Jump Jets as an Alternative to ZOE

Discussion in 'MAX' started by Quiiliitiila, Dec 4, 2013.

  1. Ronin Oni

    ZOE is already getting cooldown

    And having it's movement benefit nerfed in some manner, though scale and what exactly (strafe? sprint speed?) is entirely unknown.

    And the damage buff is pretty laughable all things told. Lots of ZOE users just use rank 1 and ignore the dmg buff. It's worth it if you always MAX it, but if not, far better places to spend certs than so many for such small benefit
  2. Anghammarad

    Wait for people to get so exasperated with the ZOE ability, so that they accept anything instead (Jump-Jets/Cloaking).

    Just as planned.

    Seriously, this. Luperza knows what she's talking about.
    • Up x 1
  3. Quiiliitiila

    Sorry for the delay, I was in school all day yesterday.

    First off, I find it difficult to compare PS1 MAX JJs with what they would be in PS2. First of all, it PS1 MAX units had cooler weapons that could do a lot more stuff and they were immune to small arms fire. Overall, PS1 MAX units were much more fleshed out and had versatile weapons that posed a significant risk to both armor and infantry. Our MAX units would not be immune to small arms, meaning shooting a flying MAX unit would be low risk, high reward.

    Our weapons in PS2 are very close range and very specific. Also, if we were to fire while flying, just as with LA our CoF would be greatly increased. Flying and shelling with comets would be almost impossible and AI work while flying would be much the same.

    Also, yes, burster MAX units on a roof would be annoying. However, for the most part the areas where burster MAX units generally set up are not accessible by tanks shells and LA in the first place.

    Anywhere a JJ MAX could get an LA with C-4 could reach, as the JJs would be less powerful than an LAs.
  4. FieldMarshall

    Only problem i see with JJs on MAXs is that in PS2 they can regen health, and thus can farm LAs all day in Biolab roofs with no fear of anything but C4.
    Plus, peaking over the roof edge to kill stragglers.

    I imagine 3-4 VS MAXs in an uncontested Biolab somewhere could farm 10-15+ randoms for as long as they wanted, until someone organised a LA rush on them or something.

    Still preferable over ZOE though.

  5. DxAdder

    I really don't see how JJ would be OP.

    They wouldn't be as good as LA's JJ and would sacrifice (in most cases) the ability to be repaired/healed /rezed since
    Eng/Medics wouldn't be able to reach them.

    Not to mention how exposed this leaves them in the first place, MAX's are at there best when there supported.
  6. Quiiliitiila

    Yes, in a Biolab the JJs will become quite a boon, however, biolabs are not captured from the rooves. As much of a hassle MAX units will be on rooves, they will not be as MUCH as an impact on the fight as ZOE MAX units rushing a point.

    Strategic positioning is really what these JJs will be all about, they will allow VS MAX units to outflank and hopefully outmaneuver the enemy. However, if done correctly the MAX JJs would not be powerful enough to outmaneuver a clever LAs and not be able to reach the highest positions where LAs usually frolic.

    And in PS1 MAX units were immune to small arms fire, unless AP rounds were loaded into said small arms.
  7. FieldMarshall

    I agree sort of. To me VS MAXs just feel "wierd" without JJs.
    The capacity was quite small, but enough to not be UP imo.

    Last time i checked i was able to kill MAXs with white ammo just fine, unless they recently changed it.
    Log into VR and see for yourself.
  8. Quiiliitiila

    Ah, I may be mistaken, from what people had told me about Planetside 1, all of the MAX units were immune to normal small arms unless AP bullets were used. Sorry for the confusion!
  9. FieldMarshall

    No prob. AP ammo did give a huge boost to MAX killing potential though. Not sure about numbers but it feels like atleast 30% extra damage versus MAXs (and 30% less against infantry)
    And even made it possible to reliably damage hovering aircraft and smaller vehicles at close range with the MCG or Jackhammer.
  10. MajiinBuu

    I'd much rather have Drifter Jets on my max.
    That way on the ground I can still have my little speed boost.
    But I could also float above a battlefield and rain deathballs on everyone!
  11. Nymmaron

    Do you guys even know what you're talking about? JJs are LA's trait and LA's only. Give them a faction trait like the lockdown on the prowlers and TR MAXes or the shields on the vanguards and NC MAXes. Don't give them a class trait. It's just stupid. We all want more content and at the same time we're limiting that content. Let's think of something that can be used on both VS MBTs and MAXes as it is on the other factions. I'm fine with ZOE as long as it doesn't outrun an infantry. Also you all say that the MAXes won't get any support on roofs, well you're right, but neither LAs do. I'm also assuming it would be damn hard to try C4 a flying MAX. Not to mention that this MAX will probably have other friendly LAs or MAXes around. So what I'm saying is nerf the movement speed on the ZOE, don't nerf it into oblivion and give the magriders a ZOE of their own, a BALANCED one ( if possible ). Leave the jump jets to the LAs.

