[Suggestion] Its time to make SMG's & common pool shotguns Class Specific.

I do use them & have in the past.

This has never been a troll thread or a "buff NC" thread.

This isn't a troll thread.

I object and stuff.

Proceed lol.

So basically no real change then.
I also have no idea why you didnt include the Baron. Its often the superior shotgun choice anyway.

Why would anyone but Infil LA and maybe Engineers use SMGs?
Why would you use shotguns on anything but LA and Engineer?

I dont see the point of this except forcing HAs out ot shotguns. And it doesent do that either because they have Baron.
And the shield doesent help shotgun users as much as people think. Seriously.

This mostly boils down to removing SMG/shotgun from HA.

A valid balance suggestion only if you're willing to include the Jackhammer. Otherwise it's ridiculous.

However it could be argued that HA is intended for point pushing/CQC, and this change would encourage using the class as a KD padding close-mid range ADS auto-win class even more.

I don't even know why medic was brought into it.

Sorry to burst your bubble Einstein Jr. But the HA is the 1 class you do not take those away from even if you forward this type of BS on forum. To put it simply. It is the class suited for CQB -> Needs weapons to back that up.

What do you think concusion grenades work best with? Shotguns.

SMG on heavy? You mostly see NC doing that because they have no real dedicated CQB LMG anchor is still Close-Mid. And because Cyclone is awsome.

This thread involves your personal opinion of how the game should be and you probably got killed by a shotgun heavy/SMG heavy on your way here. My solution for you is go develop your own game make a class called HA and make it so that it has to fist fight while other classes have mech suits and such. Good day

I've read this entire thread and it was headache inducing.

What kind of harebrained debate style is it to make a one-line demand or statement and then insist over and over again that other people try to think up arguments in favor of the opening statement when they ask why? Use your brains indeed.

I guess one way to prevent counter-arguments is to present no argument.

I'm going to assume that some people would actually be willing to have a discourse here, but since the original poster is only willing to commit to a vague appeal to diversity, this thread is basically useless.

But hey, since I'm here already, may as well put forth my opinions.

Actual discourse starts here:

Let's first establish some baseline facts: Dedicated CQC carbines and ARs tend to do high damage (best examples TRV and GD-7F/Serpent) but have some issues with their quality of life stats. Especially the 845rpm carbines have small mags and spend more time reloading than shooting. Some of them are also expensive, limiting availability. CQC LMGs do lower damage but the HA is tougher. NC's best close range HA weapons both cost 1000 certs a piece. Relevant for F2P players. Medic CQC guns tend to be affordable on all factions.

SMGs tend to do less damage than dedicated CQC carbines (first-gen SMGs being the most damaging SMGs, NS ones the least damaging) and generally have shorter effective ranges than even carbines (NS-7 aside for the moment). SMGs are also expensive. On the upside, they offer the following quality of life benefits: 0.75x ADS speed (not universal among CQC AR/Carbines/LMGS), fast reloads or large magazines, superior hipfire stats. Solid economy. A F2P player blowing 1000 certs on an SMG gets a gun that they can use on 5 classes. Great value. SMG purchase also opens up a different playstyle for Infiltrators.

Shotguns vary in cost from free to 1000 certs. They do damage very quickly but have terrible range and some of them carry comparatively little ammo. They are perhaps the most one-dimensional of short range guns, but you do get a free one for 4 out of 5 classes.

Would restricting SMGs and shotguns to certain classes have a game balance benefit? For most classes, pretty doubtful. Medics can cheaply get competent close combat weaponry, since every faction has a bullet-hose AR that costs only 250 certs.

Many good close range carbines are expensive, but then, the OP's demand does grant carbine classes the use of cheaply available shotguns.

The biggest effect would likely be on Heavy Assaults. Currently, the most damaging LMGs are 750rpm/143dmg, and these are either free or cost a mere 100 certs. NC's best close range HA weapons both cost 1000 certs.

So this means that the barrier of entry for GAINING a competent short range weapon will be much higher for NC HA players (and keep in mind the Anchor isn't as damaging as the MSW-R at ten times the cost). On the other hand, the NC does have an empire-specific Heavy Weapon that functions in many ways similarly to one of the previously discussed weapon classes (complying with original poster's request not to call it a shotgun), with functionally similar effects on targets.

So once the NC HA pays its higher entry fee into the world of close combat, suddenly they have an option in CQC that other HAs cannot match, only approximate. Other empire specific Heavy Weapons are effective in their own right and roles, but do not approximate the function of shotguns. While I won't venture to guess that this will have very strong repercussions on global balance, I still feel there are some factors that need to be taken into account.

