Kill Cam, Not Good

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by pvt.pyle, Sep 2, 2020.

  1. JustGotSuspended

    I mean if we're going to start listing things that don't make sense in this game...that would probably be at the bottom of a very long list. For example, those mine kills count towards marksmanship ribbons if you've redeployed to another fight 75m away from where you placed them.
  2. Luicanus

    True, but again I see that also as a bug, heck I'd gladly give up any and all the xp I've earned from that to have this particular issue resolved.

    When I say X is broken it's not really a counter argument to say "Well Y is broken too" there are a lot of little things they've left broken (some from before I started playing) and it gives the game a feeling of being unpolished/unfinished.
  3. JustGotSuspended

    True. I would remove the killcam for mines AI and other stuff that doesn't involve a player directly killing the other. But at the same time, I wouldn't attribute a kill and XP to that player, it would just count as a kill on that weapon, but without actually attributing it to the player. So you can still aurax mines, AI turrets and stuff for your directives - just not get any reward for the kill since it's not technically you that got it.

    People dying to it would just be seeing that they died to a mine, or spitfire or base turret, and not see a killcam or player deathscreen.

    And what I meant was just there's a lot of minor details/bugs I feel should be prioritized over this.
    • Up x 1
  4. Scroffel5

    Im aware of that. I have played as a non-sniper. I have been sniped literally 5 times in a row trying to find the guy, and when I finally found him, I had the greatest moment of satisfaction I have probably ever had in Planetside. The thing is, that dude had a perfect position that he literally had to drive across the map, then carefully slide down a mountain without being seen, and he played his class well. Never have I ever been sniped 5 times in a row while looking for a dude I was fully aware of. He even got some of my teammates. He deserved those kills for the time and effort he put in.

    Also, a 4-1 KDR doesn't mean anything unless you are sniping valuable targets. It doesn't make much of a push until you wreak havoc. If you can't do that with your sniper, you are only benefitting yourself. If you are only benefitting yourself by sniping the weakest links, you aren't truly helping your team. Sure, it may be annoying for the person who gets sniped, but if someone hits you in the head in long range, you should die, do you not agree? Thats what a sniper does.

    People want to change the class it goes on because "clientside." Thats understandable. Instead of trying to remove a class from the game, then try to balance the cloak over clientside by adding a delay based off of your ping so that people will have the opportunity to see you, or add more passive ways to detect an infiltrator. Even so, think about what adding a sniper to any other class would mean. HA: overshield, bullet tank, harder to kill. LA: really sneaky positions that no one else can get to unless they are an LA or ESF, meaning you have to outsnipe them to kill them. You can't flank or run up to them if you can't get a visual from a bad angle. Medic: Infinite health. Engineer: Infinite Ammo. Now lets see what an Infiltrator gets when they are sniping from range: invisibility.

    Invisibility doesn't matter at a range when people won't see you if you can't snipe while you are invisible, which you can't Don't use the clientside remark because at long range, that didn't matter anyways. A bullet is flying towards you and you can see that. You wouldn't have seen the sniper. The things invisibility at range helps with is being able to move into cover or peak cover without getting instantly shot. Thats helpful. It lets you move to positions without being detected. It lets you shoot and then cloak so when someone turns around, they won't see you, although you should run into cover anyways. Thats helpful. Cloaking clears spots on people who may have seen you. Thats helpful. I honestly think people just want to be able to spam Q so they can spot a sniper from range without actually seeing anything or doing anything, but I digress. My point is that in long range, it doesn't matter if you are invisible, so its the best class to have a sniper on. The simple things benefit it the most but not too much, as the other classes would. The least useful class to have a sniper on would be Engineer, because infinite ammo isn't that useful if you probably won't live to use it regardless, but they do have AV so they can deal with vehicles who come after them, so they aren't that useless. Just a lower margin of uselessness than a Medic, I guess.
  5. Scroffel5

    They fell for it, so you got it. Its your mine, they stepped on it, yeet. Its your kill. You should get XP for it, especially since that mine can help you win a battle. All of the kills on those deployable weapons can impact a battle, therefore you deserve to get XP from it. Like, the way you want to go about things, you are basically viewing it as such; an impactful tool on a battlefield, yet at the same time, you won't reward people for it? Like hey, you can aurax this. You'll take it and kill people with it and help the battle, but we won't give you a reward for it.
  6. JustGotSuspended

    It's not. It's a threat to friendlies as well, because you have no control over it. And it doesn't have an impact on the battlefield. At most you'll kill 3 people. Before needing to place more. Most of the time they're mere annoyances you have to jump over or destroy before turning a corner. They're often placed in spots that aren't related to the battle so they aren't noticed or blown up by crossfire like EMPs, explosives, etc. You don't even know when or if the mine will be triggered. It's not something that impacts the battlefield, it maybe impacts the experience of the player that triggers it, but in general it's just another way to scrape together an easy kill or two without need to do much.
  7. MonnyMoony

    Kill cam can be used to your advantage of you think about what you are doing.

