"It's just a game" .... "we play for fun" ... "just play for fun" ...

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by NotziMad, Sep 6, 2020.

  1. NotziMad

    How about this.

    I play football (soccer), and I play it for fun.

    As you know, football is about scoring goals; scoring more goals than the opposing team, preventing the opposing team from scoring goals, that's what you're supposed to do.

    Right? Everyone knows that.

    So I play this GAME, football, and I play it JUST FOR FUN, that's what games are for right? I mean do you know many people who play games NOT for fun?

    Anyway, when I play football JUST FOR FUN, and though it is JUST A GAME, when I play, I try to score goals. Logical right? I mean, if it's not me scoring goals, if I'm not an attacker, I do what I can to help my team score goals and to prevent the opposing team from scoring goals.

    Everyone agrees yes? No one will ever play football, ever, and try to NOT score goals? Try to HELP the opposing team to score?

    Or better yet, score against your own goal?

    Yes or no?

    Yes! Of course yes! Of ******* course ******* yes.

    So what do you do if you're the only one on your team trying to score goals? What do you do if most of your team is actually (and on purpose) scoring goals against their own team? Scoring own goals? And laughing about it?

    In fact, why do so many people playing planetside 2 NOT try to score goals? Why do entire ******* zergs score AGAINST their own team?

    Tell me why something that applies in football, in tennis, in basketball, in snap, in monopoly, in poker, in racing whether it's cars or anything else, in board games like Risk, in computer strategy games like Total War, in checkers or chess, tell me why these things apply in all these games, tell me why EVERYONE AGREES that when you play football, you try to score goals, tell me why NO ONE EVER questions this, EVER?

    Tell me why it applies in ALL THESE GAMES and MANY MORE, in every ******* sport or GAME you can think of that you and everyone else plays FOR FUN but for some mysterious reason, for some unknown ******* exception to the rule, this does not apply in PS2?


    [IMG]
  2. Johannes Kaiser

    I can only assume it's because the "board" is larger and you have multiple fights to choose from instead of being limited to one.
    I personally can not quite understand this "winning an alert is boring" mentality either. Winning is fun, especially if you did so on fair terms and through hard work. It's a real payoff for giving one's best for 90 minutes. Okay, granted, since they will take away alert rewards the satisfaction will likely become the ONLY reward there...meh.
    • Up x 1
  3. DarkStarAnubis

    True but it does not apply to PS2 because:

    1) There are no teams. Just a bunch of players from different locations who do not know each other (a squad made of permanent, loyal, dedicated, committed players is a team. But not everybody plays in a squad).

    2) There is no common goal. Each player makes his/her own. Kill, build, drive vehicles, ...

    It is clear your goal is winning alerts, which is fine, but you keep asking "My goal is clear. Why isn't my goal the same of everybody else?".

    The answer is simple. "Why everybody else should have your goal? Isn't someone else's goal (e.g. get the Betelgeuse) as good and valid as yours?"
    • Up x 2
  4. Liewec123

    Are you asking why do we ignore alerts and spend time in big endless fights like TI Alloys and biolabs?

    Because that is what I think you're referring to, so i'll address that XD

    So you're playing football, the coach is telling you to play in small controlled groups,
    So you're there in your little boring group waiting for something interesting to finally happen,
    And in the distance you see a huge group of people, they aren't playing properly,
    It looks more like an epic game of keepy-ups! But they're clearly having an amazing time,
    Well you now have a choice, you can stay doing the boring thing that coach told you to do,
    You will get a smiley-face sticker if you win! Or you can say "screw the smiley-face sticker! It's not worth my time!"
    And then go join the others in the epic fun game of keepy-ups!

    On my game night I can choose to stand around on points with nothing happening while they slowly cap,
    All for the chance of getting a meaningless "prize" after several hours of boring effort.
    Or I can go to the big pointless grinder fight and have a blast!
    Easy choice!
    • Up x 4
  5. Johannes Kaiser

    Or you can pick meaningful fights, contribute there and help win the alert while having a great time. True story and my pick.
    Useful for the alert doesn't automatically equal boring.
    • Up x 2
  6. Demigan

    The goal of a game =/= the fun of the game.

    Football is simple, it has little goals to complete and all players are of one mind about what game they are playing. But imagine if all the players realized that it would be more fun to be holding a contest of who can do the best tricks with a ball. Now all players are not trying to score goals, but are holding a tricks contest in the middle of the field.
    But it gets more complicated, because not all players are going to be doing the same thing. The keepers are different players, and they might be wanting to play a different game altogether. As could the defenders, attackers, middle field players or even divisions between them.

    Lets take a good example from a current game: Minecraft. The goal of the game is to go to some kind of alternative world and defeat some kind of boss. But players have found a million-and-one goals to complete themselves. For some players its survival game where they try to last the night in dangerous territories. Others use the game as a creativity game, where they can build anything from cities, monuments, entire logical machines like calculators, to just a hodgepodge home. Others again just spend their days exploring tunnels, caves and landscapes for the hell of it, while others still hunt down the scraps of lore scattered around the game. Many players even switch between what they want on a day-to-day, minute-to-minute basis.

    PS2's has a problem with its main goal. The main goal is to capture the continent, but the purpose of the main goal is to make sure players seek each other out and have battles, which is the core gameplay loop that entertains people. Unfortunately the main goal of the game is best achieved by avoiding the main gameplay loop. Even when you go off the beaten path and use things like construction the main goal of the game is simply not set up to facilitate it. Construction isnt fast enough, not flexible enough and not useful enough to be used for the main goal of the game.

