Kill the K/D Statistic. It's killing Planetside. Seriously. It's time to Reevaluate The Effect.

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by inigma, Jan 3, 2013.

  1. Kaibah

    Removing K/D won't do anything. Certifications is the name of the game and people will exploit the cheesiest tactics to get as much as they can.
    • Up x 1
  2. Spartan 117

    Agreed. If it isn't K/D, its score/hour, if its not that its bases captured/defended, if its not that....it goes on & on & on. Removing K/D won't accomplish anything other than to pamper the ego's of players who think they are better than they are.
  3. Quake

    That is such ********, How do you know "I" don't help? I actually help our team in ways you could never imagine. Saying go back to CS is not an insult, maybe you should go back to WoW!

    Just cause I argue for KDR all of a sudden this guy here has me figured out, my guess a .3 kd winner.
  4. Quake

    you should come to Matherson and roll NC, I love killing players like you, over and over and over and over..
  5. Quake

    EXACTLY. It's a new system to appease the try hards, the zerg masters, the guys who play with no tactics, no thought. They get rewarded by a system that is 24/7 now go all the time, race to the point no matter how many times I die, I don't even need to shoot anymore!

    Who really wants that?

    This is an FPS game, the object always precedent is to live first! and be as effective as you can. This is and always will be a fundamental aspect of fps gaming. It will never change.
  6. Xale

    Protip. The game's current infantry form does not require skill at all. It is based on a game design which developers from these games have explicitly stated has been to reduce and remove the impact of superior skill as to avoid the issues commonly facing Quake (for example) where beginners tend to get stomped.
    The penalty of death is that you can no longer contribute to the battle, and that you potentially have to spend 1-3 minutes making your way back to the fight. In vehicles, it can potentially mean the inability to get back into the fight for far longer.
    As you said, SESSION stats. The game did not save your deaths, which meant that the KD was only ever used for the current session. Never mind that you could not ever see the KD of another player. It permitted the ability to clown around in one session without any impact whatsoever on your profile. Current system discourages experimentation and only encourages safe play.
    Yes.
  7. Matti

    I am really surprise this discussion has blown up to such proportions, I have seen very few players that would totally change playstyle in a way that would have that effect you guys say. And if K/D was such a problem then why does all other FPS games still have it, I mean all successful fps games. I understand some people care too much or what ever but the effect of it very much overestimated.
    One more thing, this duscussion is nothing new. In BFBC2 for example, in one of the early patches you could see the top player with like 0-25 only dropping medkits and reviving, even if there was other things needed to be done in the fight. Also after discussions like this. There are many things that needs fixing in this game, focus at the right things please
  8. TintaBux

    Fully agreed, K/D kills the game, most people care only about their KDR now, and it's ruining the play allot, take it away, it's not needed, most guys just care about stats now and play for stats, this ruins the fun. It also kills other FPS games, PS is suppose to be different, with a KD it's just going down the same road as other FPS, to many players that care about their stats more than anything.
  9. SickPuppy

    AGREE!!! Performance stats are for WORK not PLAY!!!! Let players opt out of displaying it!
  10. TheShrapnelKing

    I still think an XP-gained/XP-given ratio would be a good metric to replace K/D, or even score/hour.
    • Up x 1
  11. Sifer2

    Yeah this is one of those basic things they overlook. The games mechanics encourage attackers to throw themselves in numbers at the objective. In many areas if you don't do this you will never succeed. Yet the K/D stat encourages you to sit back an camp. I notice it's one of the reasons some places only get taken by Outfits. They are willing to death charge for their Outfit leader, and that's often the only way stuff gets done. But when you look at public play, you will see 100 guys hiding behind a spawn room shield....
  12. Kon

    i was going to make a post on this in terms of the leaderboard also. ill make it here if people like the ideas i will expand on them with a proper post..

    The Leaderboard

    Ranking on the leader board is important to some players / even newbies but atm it basically is a list of players with the person at the top having played the most(hoping you get the point) basically a new player joining today has no hope of getting in the top 100 of the leader board ever assuming the top 100 keeps playing the way they do.
    He can be better than them play harder than them and he wont catch them ( if he does it will take a long long time) due to the lead they have. Sure you can sort the leader board but I take the default sorting as the proper ranking. what I would like to see for the default ranking as a Score/Hour Measurement and that's the Total Score Divided By the Total Number of hours played. This way a new player once he knows the can rank on the leader board if he is good enough, it will also mean new players who are good can shine and organized outfits can recruit them ( not the invite everyone zergfits)


    SPD

    on the TAB scoreboard / in stats SPD should replace K/D plain and simple what is SPD? its Score Per Deposit or the score one player can acquire between each tick of the resources. less spiky that SPM or Score Per Minute, this is not to be confused with the Score/Hour currently in the TAB scoreboard that will just stay the same basically as a reference to how many certs your earning per hour really. SPD could work, especially if they tweaked XP gain to favor useful actions over the bad ones. like keeping a max alive for longer or chain revives etc.

    K/D

    Before I start talking about K/D ill let you know im not the best player , my K/D is just Shy of 3.2(it goes up daily as im getting back into the swing) it probably would be higher if i could fly a aircraft ive barely for 15 kills with a Reaver. and my highest vehicle kills is 1500 with a Lightning, all the rest are sub 400. my BR is 56 and I Ground pound 90% of the time I'm in Game, over 5K kills with gauss Saw , 1K with EM6( started using it 4 days ago) and almost 1K kills with Shrike. like i said if i could fly it probably would be higher as i could have made use of the time where air was OP.