-Fuzzy or 'intangible' negatives

Say you go back and implement the changes demanded by the original poster. Perhaps not seeing medics use shotguns allows you to reach heretofore unexplored heights of pseudo-sexual ecstasy. Good for you!

But consider the plight of the F2P players, especially recent recruits with lower BR. Perhaps they are glad that they can, if the situation is dire, switch their medic or HA to a shotgun, instead of spending certs on class-specific guns when they would rather buy rez grenades or max out their medical tool? Well, they can't now. The starter guns are versatile but you've just removed options from a new player, and Planetside 2's starting experience is frustrating enough.

Or consider the player who dabbles in many classes and hasn't really been willing to focus on a single one exclusively. Perhaps they have chosen to get an SMG of some type because it expands their gameplay options, and is a fairly efficient use of 1000 certs? Well, it is not as efficient now, and you'll have players on your hand who feel like you just devalued the certs of SC they spent on their SMG. Again, primary disadvantage goes to players who do not earn certs as quickly as others.

SMGs and especially shotguns are extremely one-dimensional guns with different, yet pronounced downsides in their damage potential when compared to class-specific guns. SMGs simply aren't all that damaging compared to a TRV or even GR-22, shotguns have awful range, but these guns appeal with their cost-effectiveness (among other things). By restricting them further, I feel like you're doing very little for game balance, but make the close combat role less accessible to people who perhaps did not want to spend 1000 certs on an Anchor, or even 250 on a H-V45 (Special mention here for VS medic with the least damaging of starting ARs with the least damage per mag).

Now, it seems like the proposed change would annoy or even upset a lot of people, while offering gameplay benefits I don't see as being particularly notable or advantageous (I don't consider it an advantage to over-all balance in this scenario that the NC doesn't have a cheap 750/143 LMG but can pay 1000 certs to buy a weapon that functions very similarly to a class of weapon that other HAs are forbidden from using. At least right now if some NC is upset about not having an MSW-R or Orion they can try using a cost-effective SMG or cheap shotgun instead of buying an Anchor or Jackhammer for 1000 certs).

I would very much look forward to a proponent of the change detailing the positive changes they think would result, but I am afraid I probably just haven't used my brain enough, as Scr1n has so frequently admonished us all

It is not the diversity of classes that matters, but the diversity of play: how those classes are played, that matters. This is why you are in a very tiny minority. The classes in PlanetSide were never intended to be hard definitions. That's what makes PlanetSide a unique game. If you played PlanetSide 1 you would understand this.

You made a comment earlier in this thread about how BattleField and Call of Duty gets it "right." Then go play those games. This is a combined arms game, and that means... combined arms. The way the players play is the only thing that matters, and enabling them to do more things--without becoming overpowered--is the focus of this game.

I explained to you in another thread how important it is for there to be weapons that move across the factions and the classes. You have mistakenly implied that most of the weapons in this game are class specific, and you are actually very wrong about that.

The only class specific weapons are: LMGs (lumping "heavy" weapons in here also), sniper and scout rifles, rocket launchers, and assault rifles. That's it. Carbines, all secondary weapons, battle rifles, and SMGs, and shotguns and knives are all cross-class. Cross-class being defined as a weapon able to be used by more than one class.

Making more weapons available to more classes encourages diversity of play.

MAX weapons excepted.

Someones mad.

You are really so desperate to keep the status quo.

Also, you seemly forget CQC AR,Carbine & LMG variants exist, effectively making SMG & common class pool shotgun access redundant.

The Baron is included.

Its a Common Class Pool Shotgun aswell.

Also..... Why was this thread even bumped in the first place? Who dug this up?

And you used the magic word: REDUNDANCY!

The entire purpose of common pool and cross class weapons is redundancy. We want players to have options that do often include redundant options. The goal is freedom of choice, not arbitrary specialization.

Yes, I am very much in favor of this type of status quo, because it is a good one. Change for the sake of itself isn't a virtue.

I think your missing something here, what about all the people that spent SC or certs for SMG's and Shotgun's SPECIFICALLY for there HA ?

No one would get a refund or any sort of compensation i.e you would just piss off and drive MORE customers away.

It's not going to happen not now not ever.

Any attempt at game balance should encourage player retention not drive them away.

I'm pretty sure it was bumped to show you've been cross-posting. Your last post is barely a month old and you started a new thread.

"Cross posting?"

The threads are actually completely different in meaning & purpose.

Why would you need to give them compensation? Nothing is being change interms of how the weapons function.

If people are really going to be driven away because they cannot use a common class pool shotgun or SMG on there HA, what does it say about those people?

You sir are being insincere.

How is it good?

And whos the "we"?


Also if the Goal was "freedom of choice" all classes would be able to use all weapons & certain gun attachments wouldn't be limited per weapon like the way they are.