K/D All servers all factions.(repost from reddit).

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by MurderBunneh, Nov 27, 2013.

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  1. Typhoeus

    Although this puts VS as having higher kd's and NC the lowest, to me the differences seem so minor. We're talking .1 differences. Big whoop? And globally the average player can't even break even with 1/1. I think it's safe to say most players suck whatever their faction. To me all this shows is this game still has a steep learning curve.
    • Up x 3
  2. Rabbitofdoom


    Judging from what you say i am nots sure if you understand what i am trying to say but i will try use your example to ilustrate it better. Basicaly you can measure every gun in game by its skill celling, skill flloor(or base potential), and absolute potential. To that there is also skill peak something most players forget or doesn't know exists.
    Skill celing is based on how much gun performance depends on you as a player. Skill floor or base potential is how skilled you need to be to get sattisfing performance from the gun. Absolute potential means maximum performance possible for a human using that gun. Now there is a skill peak. Its a very important term because it means that after certain point you will get only small increase in efficiency compared to invested skill. This means that you have propably crossed that skill peak. Since most infantry guns have similar absolute potential this means at in hands of a very good player they will have marginal differences in performance.

    Now on other hand you have a significant population of players with lower K/D than yours who have better results on their VS/TR alts. This is hinting a possibility that at their skill level TR/VS arsenal is providing better potential vs skill ratio than NC weapons.
  3. CDN_Wolvie

    It is a big whoop.

    http://sirisian.com/planetside2/population.php

    There are roughly 10,000 players that have logged in recently for all factions, the numbers per faction are about equal so about 3,333 players logged in recently for TR, VS, and NC.

    On Average chances are each of those factions characters will more than likely be dead waiting to deploy rather than scoring the kill (Except for Cobalt VS apparently, you beasts), so...

    [IMG]

    TR: 3333 x 0.922 = approximately 3073 alive, 260 dead
    VS: 3333 x 0.947 = approximately 3156 alive, 177 dead
    NC: 3333 x 0.864 = approximately 2880 alive, 453 dead

    A reminder, a squad is 12 players, a platoon is 48.

    If I haven't erred to much with my rounded off, approximate numbers, across all the servers, there is quite possibly 5 dead TR platoons / 22 dead TR squads, 4 dead VS platoons / 15 dead VS platoons, and 9 dead NC platoons / 38 dead NC squads worth of players.

    If you add all the dead of the VS and TR together, you still don't get as many NC dead.

    That .1 difference is around double the number of NC players waiting for a spawn counter to finish.

    That .1 difference is a lattice lane big fight that at the most basic level the NC lose twice as much as their opponents or need to bring a zerg about twice as big as their opponents to make up for "susceptible losses" due to expected attrition.

    If the game on the whole has a steep learning curve, the NC's curve is steeper and plateaus sooner. If you want to be competitive or just farm more certs, an informed gamer joins the VS and TR.
    • Up x 8
  4. axiom537

    You know you might be right a, .1 difference wouldn't make a big difference if we had a relatively equal distribution of that .1 difference between the three factions across all servers. But we do not and in particular we have one faction that did not get a single 1st place finish in the K/D across all servers. That does represent a problem and .1 may not seem like a very big deal, but when you realize that it is a .1 difference in a population of 300000, then we start getting into some real numbers, that do make a difference.
    • Up x 1
  5. MurderBunneh

    Yep it is ok to have one faction underperform across the board. I wonder how you would be feeling if NC had the best K/D ratio across all servers and had the better Harasser and the better max. How would you feel then?
    Realize that at anytime a very high number of players are new br 20 and below. Our noobs are at a disadvantage. A SMALL one.

    Add it all up and tell me you would be fine with it.

    EDIT: Nevermind about the better MAX part we know how you reacted to our max being better then yours in one range I would hate to see what would happen if we ever got the firepower and range of a ZOE.
    • Up x 3
  6. Typhoeus


    So you figure at any given moment those numbers are what the battlefield looks like? There are so many things not taken into account with this logic. Uneven numbers between sides for example, kills/deaths per minute, kills as infantry, kills as max's, kills as vehicles, kills per weapon and I'm sure there's more. PS2 is not static. This just doesn't work.
  7. NoctD

    [quote="MurderBunneh, post: 2290930, member: 115857"]I think it's fairly obvious we have a problem in faction balance, over such a huge average (approx 300,000 players) we should see fairly close averages yet NC are FAR FAR behind.[/quote]


    That's precisely what you get with a faction that attracts whiners, rambos, noobs, loners and losers. They pull down the good players, and this game requires teamwork to succeed. The few simply cannot carry the multitudes of fail that join up the NC ranks.
  8. CDN_Wolvie

    Individual battlefields do vary from much worse to much better, you either accidentally or deliberately glossed over the part where I tried to make it clear these are Averages for the whole game across all the servers, as per the numbers I quoted from FlashTirade that he shared with us in a more easy on the eye format than the original post of the thread.