    Many times I have killed and enemy, knowing they'll respawn and come after me. If you know this, you can use the kill cam to your advantage.

    Show the enemy what you want them to see whilst they are viewing the kill cam, then do something different once you know they can no longer see it (i.e. make it look like you are hiding in one location - knowing the enemy will come to that location, then move to a vantage point that gives you a clear shot of them when they do). It's amazing how effective this can be.
  8. BuHHuIIyX

    yes it is a complete slag! after the introduction of the camera, it became meaningless to take advantageous positions, since the first enemy you killed knows where you are and is going to kill. and you could spend a lot of time getting a good position. The addition of the kill camera broke the positional game completely. Not only the infiltrator suffered, but other classes as well. But now it became dull to play the sniper. personally, I am totally against the kill camera.
  9. BuHHuIIyX

    this does not change anything. The kill camera completely broke the positional game, especially for the infiltrator and light assault. Yes, you can kill and wait until they come for you, but it will take a long time and the enemy may not come at all. earlier on the minimap it showed the approximate direction from where you were killed and it was interesting to look for where the enemy was to calculate and kill him. and now you look where the enemy respawn and you go and kill him. positional play is broken. it all comes down to endless running around instead of thoughtful positional play.
  10. Blue_Lion

    Translation, kill cam killed your camping fun. You can no longer just camp and rack in kills with little risk of being spotted.

    Got it you are upset that you can't create a toxic environment for people working towards capturing basses.
    • Up x 1
  11. JustGotSuspended

    I don't get it, the death screen before would show the exact trajectory of the shot that killed you. It wasn't any mystery where the guy was considering where the line was tracing back to. People are complaining about a kill cam that basically just shows something that was already being shown to players in the first place!

    Even without a killcam if you stay in one spot for too long, whether it be the same spot or the vicinity, people will come looking for you regardless!

    I don't even look at the killcam if I die, I already know what caused it. Often when there's a hesh or whatever I know where the guys are camping from, using the same creative placement that everyone's been using since launch. Only thing I might look at is the name of the player that killed me so I can C4 the correct tank/prioritize my target.
  12. Scroffel5

    Thats war. Dude is sitting in a crevice killing your team and you can't find him? Lol. Get rekt scrub. You found that place? Good on you, and because no one can find you, now you can get free kills. Their fault, your fault, why does it matter? Let them do it and don't punish them for it.

    You are right, but not everyone does. The people who wouldn't have known where the shot came from shouldn't know because they were showed exactly where. Being shown the trajectory of the shot requires you to understand or at the very least think briefly about your positioning and their positioning and the angle of the shot. That way, you are able to pinpoint on the map where they are based on how you acted and how they acted.

    Sure, we were shown it by a diagram, but there is a difference between a diagram and a video teaching you something. Thats why videos are more powerful teaching tools than graphs, charts, and diagrams. You have to think a little bit more about a picture showing the positioning of the shot, the angle it came from, and the distance. If you are shown a video, you get it right away, and you know EXACTLY where they are or were. Thats annoying for the player on the other end. You now have all the information you need. There's no guesswork to it. You know the height they were at, the immediate area they were at, and the distance they were at. I like having to figure it out.
  13. Blue_Lion

    Got it you are a toxic player that wants to create a toxic environment and drive people away from the game. So the game dies so you can move on to ruin some game. Campers have been generally considered a toxic play style in FPS for decades. The kill cam was created to counter that toxic environment. (Given that it is easy to get to hard to reach places with fling vehicles and a implant allows climbing near vertical surfaces getting to hidden hard to reach places requires little skill for camping snipers.
  14. Scroffel5

    Did you copy and paste this, because I think you said the exact same thing before. Ok. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it is toxic. Toxic means harmful or malicious. Killing someone in a game about killing people is neither harmful or malicious. Its just the game. You are doing what you are supposed to be doing. And thats just how sniping is. You can either get into a good place and maybe get a few kills, or you can be trying to get into a good place and die before you get there or right when you get there. If someone finds a really good position, hard to see, hidden, has a little bit of view so they can take shots, why should they be punished for it? They found the good spot after all, and if you happen to find that sniper, now you know a good spot to look for snipers. Everytime you find a potential place for Infiltrators to go, you can add that to your list of places to check. The fact you come in here, spitting about how I'm a toxic player who wants to create a toxic environment is just stupid. The fact people need a kill cam instead of making a conscious effort to be more aware and learn how to deal with different types of players is the problem with FPS communities.

