Jump Jets as an Alternative to ZOE

Discussion in 'MAX' started by Quiiliitiila, Dec 4, 2013.

  1. Quiiliitiila

    I guess I'm necroing a previously necroed thread, but I just wanted to point some stuff out.

    I wrote my OP three years ago when these forums were rife with threads about how awful ZOE was and how it was ruining the game, ect. Had you read the thread when I first made it, you wouldn't have needed sources or proof, it was literally everywhere.

    Again, back when this was written the only solutions posed were straight downgrades and the Devs had said they weren't sure what to do. As we can see now, ZOE is (in this writer's opinion at least) useless and of all three ES MAX abilities it's clearly the worst. The nerf that was handed down by the Devs to balance it was waaaay over the top and heavy handed, essentially making it into a suicide button with little to no benefit. At least the other two abilities have uses, even if they require planning (lockdown especially).

    But this is all moot, discussion from a thread made three years ago. :p
  2. BattleDroids

    I recall vanu maxes having jet packs in ps1. Silimar uplift as the drifter for light assault class. Even if it worked well in planetside 1 doesn't mean it will in planetside 2. If a vanu max was gonna use this to get on the upper levels of a building he could not simply enter that building because he would need someone to hack/open the doors leading in to the building. In planetside 2 the buildings are built differently.
  3. WhiteWolf

    I remember popping MAXRun in a base, and as I reached the destination base, I'd jump jet over the walls and either land behind the defenders watching the gates :B
    Always disengaged MAXRun at the perfect distance so weapons would come online as I landed. I miss MAXRun. And my jumpjets.
    • Up x 1
  4. Tattoon

    JJ MAX wouldnt break the game. Didnt break PS1, Wont break PS2. There are so many ways to remove people from strategic positions. VS MAX needs a niché and JJ would be good thing to replace the most nerfed thing in the games history (ZoE). Dunno why so many are anti-JJ MAX. Did you even play PS1? Dont say nay until you've acctaully experianced it.
    • Up x 3
  5. Tattoon

    Couldnt edit but forgot to say that, VS MAX in PS1 were lot more effective AA in PS1. The aircrafts in PS2 are too stronk and and the only good way to remove them is by air. Or if they are foolish enough to fly into fullclip of burster. PS1 MAX had a very effective and fun lock-on projectiles. Which was lot more effective removing air. But noone complained then. Here in PS2 the fanbois and metawarriors whine so much that no change happens. Hense the game is where it is atm. Ppl dont like changes that makes them have to adapt to new playstyles. If they cant farm less skillful players that dont spend 1000000 hours in air for example. A skilled pilot kills a skilled MAX very easely, which isnt fair when the MAX cost 100 more. And yes, you can res a MAX. But MAX cant escape like a aircraft can. And you dont exactly have a pocket medic or someone nearby to toss you a res either.

    Noy sure how i got into that.... But i was just making a long example. And JJ MAX wont make the game less enjoyable for either the airfarmers or tankers, or infantry.
  6. LordKrelas

    PS1 didn't care about height differences, and had Doors everywhere.
    Ps2 has no Doors, Max units are powerful.
    And VS doesn't need to be the only side that can have MAX units get onto Roofs, jet away from C-4, and avoid entire stairways with Jets without any need for help doing it: IE Galaxies.

    VS would have AI Maxes, AV Maxes, and LA's on Roof tops without any planning.
    While NC & TR could only have LA's.
    NC & TR's Maxes would be through doorways & stairways, and be vulnerable to C-4.
    VS could jet through balconies , over roofs, and jet away from C-4 - Elevation is a Defense.

    One side having an incredible mobility advantage, when height is an advantage in of itself, is murderous.

    And in PS2, no one has effective AA.
    If VS's Jump jets would make them have effective AA, VS again would have another advantage due to Jump Jets.

    Aircraft are BS, when it gets to Liberators.
    However, a MAX able to get everywhere but only for one side is Hellish.

    It'd be hell for NC & TR to handle.
    And hellish easy for VS to handle other enemy Maxes - Hell, VS maxes could entirely avoid chokepoints & NC\TR Maxes.
    Or do you not understand what Jump jets provide to Light Assaults?
  7. Tattoon

    Cant avoid at all time going indoor and be in chokepoints where NC and TR MAXes CRUSH VS MAX.

    Air is not ******** at all. unless you sit in one and farming away on infantry trying to capture a base. And that is made only with a 350 investment.

    Obviously the JJ wouldnt be like a maxed out JJ as for LA. It would be slow and wouldnt boost you as high. 2 rockets in face ur still dead. Like i said, Dont say nay before we tried it out. Atleast its an idea that could work and be balanced with boost adjustments. VS > Mobility, TR > Raw damage, NC > Survivability. So it would fit perfectly as a niché for VS as in PS1. Sure PS1 had door. But you wouldnt be able to Jump as high as you could in PS1.
  8. LordKrelas

    NC's require RNG to be in their favor with shotguns, and an incredibly close-range.
    TR is nearly in line with VS's.
    As well, being able to avoid infantry, use LA mobility as a heavily armored combat suit, and only for one-side is ******* insane.

    You ever face a Liberator?
    Try facing one without a Legion, you'll die regardless unless the pilot is ****.
    As you need numerous lightning tanks, which all need skyguard, and the total cost in nanites exceeds the liberator.
    And you'll lose tanks to the singular Liberator, which can do this Solo. 1 Man.