    I apologize if I have offended somebody. :)
    • Up x 1
  12. iccle

    Much as I liked the idea of this in PS1, I dont think it would sit very well in PS2 mainly because in PS1 rocket launchers were more effective versus VS max whilst airborne (strikers would lock on, and phoenix was more maneuverable).
    All MAX units have changed significantly since then, in PS1 they were much much less maneuverable in general and slower when not in run mode, I think that giving them jump jets would just tip the balance a little to far and infantry in particular would have a very hard time dealing with them.
  13. Scudmungus

    Increased movement along two axis causes tears.

    Increased movement / speed along three axis?

    From Super Heavy to Super 'Light' Assault!

    Mon, folks will cry. I would probably join them.

    • Up x 1
  14. Crackulous

    How about deleting MAX abilities and harassers from the game? Taking a step back allows one to see two steps forward.
  15. Collin

    OK lets compaire PS1 and PS2 in regard of JJ for maxes

    PS1: JJ in PS1 were kind of the best ability for maxes but it had drawbacks. First PS1 had doors! For example you were sitting inside a tower you would not open a door when you know there is a max behind it. the doors could only be opened by an infatry with a REK.

    The TTK in PS1 was much higher so you had a good chance to put a deci into the enemy max unit before he kills you.

    The Map was way more flat then PS2 and the open field was dominated by Reavers and Tanks. So a single flying max would die very fast.

    PS2: JJ in PS2 would be somehow GODMODE. See how much pain it gives an attacking force when a SINGLE max is on the roofs. Now think about more then 5 because why would a max would stay on the ground when he can spam everything from the rooftops. Same goes for towers. flying maxes jumping from level to level. without any fear. Flying maxes in trees and on rocks where no tankshell can reach them.

    To make it VERY VERY CLEAR and trust me here i played Planetside for 10 years now.

    • Up x 1
  16. Quiiliitiila

    Honestly deleting all three abilities and then starting from scratch would be the best course of action. Though, I'm not sure why we try or even discuss things on these forums… It's not like the Devs ever listen anyway, even if they did, they'd just ignore us and do whatever the hell they want anyway. Case and point ZOE. We said that ZOE wasn't what we wanted and that it may not have been a god idea, we made countless threads and suggestions both here on the MAX forums and the massive failure that is the roadmap. Did they listen? Nope. Did they critique or ask questions? Nope.

    SOE will do what they want, I'm not sure why we even try anymore.
  17. The Walrus Whisperer

    I think it'd be a great cross faction ability.
  18. Helaton

    Each has trade offs and balances for the special ability.

    TR: Higher ROF, No Movement (always available) - Firepower

    NC: Supreme Defense (love the riot shield), can't attack (always available) - Defense

    VS: Higher DPS & Movement Speed, Higher damage taken (Cooldown) - Max Crash??

    This tells me that maybe VS just needs a skill that is utility, but not on a cooldown based like the other two empires.

    Some ideas (any values are tentative, its just the game mechanic):
    Muzzle Velocity: when active, dramatically increases muzzle velocity but lowers rate of fire. (could be cool as can change the range of engagement of weapons.)

    Indirect damage: converts 5%+5% per point of weapon damage into extra splash damage within 0+.20m splash radius (if it doesn't have an initial splash damage value - Weapons with splash just get extra damage with no splash range modification). Each shot uses 1 additional ammo per rank. (at rank 5, a blue shift would use 5 ammo per shot for 1m splash and 30% indirect damage.) Not something you'd want to have on in a friendly crowded room.

    Area Denial: generates a pain field around the Max against hostiles similar if you go near an enemy spawn. (i.e. 1+0.75m per point for max of 4m) Affects the max too, but doesn't affect friendlies. Can't be repaired while active.
  19. Luminari

    Source? I hope you back up the veracity of this claim or else you lose a lot of credibility for the rest of your post.

    Assumptions. It's not smart to start your post with two non-arguments one after another and still expect people to find what you say persuasive.

    The tactical part I disagree with here is "what is the MAX doing up on that roof?" They're meant to punch into buildings and/or provide a solid defensive block. What good does it do if they fly up on the roof of a building? Shoot down at enemy's heads? An LA with a (much more accurate) carbine can do that. Quickly traverse terrain? Its better to bring the MAX there with a sunderer or galaxy in the first place. Which brings me to the following a point, a MAX can be dropped on a roof by a Galaxy as well and their nature as shock weapons does not make them suited to stay there for a prolonged stay on a roof.
  20. kr47er

    here are my thoughts about max abilities:

    They should emulate the three main infantry classes but on bigger scale.
    Since jump jets and cloak are on the table that'll save us some time...

    TR -> HA
    NC -> LA
    VS -> INF

    I know it's drastic, but the way I see, shields should be TR specific ( and work like the HA ones, allowing you to fire while shielded )
    NC should get jetpacks, combining with the shotguns. Giving JJ to the NC changes the angle of the ability due to the reduced range of the NC. ( maybe remove slugs ( maybe not )).
    VS should get cloak and XxX_MLG_RailgunPewPewSniper_420_XxX

    P.D.: Buff the pew pew knife !!

    ( edit: actually gonna make a post about this )

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