanic for PS2 right there - in the games from which the OHK knife is being borrowed, everyone has a OHK quick-knife, which sidesteps any knife vs gun TTK issues and is demonstrably fair.

    So the mechanic as presented is bad all the way around, imo. Knife TTK should equal gun TTK, or everyone regardless of their equipped weapon should get equal knife TTK. Otherwise you don't have a chance of attaining balance.

    For my part, I'd seriously prefer if there were no OHK infantry weapons. IMO, all that does is make the fewest players happy while annoying the rest, and dismissing their complaints with the argument that they could do it too. Which is the path to stagnation for the gameplay - in the end, it'll be all sniper rifles, knives and other noobtube weapons, because every other weapon will be plainly disadvantaged.
  15. HostileCloaker

    As was mentioned above, you should watch some old-style SciFi to understand how shields work. If you too young to watch SG1, play Mass Effect (advanced level - read ME books where shields mechanics were described). And if you'll watch RoboCop (not the new teengirl oriented), you'll see that Robo's armor were perfect against bullets, but far from good against armor-piercing melee (Clarence in Robo1, japaneese Ninja in Robo3). So now it makes sense that it can kill man with shields (to slow for a shield to react) and armor (not protecting against piercing) in a single swing.

    And yes, hitbox is too smal - i know what i'm talking about, i just finished auriaxium on Carver(https://forums.station.sony.com/ps2...t-was-including-trophies.211145/#post-3063527). So it's should be a litte bit larger, or it should be a stab animation, not a swing.
  16. Milspec

    Yeeess, I'll get right on watching old sci-fi and playing mediocre, overhyped video games to understand how shields REALLY work. I'll get back to you when I'm done.
  17. Foxirus

    Let me save you some time. If I am going to knife you in the back and I am within range, I am not going to swing my knife in a way that is going to miss. I am going to swing my knife in a way where it is going to connect with your body and do serious harm. Look at the picture I posted and see how this knife should have clearly counted, But did not. People are trying to say the knives are fine being broken simply because they now have a mode that can be 1 hit kill. I say that is ********, Knives will not be a chance game. If you have the gall enough to get into kissing distance of my face with your gun, Expect me to cut your throat in a completely fair manner.

    If you are within 1m of me and more than 40% of my screen is filled with your body, It needs to count as a hit regardless if that needle sized target reticule is on the body or not. Why? Because at that range, I am not just going to thrust a knife forward and cause myself to miss because my target isn't perfectly in front of me.. I am going to adjust my arms thrust to push the knife into the closest lethal point on your body. Do the devs need to animate slashing motions to match this? No, that would take too much time, But they do need to adjust the hitbox so that it happens at all times if someone is in your face, Sorta how the old knives worked.
    • Up x 1
  18. Milspec

    I'm not arguing the hitbox should be broken, I'm arguing that the implementation of OHK knives is bad and should be different. I don't knife by choice, but I melee'd tonight because it was the best option in a CQC fight. It's a weapon like any other in game, and therefore, it should be properly balanced like any other weapon in game.

    And if a gun can't do a one-hit kill to an armored / shielded part of the body, neither should a knife. If you want to postulate superknives that can do that, then in order to maintain balance, everyone would have to get a one-hit-kill quickknife. Even though I think that would be terrible for gameplay, it would still be balanced for knives.

    Ofc, then guns would be unbalanced vs knives and they'd have to get OHK capability without headshots, and the downward spiral of the arms race commences, with everyone changing their gameplay to get the OHK weapons, because otherwise they are disadvantaged.

    Which is why you have to be incredibly careful about putting anything as one-sided as a OHK weapon in game.
  19. Rhumald

    These are not just one hit kill knives though, they only one hit kill when you've drawn, and then activated them, meaning you need to have planned to use it well in advance, and then gotten yourself close enough to reach out and touch your opponent; they are not a quick knife, they are a melee weapon that encourages and rewards tactical movement.

    ... though that isn't the real issue here, the issue being discussed is hitbox detection. I've used all three knives, and I have something interesting to report: the Vanu knives don't have any range to them, and seem to be, in my experience, the only knives suffering from horrible hit detection. When I play on my NC, or my TR, I have no issue connecting within an arms distance. The vanu's new knife, however, literally wont even connect with a wall unless you're almost touching it with your body.

    the TR's knife is loud though. I mean it IS a chain saw, but it is also counter productive to stealth.
    • Up x 1
  20. PsyStorm

    That explains a lot! Some guys saying how easy they are whilst I am using the Vanu version.