    Being the sole Max capable of reaching any balcony, Cliffside, entering towers from the exterior, getting onto roof tops alone is still bringing Max suit power past any practical Tank-mine defense or similar.
    While NC & TR only have the same paths to go, VS can avoid nearly all such identifiable paths.

    I do not want to see a Max flying up a tower, to see if it is insane.
    NC Survivability? Not in max units.
    The shield is directional, doesn't block Archer rounds, prevents firing, and the Max is the same speed.
    Add in the weapons for AI, which is RNG shotguns requiring close-range, and the Max is required to be inside the range of all Anti-max weapons.
    For AV, LOS to every enemy target, with slow reloads.
    Did I mention the AI weapons, have the smallest clips, longest reloads, and need RNGesus?

    A jumping Max, can avoid C-4.
    A jumping Max can scale what NC & TR can not.
    A jumping Max can reach places inside & outside, only LA's can.
    Unless it barely functions at all. Which defeats the point.

    You do not need a flying max unit.
  9. asmodraxus

    VS still don't have a useful faction ability on their max units, and no a suicide button doesn't count.

    NC shield, vaguely useful
    TR lockdown, in theory useful (in a position where you cannot be easily flanked and have support and cannot be shelled such as a point defense), in practice not so much
    VS completely useless, with no upsides (the run is still slower then a running infantry and the damage increase is one less bullet on a weapon system that can utilize 2 guns to kill within x meters otherwise its a damage nerf) for 20% less health
  10. LordKrelas

    And VS still doesn't need the most tactical ability, to put Maxes solo in places where only VS & LA's can reach.

    If the VS max could once again outrun or match running infantry, it can't be escaped or caught.
    The ability was overnerfed, but dear lord was it brutal.
  11. Icehole1999

    It looks to me like the NC MAX is in the best spot as far as ability slots go. The shield actually works. Lockdown on the TR MAX speeds up the fire rate but doesn't do much else. I've never seen ZOE used in nearly 2 years on PS4.

    My personal thought is scrap Lockdown and ZOE and give an "overdrive" to the TR MAX but to its weapons only, while still being able to move about. And the VS MAX gets some sort of limited distance teleport ability since they're all advanced alien tech and all.
    • Up x 1
  12. LordKrelas

    And the downside to the overdrive?
    Teleportation... how to dodge the everything... downside to that is?

    Shield blocks ability to fire, requires a reload to be triggered before used, or you can't reload, is directional.
    Where's the downsides to a damage buff, and a teleport?
  13. Icehole1999

    There are no downsides. The increased weapon fire rate would last longer and cool down faster with every level upgraded. The teleport would have further range and a faster cool down much the same.

    This being there is no down side to the shield, which is on the MAX that is already the best in CQC.
  14. LordKrelas

    So TR gets a damage boost at will.
    VS can teleport at will.
    NC can remove their ability to fire, ability to reload, for a directional shield.

    NC's blocks the firing of weapons, and unless triggered prior to use, even the reload, for the directional shield.
    If TR and VS get these abilities, they gain a boost to firepower, and tactical capability...
    With no requirement, no loss of offensive power, and no directional-only capability.

    Are you stupid? No downsides?
    Hell, you just called the RNG shotgun the best in CQC, as if it wasn't RNG dependent, and needing to be in CQC to hit reliably..
  15. asmodraxus

    TR Overdrive = boosts fire rate but the downside is heat build up with a very slow dissipation, when full the max shuts down for x seconds
    VS (well mobility has been tried and NC get the defense and TR fire rate, guess that leaves a serious damage increase) ZoE increase the damage per shot by upto 100% for x seconds but at the cost of speed and damage taken.
  16. LordKrelas

    So TR, gets a DPS boost, that lasts as long as they can manage to work it without overheat.
    VS gets a straight Damage boost - at the cost of being more fragile, and slower.
    And NC gets the Shield, that is directional, blocks firing, and reloading.

    Two have pure offensive capabilities to kill the opponent faster.
    One has an offensive ability, that risks complete shutdown.
    One has an offensive ability, that reduces endurance & agility.

    One has the defensive ability that strips all offense, and is directional.

    With these abilities, can the damn Shield be upgraded to match?
    As even these, has the NC shove all defense for a one-sided barrier.
    While both other Maxes amplify their killing power, allowing them to win more quickly saving themselves damage..
    And function in every direction - They certainly don't strip their entire defense for offense, like NC's shield does in reverse.

    Or is the directional shield considered equal to dealing more damage faster, and dealing more damage?
    As I'd like to see the Shield win a fight compared to the other abilities in those states.
    They'd reload before the NC max would be able to even shoot.
    While their abilities allow them to slam it down faster, reducing time exposed to enemy fire.
    NC's does not help the source, it just reduces the damage taken assuming the max can retreat away.. Or it's basically screwed.
    Given it can't win the fight, with the shield, it will go on, till the enemy murders them if they can't retreat.
  17. asmodraxus

    Or you make the shield give 360 coverage at the last rank or what downside would you like the NC shield to have, can't strip away health as that's what it gives so its either mobility (see TR's lockdown) or DPS?

    The three things are DPS, Mobility and armor.
    • Up x 1
  18. LordKrelas

    I have no problem with that.
    Given if NC is stuck on the defensive, least make it full.
    As TR & VS, in your suggestion do not have a limited fire-arc where the effects only work, nor are pinned down:
    They have full mobility, and firepower.
    NC has one-directional barrier, and no firepower.
  19. Daigons

    Until they come up with a better solution, they should remove the current abilities from all three faction and perhaps replace it with a Squad Beacon dropper.
  20. CaptCran

    After this you'll want C-4 right???

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