    Also, campers are generally considered toxic because the "seal clubbers", as Cyrious has called them, don't like being killed by someone who was waiting for them. I mean, would you? However, that will happen once, supposing you don't do the exact same thing and die again. If they continue to camp after you have died, you now know where they are, and you can decide to strategize, or you can decide to run in willy nilly and die. You could also decide to be more tactical and strategic so you don't die to a camper the first time. Check corner right when you walk into a room. Look off into the distance and spam your "spot" key. Just be generally more aware. Its not rocket science, and you don't need a kill cam.
    • Up x 1
  15. Blue_Lion

    Since the 90s non campers have considered campers Toxic. They are harmful to the enviorment to most players. So much so that the kill cam was created as a tool to deal with it.

    Saying getting camped get recked indicates support of toxic behavior over a environment that people play for fun.

    Campers are putting personal stats over group objective capturing a point.

    The only people that ever did not see campers as tocix are camper players.

    If kill cam makes it hard for you to camp that is the whole reason it exists.

    If the close combat players outnumber the campers, and the campers are toxic to the close combat players then the campers are toxic.

    Note while the same point restated it was not cut and past as the wording changed.
  16. Scroffel5

    But its not so black and white. Camping is a reality, a legitimate tactic to use for a purpose. If you don't need to run around willy nilly, and you can contribute to the game while doing so, you are helping. Plus, its a part of the game that should be there. This game is supposed to be strategic and tactical. If you set up the most amazing defensive hold or the most amazing offensive hold, chances are most of your troops will be holding ground. Can that be annoying for attackers? Yeah, and its supposed to be. Thats the thing about games with a competitive nature. No one wants to lose.

    Think about it this way. If some dude finds a good space and kills people before anyone realizes he is there, should he be punished for that? If a player walks into that room and notices the guy is there, should he be rewarded for his own actions?

    Think too how snipers are supposed to take an angle and make it harder for the enemies to advance. A player who is thinking would look around and base his actions off of what his enemy will do. Thats the level of strategy we should have in this. Adding a kill cam to remove an extra level of thinking we want players to cultivate is a step back. Developers can have a great impact on their players. They can grow them and train them, but only if you give an incentive. We should be growing players, not babying them. The next time you die to someone, think if you needed the kill cam to know where they were. For me, I know I never do. I know the angle of the shot, the elevation, and the general area of where they were. Its because I payed attention to the sounds of battle, the types of weapons being used, who is using them, who is getting kills. After they die, I know that they'll probably come back to the place they died from, and you can triangulate the way they were pushing from. Its just that level of gameplay we should have.
  17. Blue_Lion

    I never said it was not a legitimate tactic. It can be a real tactic and still be toxic.

    But lets face it campers are not contributing to the goal of capturing points they are just farming kills.

    If a camper good even knowing where he is you still have to outmaneuver him to win.

    Just knowing where a sniper was does not mean you can kill him, just that he may need to work harder for his next kill against you.

    Removing the kill cam would be babying the camper instead of making them grow. The kill cam might give a close combat player a chance against a foolish camper but it just adds to the growth of good snipers.

    Removing the kill cam places sniper camps on easy mode.
    Having kill cam requires snipers to improve their skills.

    80% of the time I could see them. (they where on screen)
    5% of the time it shows me some one on the other side of a wall.
    2% of the time it was some one that blended into the back ground that even though was in my field of view I did not them. (odds are the will be gone before I respawn.)
    10% it is a sniper at long range no way I could have seen or herd the shot. Hitting me when I had to cross an open spot. or in some funky unsuspected spot.
    2% something I knew would kill me or expected
    less than 1% when I am looking at a different screen like vehicle menu, or redeploy menu.

    Now then new player would be,
    80% they know.
    15% they are learning new locations they can be sniped from. (because lets face it a good sniper is never in an obvious spot.)

    Knowing that a sniper is on a ridge line does not mean he is dead, but requiting him to be aware he can be found causes him to grow as a player and not just sit the same spot for 10 minutes farming kills.

    *****Also if you can always know where the shot came from removing the kill cam would not make a difference. I mean really what you complaining about if people can always know where the shot came from without it?
  18. Mechwolf

    Yeah... killcams take the fun out of finding snipers... just dying once to zoom in on them makes snipers almost irrelevant. Sniper fights were fun, but I've stopped using snipers for this reason.
  19. Mechwolf

    Light assaults were slightly damaged, but it didn't almost wreck a whole gun category and stealth aspect of the stealth class
  20. xMeserionx

    Maybe they could rework spotting to where it reports a target's general area, but no longer Dorito marks them. Basically you can spot an infantry target in an area and they'll be timer next to indicating how old the spot was. On Death Cam this would indicate the area where the sniper is but would not lock on to the player.

    The only thing that could outright mark things would be motion spotters and maybe a tactical slot item that is like a pair binoculars.