[Suggestion] Knife Fix Maybe

Discussion in 'Infiltrator' started by SGTWOLF68, Feb 18, 2013.

  1. SGTWOLF68

    Anyone else think the knife should one shot. I hate coming up behind some knifing one time then having them f- me up with their machine gun or assault rifle or LMG
    • Up x 1
  2. Hypest

    Maybe it would ruin CQC. Maybe there is a reason the infiltrators can't use a shotgun. Maybe the knife is not broken, so they can't really fix it. Maybe you should think before you make a terribad thread.
    • Up x 1
  3. Mustarde

    Harsh man. I wouldn't mind if the knife was a one shot from the back. That wouldn't ruin CQC as the only ones affected would be those who aren't paying attention or are caught off guard. SMG's didn't ruin close quarters combat so I don't think changing knife mechanics would hurt this.

    I will say however that a OHK knife from behind wouldn't change my gameplay too greatly - I roll with the TX2 emperor and it is very easy to put 2-3 bullets into a target from behind and finish them with a knife. The TTK is about a second or less, and with a silencer and laser, does very little to hurt your visibility/stealth. It also doesn't have a big impact on mobility as you can fire those shots and knife while on the move, running through people like butter. I have about 250 knife kills (most of them over the last 2-3 weeks) doing this. I've tried it with the other factions, it is about the same with their default guns.

    Hypest please troll a little less, or just stay in the general discussion forum. This subforum is not typically the wasteland of bad poasting that you may be used to there. Thank you.
  4. Rogueghost

    The problem isn't how much damage it does, the problem is the knife only hits when it wants too.
    • Up x 4
  5. ScorpDK

    To avoid people circling or running through you in order to one-shot, you might just put in a check to see if the attacked player has seen the attacker recently (fully visible in his FoV and not stealthed), and if so, normal damage, otherwise, it one-shot kills, playing a different animation (stab/thrust rather than a swing).

    It could work, yes. And not paying attention is something that should be to an assassin's favor.
    Plus, as said in another thread, the sounds for the knifes should be redone. A very silent swing, unless it hits, where a different sound plays. Stabbing could have a noise that includes the sound of the blade piercing into the flesh...

    Or have it as a cert for infiltrators. Melee Specialist. Dealing 3x normal damage when attacking from behind.
  6. SGTWOLF68

    No need to be an A-Hole man just making a suggesting this is just my opinion.
  7. Hypest

    Yes it was harsh, yes i was an *******, but i read just the first paraghraph of your comment.

    "SMG's didn't ruin close quarters combat so I don't think changing knife mechanics would hurt this." FFS.

    Seriously? Let's recap the past 1-2 months. Players wanted to get some CQC ability for the infiltrators. People from the community and devs stated that the shotguns/carbines would be OP (that's why they got the SMGs) Now please, please think really really hard. Even the shotguns would have a slower TTK than a knife that instakills. Also shotguns don't have silencer option so you would make a lot of noise and a blip on the radar. And it would be still OP. And you want and instakill silenced gun, with unlimited ammo, in exchange for the 4m or so effective range. I ask you again that think really really hard.

    All right i decided to be a nice guy and read your comment even after this nonsense.

    "I roll with the TX2 emperor and it is very easy to put 2-3 bullets into a target from behind and finish them with a knife."

    So again, please tell me why do you need a 1-hit knife if you can kill the unaware people just fine with your sidearm/knife combo?

    I would make less troll comments if you dear forum users would give me less opportunity to do so. Give us (the community) usable ideas and actual problems. See Rogueghost post. That single comment is better than the whole thread.
    • Up x 2
  8. Fethrion

    Yes. I suggested it too, it would be nice to make a fast backstab instead of having to switch into the sniper rifle to headshot someone from 5 metres away (like I currently do). It wouldn't break CQC, since in most cases you want to just quickly shoot the enemy down. BUT if it was one hit, then we could actually have melee combat more often, which is just like any real war should be.
    Of course, one hit knife kill should be available for every class. In this game the TTK with guns is so low and the running speed is so low it wouldn't hurt to actually have knife hits just outright kill you. The only melee weapon should be powerful and you SHOULD be careful not to get knived.

    The MAX fist should also deal double the damage it currently does. That HUGE FIST doesn't one hit kill?! WHY?!
  9. Soothsayer

    There's no gameplay mechanic to defend again a ohk knife and there doesn't need to be.

    What possible justification (real or fantasy or sciffy) is there for a knife doing more damage than a gun?

    If you're so good for getting behind a person without them noticing, an extra swing shouldn't take the skill out of it. Making it ohk would made melee kills more common. The toxin on the game industry right now is this belief that every aspect of a game has to be epic. Well, making a knife kill from full health taking two hits makes those frags more epic.

    If it was easier, everybody would do it.
  10. Tenebrae Aeterna

    Actually,

    In one interview, they addressed that melee capabilities were inadequate and that they were considering what else could be done with them. They talked about the old mechanic of each knife having a secondary attack mode that was more powerful than the first, which I assume would be a one hit kill seeing as how it currently takes two. (...or rather two to three.)