    On Average, the NC are having a harder time of it across the entire game.

    Every detail you are mentioning has already been accounted for in the average. It does work, even if you don't understand that because averages aren't static, they are all inclusive. Here, I'll recycle an older post of mine that illustrates this:

    The reason [your bits and pieces of examples like uneven numbers, KDRPM, Infantry, MAX, Vehicle and so on influencing the outcomes of battles] is irrelevant is because when you graph everyone's ability to score points and kills together, it kinda looks like this example of a bell curve:

    [IMG]

    His poor score and your high score are just points along the graph, the top of that curve is right about where the average is for EVERYONE.

    Now, if we overlay three bell curves from three factions averages as the peaks it would look sort of like this example:

    [IMG]

    Even if you are the best of the best individual that the NC has to offer, you will never be better than the VS or TR best of the best because their higher average performance lifts them up higher than you with greater frequency and this all due to how well our weapons perform overall, the average already accounts for every possible out come from the worst performance to super awesome that could possibly be used with augments, teamwork, raw pop numbers, you name it.

    I personally think the overall average's difference between the VS and TR are not drastic, so the example of faction averages having their bell curves overlayed probably looks more like this:

    [IMG]
    • Up x 2
  9. Posse

    Well, I don't see any reason for the NC infantry weapons to have a lower skill ceiling or skill peak than the VS/TR ones, the one factor that doesn't involve skill is TTK and all the factions have similar TTKs with their better weapons. I still don't understand what's so hard about the SAW anyway, vertical recoil is easy to manage, the problem is horizontal recoil.

    And I'm pretty sure that significant population you talk about started with a NC character and used VS/TR alts after learning the game, in that situation it's pretty obvious that they'll have a better K/D with them.
  10. Typhoeus


    In that case I think we are both agreeing on most things but the big difference is I think this is being blown out of proportion. I still don't think .1 difference in average kd's is that big of a deal and there's no one thing to point the finger at as to why it is the way it is. The game still and always will require balance tweaks and there will always be gaps in player skill and faction population. Someone is always going to end up in third place. It will never be equal across the board. All SOE can hope for is that whoever is in third, isn't behind by to much. And I think right now, it really isn't that bad.
  11. CDN_Wolvie

    I think it is that bad when I realize what that .1 KDR difference means in a game where we kill each other and end up in the spawn timer perhaps thousands of times an hour across the entire player base. But you're right, its nice you can see where we agree, I definitely agree with the statement I will bold in the quote.

    I think there are 3 things that would go a long way to improved balance:

    1) Reworking the weapon traits of the NC to make sense as both "Hey this makes us special!" and replacing the trend of "Shotgun Faction!" with "RPG Faction!" (or as haters would call it "Noobtube Faction!" because frankly that is what hard hitting is in a FPS: splash damage, high risk of missing = high damage reward, and knock back in FPS and RPG means) and/or "Magnetic Weapon Faction!", as supported by the previously relevant extra fluff roleplaying back story of the NC - so that it makes sense with the core mechanics (for example: lag compensation) of the game.

    2) Better Base Design: Defenders should be given more relevance in this game by having bases that have more than one line of defense to fall back into and push out from on sorties. This has been slowly over the past year seeing some improvement but they are only half measures at best so far, definitely keeping an eye on the test server to see if they get better class and vehicle specific objectives into the bases and ways to dynamically prepare defenses in creative ways so a group of players can "own" a base and present attackers with more variety of expectations, and SCUs + Underground Spawn Rooms with better tunnel systems without elevator exits. Some hope a redesigned resource system will help fix bases too.