    I despise tracking K/D with a passion because if your K/D is lower than someone elses they take this attitude that they are far superior where it might just mean they are better at flying for instance. I only really ever played Older FPS like CS / DoD (1.3) for me K/D wasn't an issue as it wasn't tracked or anything all you had was your score for the MAP and when it reset you could go again, you tried for the Objective/Eliminate and the round was over when you did. You did it to win the round not your score ( if you were playing it right) and its that game play i miss, you can say ignore it but you cant i want to keep it at a certain level for my own personal reference and in the back of my head when i die 10 times trying to rep that generator or get that clutch save of a base i know in the back of my head i need to rack 30+ killstreak to make up for that its subconscious, and the more you get pwned by tanks and libs etc the more frustrated you get.

    But how do you remove K/D simply not show the stat anywhere in-game or in the new API? that wont work as people will just manually convert it with a calculator divide their kills by their deaths and do it that way the only way to truly remove K/D is to not track the Death Count at all technically we don't die we are all immortal in this game with no death count ( i mean they would track in on their servers for their own stats) and what i mean by that is Deaths are not displayed anywhere in stats there would be no K/D but what would we do for kills , unfortunately Kills is how a portion of Xp is earned so is medals also streak bonuses etc etc so they will have to track Kills but technically are they really dead or have we just forced them to respawn, yes they will have to track it but they don't necessarily need to call it Kills. Basically No K/D and no tracking deaths eventually we would all lose track of how many we have had and then we can get to the business of moving away from Padding K/D( which is why i think most people are at the farms to showoff how un-effective their gameplay is :p ) and farming certs. At the very least remove death count from perm stats this will purge K/D and make it a per session based K/D in your TAB scoreboard when you logoff that sessions K/D is lost and you can try to do better next time.



    Griefing

    Will just touch on this briefly as a player when you are griefed by some **** who kills you once, or spends the night killing you on purpose because hes had a bad day, eventually he gets weapons locked and 10-20 minutes later it wears off and he is Free to continue on his merry way no penalty what soever but the people/person he killed has multiple deaths on their stats permanently that is there though most likely no fault of their own. how is that fair the Person being griefed is permanently punished yet the **** gets away scot free... Just something to think about


    TL/DR

    Leaderboard Base Sorting by Score/Hour ( Total Score / Total Hours Played)
    SPD - Score Per Deposit to replace all mention to K/D
    Remove K/D by removing the death Count no Deaths no K/D can ever be mentioned.


    Thanks for Reading, if you want a More in-depth Post with screenshots etc Lemme know ill whip something up for you guys..
  13. applecherry

    I am superior and I only play infiltrator...
    [IMG]
  14. Kon

    you probably are, i spend most of my time trying to take out tanks etc and getting pwned. as apparently thats HA's job. but K/D for me is only for my reference i could care less what everyone elses is just irritating to know that im based soley on K/D by most people not by how many sunderers ive blow up or how many times ive repped a SCU to die seconds later. saying you want to move away from K/D as a reference but leaving it there people will ignore whatever SOE says and still judge you based on it

    Perfect example was in a Biolab with a Splat Max had 118 Kills 8 deaths, good run! but the engineer backstopping me who was dying to all the rockets/fire that missed me had .7 K/D for the session yet he kept me from dying multiple times I wouldn't have been able to crush their offensive if it wasn't for him so why does my high K/D make me any better than him whom made it all possible... and that is pretty much all i have to say now.
  15. Lord Robert

    Doubt they are going to move against the KDR with the new partnership with MLG.
    Kind of moving in the opposite direction really..
  16. RobotNinja

    For starters, SOE already moved KDR to the Stats page. When you click on your profile page you don't even see it.

    Secondly, Kills = XP. XP = Certs. People who sit back and farm/camp are gonna continue to sit back and farm/camp regardless.

    What's even more hilarious is some of the "notable" PS2 players who have also chimed in about how KDR is bad for the game yet they themselves are some of the biggest campers/farmers in the entire game. If that's how they play the game, power to them but they're not fooling anyone complaining about a KDR stat is totally "holding them back".
  17. Kon

    they sit back and farm probably because they are good and are bored with the way the game is and they figure if this is how soe wants it right now im going to do my best to point out the flaws and make sure they change it setting an example wont do anything but abusing the systems works most of the time
    MLG is MLG it has nothing to do with the PS2 Live servers. they will be instanced and separate from the game we play and the stats we see in-game have nothing to do with how the weapons shoot etc they have simply show what stats they want depending on what MLG is looking for, for the MLG Rankings or whatever maybe make that a feature for people participating only and they have their own ranking/ scoreboard system not tied to the PS2 Live servers or the Player API ( maybe a Tab for MLG activated accounts etc)

    If the tab scoreboard showed K/D ratio for your session i can be ok with that but in reality any game with this many vehicles that can 1 hit multiple people perm stat for K/D just feels wrong.
  18. RobotNinja

    By the time the MLG playerbase is done demanding every OP weapon in the game be removed from MLG play, the only useable weapon in match play will be the default knife.

    And check this out...you won't believe how the MLG forums are blowing up right now with interest in Planetside 2.

    [IMG]

    [IMG]
    • Up x 1
  19. Fortress

    I want to remove K/D just so you derps stop talking about it.
    • Up x 1
  20. Zorro

    I could care less about my K/D ratio (which is probably why it is so terrible). What I do is care about helping out and having fun. That is what is important for me.