    Read the descriptions of each knife, and you'll answer your own question regarding why a knife would do more damage than a gun. That aside, there's currently little information on the shield's mechanics, that I'm aware of, and it's entirely possible that they work off a kinetic based system. If that's the case, they may only activate upon high velocity projectiles to, similar to an Immortal on Starcraft 2, conserve energy. The knives themselves may also incorporate something capable of bypassing a shield...of which a ammunition round simply can't incorporate. There are many potential explanations, beyond the actual mechanics of these knives within the lore, that could explain a OHK knife.

    Even if you're adept at getting behind someone with a knife, that one hit often lets them know what's going on quickly enough for them to turn and hose you in the face...because that second rarely registers, nor are the swings rapid. With stealth as it is, pretty useless CQC, it's extremely difficult to get right up into someone's face like that as is...or up in their back. Combined with the fact that Infiltrator's horrible certification gaining capabilities in comparison to, for example, the Engineering...it's not the most horrific thing in the world.

    I actually switched to Engineer just so I could obtain the certifications to put into my Infiltrator, for when I got a bolt action. Between Ammo Packs, Repair, and Jumping into a Tank...it's just a far more intelligent thing to do than play through as a straight Infiltrator.

    Personally, I'd like to see the Infiltrator become extremely deadly at melee and long range...but be horrible mid-range. Make us a Sniper/Infiltrator...capable of performing both tasks without having the capability of being effective in the heat of battle like everyone else, within mid-range. We're on the outskirts, or slipping behind enemy lines...but never in the fray, I like that idea.
    • Up x 1
  11. Valeh

    As a fantasy/sci-fi writer myself, I've done my share of the research on this. Statistically, guns are more lethal than knives, when we're looking at the crime statistics. http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/1993/10/05/knives-00000/ However, that can be discounted in a war situation as this game portrays.

    The truth of it:
    http://writersforensicsblog.wordpress.com/2010/02/20/stab-wounds-don’t-always-kill/

    It all depends on where you're hit. Both types can cause very minor wounds, or all the way up to "instant" death. (Reported average times before death from lethal wounds, even ones you'd think are instant; like wounds to the head, heart, and arteries; range from 1 minute to 20 minutes.)

    Any fantasy or sci-fi technology to augment knife damage can be adapted to fit guns as well.

    In a direct face-off, we can assume our highly trained soldiers can avoid lethal damage from knives. A knife is, ultimately, easier to dodge than a gunshot.

    As for direct lethality comparisons between guns, a lot depends on the calibre used. A .22LR is a lot less lethal than a .50 Beowulf, though both can easily kill a human being.
  12. Ztiller

    How abuot we start with the Knife actually registering hits, before we start talking about Oneshotting things?

    That said, i don't feel that the knife needs a damage buff.
  13. MykeMichail

    Tonight I knifed a guy 3 times and only 1 hit registered. Very annoying.

    This is what needs to be fixed if anything.

    2 shot kills from a knife is fine.
  14. Tenebrae Aeterna

    Personally,

    I want to see an alternate stealth that functions similar to the old Planetside, where you gain permanent stealth that's movement dependent and you're restricted to the pistol and knife. I'd then like to see them implement a OHK knife for 1000 certification points that Infiltrators can spec for.

    I would be very pleased with that, but yes...the knife actually registering every time is something that needs done first.
  15. Ztiller

    Not even PS1 had one-hit kills with knives. IIRC, they actually had 3-hit-kills.
  16. Tenebrae Aeterna

    I'm aware of that,

    I'm simply saying that I'd like the old stealth mechanic coupled with a new ability to cert into a new OHK knife at the cost of 1000. In the old Planetside, the secondary mode was 2 hits? I'm unfamiliar with the damage they did in the first, just know that they had two modes.

    That aside, even with what I'm suggesting, you're not going to become a god simply because you're capable of taking down an adversary in one melee hit. The old stealth mechanic focused on movement, so if such was the same this time around...you're going to be very careful in your progression through heavily infested enemy terrain. I also assume that the attack would leave you nearly completely visible to those around, for a second or two, meaning you're going to be waiting for the perfect time to strike a lone adversary who straggled behind his comrades or decided to park his happy **** at a terminal. Otherwise, you're going to get one kill before you're hosed by his buddies that realized you just gutted Frank. Now, you'll have the element of surprise and cause a bit of panic, but that's not going to amount to much when all you have is a knife and pistol. Kill for time, you're still going to be drastically behind the other classes in comparison.

    It worked perfectly fine in Delta Force, and despite the knives being OHK...the only time they were used were when snipers went against one another at CQC (When grenades weren't used.), someone was gutting a sniper after sneaking up behind them to be an ****, or you were climbing a ladder. They simply weren't effective enough to be overpowered in the game, you'd get one or two kills before being dropped...and even with stealth, that's most likely what would happen in Planetside 2. The time it would take for you to get those kills, having to eek around to ensure that you're not detected, would make it inefficient unless you were really on top of your game and a clever little predator.