    3) Location Based Damage on Vehicles: So vehicles can be stronger but still vulnerable to infantry, not unlike the location based damage that already exists in the game with Engineer Turrets, Flash front + back seat, and Harasser back seat. Now picture that for the main turret, secondary, fuel, shield, tracks/wheels/hover, engine, ammo reserve, secondary visual modes, HUD, pilot, passengers, etc. One would be able to attack and reduce the effectiveness of opposition vehicles without drawing from just one HP pool, so infantry would still be a threat but vehicle play would be more nuanced and have more variance in what could be beastly without being overpowered since a vehicle is a team effort between its components and crew.
    • Up x 2
  12. SirEdwin

    I figure the numbers definitely tell you one thing conclusively, and that is quite simple. VS has the best equipment, followed closely by VS, with NC trailing. the numbers aren't nearly specific enough because of how situational KD can be. And you can't equate it to player skill because you have No idea how many people play multiple factions, or how frequently. Really it just means NC has a gap in its arsenal somewhere that causes them to die around 8.5% more than the other Factions. VS and TR are only being a 2.5% difference. 2.5% difference can be explained away with circumstance. 8.5% difference, there has to be something in regards to the faction causing it.
    • Up x 3
  13. Bape

    You TR/VS must look at all 3 factions and compare them in every category then you will see the balance issue. But it seems you are not familiar of NC so I will explain

    NC MAX
    -Needs extended mags to kill a TR/VS max without kinect.
    -Need 1300 cert to be effective
    -Worse sustain fire
    -Miss one shot on a VS/TR max you can't kill them and you will most likely be dead
    -Aegis shield will most likely get you killed since you can't shoot and your sides and back is exposed.
    -Slug are horrible you need to stand still shoot wait then shoot again I wouldn't call this any benefit at all

    Phoenix
    -295m range limit
    -Bad dps compared to striker or lancer
    -Can not coordinate
    -open target for snipers
    -Phoenix can be shot down
    -Easy to dodge
    -Hard to turn
    -long reload
    -one shot then long reload by the time you reload tank is either gone or repaired

    Ravens
    -295m limit
    -Both are guided you can't shoot and forget which is better
    -only weapon we use to kill infantry in medium range but soon all av will be nerfed against infantry
    -Base at close range

    Jackhammer
    -Yes best shotgun but still a shotgun it not unique like TR MCG or VS lasher
    -You can still get owned by another faction shotgun end of story
    -the range benefit only matter if another player is using a shotgun any other gun jackhammer losses

    C85 modified - :mad:

    Now notice I only put down NC empire specific weapons and abilities why? because this is the reason why NC looses these abominations are the cause of NC downfall. I believe our weapons are not so bad and just needs a little tweak but overall we can compete with TR/VS in close range. Now Notice I said close range? funny right NC suppose to be CQC faction yet we are on par with the other faction in CQC? when we are at a disadvantage in medium-long range fights funny isn't it.

    Now I can go down the list and do Vs then TR but Im sure you guys know you have the best ES in your possession over the NC and if you deny this then you are truly delusional and any more effort in convincing you why NC need to be looked at is futile.
    • Up x 3
  14. MurderBunneh

    Thats funny because your sig says otherwise.
  15. Posse

    Yes, that's the difference between using a weapon I have almost 27k kills with and one I don't even have 1k with, and also the difference between playing in a squad of good players and lone wolfing (where I don't get a single revive)
  16. MurderBunneh

    Whatever you say. 99 br's and you didn't learn a thing?
  17. Posse

    And I still see squads of NC MAXes destroying everything, curious.

    Oh yes, the Phoenix is sooooooooo bad

    http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/35002
    http://stats.dasanfall.com/ps2/item/33002

    Much better KPH and KDR and slightly lower VKPH than the Lancer, yet the Phoenix is bad, nice joke.

    Is this a joke? The jackhammer is borderline OP when we balance how easy it is to use and how effective it is.

    Use the Fury I guess...

    Not sure if troll...
    • Up x 1
  18. MurderBunneh

    No really pro how you have 5.6 K/D on your Matherson alt but only a measly 4 on your NC? Ah thats right you have a built in excuse like you do for everything.

    You know you can hit infantry with a Phoenix no? Doesn't make it better for it's intended purpose does it?

    Are you dense? Or a bad troll?

    Done with you. I think you are just arguing for the fun of it at this point.
    • Up x 2
  19. Gav7x

    The stats speak by themselves. you"re without excuse sony.
    • Up x 3
  20. Posse

    Er, revives maybe? Without revives my K/D on Mattherson would be 4.2, and I'm pretty sure I didn't get that many revives in the NC alt since I was lone wolfing. Besides, my KPM is much better on the NC alt too (1.43 vs 1.18 if you're too lazy to look it up)

    You completely ignored the fact that the VKPH (vehicle KPH, duh) is only slightly lower than the lancer right?

    But whatever, keep believing you suck because your faction is bad, I'm sorry that's not the case.
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