    I should correct myself and say that it was possible to be very effective with the knife in interior situations within Delta Force, but that was because the attack was so damn fast. You could literally run through hallways spamming the knife button and just kill anyone who rounded the corner before they knew what was coming. The knife in Planetside 2, however, isn't that fast...quick on the draw, but it can't really be speed spammed from what I remember.
  17. ScorpDK

    We had a similar discussion during beta. The ability to select different knifes and Max Fists.
    For knifes, there could be several kinds with different damage, range and speeds.
    You would imagine there to be at least one knife that THRUSTS/STABS. Or, hell, a sort of poisoned blade that applies a damage-over-time effect that causes your health to slowly deplete unless you're being healed by a friendly medic.
    MAX units were also hinted at to be able to punch vehicles to knock them back / deal damage, but we didn't see those abilities anywhere, either.
  18. Timeraider

    Not sure if knifes should 1 shot.. no.

    BUT i think you should be able to upgrade the knife with certs. SO that you can for example cert into.

    IMP knife (Infantery Magnetic Pulse). It sends an electric shock through the blade, paralyzing muscles for a small time, preventing movement.
    rank 1 - Knifing someone makes him unable to move and move his aim for 0.2 seconds
    up to
    rank 4 - Knifing someone makes him unable to move and move his aim for 0.8 seconds

    You might think like.. this is weak. but 1-shotting would be OP.

    This is an example cert that could be great if you know how to position yourself.
    Are you a great sneaker? are you able to infiltrate and pick off lone targets without being seen by others?
    then this cert is your thing. They wont know your there, and once they know they are to late.

    Such a cert would be balanced for 2 reasons..
    1. if you screw up your second knife.. peoples movement impairement is gone and they turn around and shoot you
    2. a different enemy sees you.. you are dead meat so not usable in groups
    3. while not being able to move or aim, the guy can still trown down stuff (C4, Mines etc.) which do not require aiming, thus taking you with him
    4. while not being able to move or aim.. they can still call for help
    5. If you knife someone from the front ... he cant move or aim, but since your in front of him.. he can still shoot you because his crosshairs ofcourse are aiming forward (unless he was aiming at the sky)(it does work great against heavies aiming at the sky with rpgs)
    6. heavies can use shield during the immoblize

    things its great at:
    Taking down solo units without resistance or getting barely dmged when positioned well.
    Taking down heavies aiming for the sky easier, due to being able to paralyze them from all angles since his aim will freeze while looking up.
    Gives some extra utility fleeing from someone whos very close.

    You might think this cert would be really weak.. but do realise, first of all its an improvement and second of all its something they can build on :D
  19. Flag

    Or to get to activate the knife so it'll do more damage, maybe 1-shot from the back.
    While activated it could give off sound/light, and giving it a CD, so it's a risk/reward. Either you try the knife while it's "inactive" and can slash again rather quickly, or you activate it and chance the kill to either be a 1-shot, or you miss, and it has like half a second or a second of downtime before it can stab again.

    Bit like dumb fire launchers being able to shoot "faster", but if you get a lock-on with it, it takes longer to get off as many rockets but they're more dangerous.
    (so you could have "normal" knives, or ones that activate to do more spike damage, but with drawbacks - like the annihilatior not being able to dumb fire and the decimator can, but not lock-on to targets)

    Quick idea, thought up on the spot, so it could be totally broken. :)
  20. migzors

    I have some issues with knives being one shot weapons, it never seems fair for you to knife this armored soldier and kill him right away. I suppose it would be some what of a reward if you got close enough to someone to do it, but in the end the idea of one shot knife kills seems very cheesy to me.

    However, I will say that when playing the Infiltrator class, their strength is that they can cloak. Infiltrators should be able to use this cloak to their advantage. Why do you have to uncloak to knife someone? I could understand having to uncloak to use a weapon, maybe the cloaking effects your vision or weapon scope, but to knife someone? What is the logic behind that?

    The option to stay cloaked and knifing someone would balance it out a bit. The Infiltrator is supposed to be a stealthy/assassin type, he/she should be able to pull off knifing someone while cloaked.

    Something that may help the knifing issue would be giving it a range of how close an enemy needs to be to make contact. Since weapons have cross hairs, the knife should have a visible range indicator on how close the enemy needs to be to use it. For example, when you equip the knife, a circle appears around you on the ground to show where the enemy needs to be to make contact. If you REALLY would like a one shot knife kill, the circle could change colors to show when you are primed for a one shot knife kill. If you approached someone from the back, the circle would turn red and a knife attack would cause instant death. Anywhere else on the enemy would be a green color.

    I also like the option of changing up the knifing mechanic all together, and perhaps allowing the Infiltrator to place an exploding device onto people, you would have to remain cloaked and place the device with "e", but it adds a different element to close combat and can really cause damage to the opposing side if the enemy runs towards their allies.