    This creates divisions. Some players want to play the main game no matter what. And that is fine. However they will also ask the rest of the players to be dragged away from the core gameplay loops that they enjoy, the same gameplay loops that is the purpose of the game.

    In a way you are actually the one that is playing the game wrong. You go against the very thing the game was build for by pursuing the faulty main objective. Imagine if the goal of football encouraged the players to avoid the ball at all costs and try to get free kicks through theatrics rather than score while the game is on the way. That is basically what you are promoting here.

    Now please go away with your trash, or try to fix the actual problem of the main goal of the game sucking so much arze it's covered in crap.
    • Up x 2
  7. NotziMad



    1. VS / TR / NC

    2. AMERISH / HOSSIN / ESAMIR / INDAR has been locke down by the VANU SOVEREIGNTY

    Maybe Zlatan Ibrahimovic 's goal was to score 200 goals for the PSG, maybe he failed (cause he only scored 156), maybe his goal was to be the best goal scorer the PSG has ever seen in one season (and he succeeded), maybe he wanted to be in the history books for scoring the most goals in one match (and he did) or maybe he wanted to be remembered for scoring the most goals from a free kick in the PSG (and he did, 11 goals).

    Maybe you could say that in terms of directives and KD, translated to football, he's maxed out.

    How is that incompatible with fighting for the team you are in and participating in making your team win?

    Do you think this millionaire would get payed very much for very long if he played AGAINST HIS OWN TEAM in order to reach his personal goals?

    [IMG]
    • Up x 1
  8. NotziMad



    ok, but what you're saying here is :

    "football is boring, so I leave the field".

    So I ask you, what game is it you're now playing that is more fun?
  9. NotziMad

    That's also an agrument I'll never understand.

    Whatever the game, not just PS2, any online game.

    For so many players, the grind is an end in itself.




    "Why do you do what you do?" I ask.

    "the farm" they say

    "farm what?" I ask

    "certs, so I can buy gear, directives, so I can get Beltegeuse" they reply.


    "And what will you do once you have the certs for your gear, once you have the Beltegeuse?"

    "Grind my KD" they say.


    And the thing is, that one; KD and kills and stats, that one NEVER ends.

    So essentially, they play to grind. For ever and ever and ever.


    I'm an old school MMO player, started with DotA back in 2005/2006 in WC3, even then when it was only a mod made by a player / players, I / we played competitively.

    Part of being good at DotA at the time (I haven't played in a long time and the game has changed a lot over the years), was to micro farm the mobs, get that last hit on each mob to get the coin.

    BUT IT WAS A MEANS TO AN END.


    And when I played Age of Conan a few years later, Age of Wushu / Wulin, Life is Feudal, Arche Age, Darkfall, ESO, Star Wars The Old Republic, Tera, or ANY OTHER MMO I played, particularly, what was maybe the most grindy MMO of them all : Black Desert Online, this NEVER CHANGED.


    Whatever the game, even if we play just for fun, we also play to win, we don't play football to NOT SCORE, and whatever the MMO, and whatever the grind, grinding IS NOT FUN, grinding is like A JOB, and we do it, everyone does it, in all games as a MEANS to be competitive in PvP, in sieges and so on.

    NEVER, over the years, in all teh games I played, NEVER have I played a game where MOST players did NOT try to win and where MOST player's idea of fun was simply to grind and grind and grind for no other reason than to grind some more.

    What makes PS2 so special? Why is PS2 so unique in this (bad) way?
  10. csvfr

    Well yeah there is a divide between winning statwise and winning the meta. Trying to win the meta carries a certain amount of risk for very little reward. It takes what, 2 minutes to drive a sunderer from one base to the next and if an assault fails then this process must be repeated with increasingly aware enemies. This is bad for SPM. Defenders will need to hunt down and destroy the sunderer, which often means ignoring and out-manouverering the incoming opposition as an LA. This is not great for KDR either.
  11. NotziMad



    75% of what I do is bad for my stats, and is not fun, but it's usefull.

    Pulling a sunderer and driving that slow weak, cumbersome, loud vulnerable truck, deploying it, defending it, repairing it, is NOT fun.

    Fighting tanks on foot with my LA or Heavy to defend the sundy is NOT fun, is VERY BAD for my stats

    But that's the thing, I do it gladly, because I do it for a reason and it's that reason that is rewarding.


    On the other hand, 75% of what players do that is good for their stats and is fun. Sit in a tree with your infiltrator for 2 hours, just sitting there sniping. Driving to the top of a nearby hill with your lightning and nuking the base, for 1 hour, pulling an ESF to get some easy kills on infantry, all those things and more will give you a really good KD, really good stats, but they are 99% USELESS, POINTLESS, contribute in NO WAY to a faction's victory.



    And if you play a MMORPG in which you want to build a castle, you spend most of your time mining rocks, cutting down trees. That is repetitive, boring, NOT FUN, time consuming grind. But you and everyone else in the guild will do it. Because building that castle or whatever is worth it.

    And so if you're sundy is under attack, whether it's "yours" or a team mate (cause yes, you're on the same team), you defend it, sacrificing not just your time and fun, but your kd, you repair it, I mean who can say that repairing something is fun in any way?

    This and more brings MEANING to what you do, it brings MEANING to the victory you achieve, it gives MEANING to the game, a REASON you fight for and when the continent locks, and you say GG, and they say GGWP, that MEANS something because you DID play well and so did they.

    Without it, without meaning, without a reason to fight for, a goal to achieve, a victory to reach for, then why play? There's no reason to play if you don't have a reason to play .. get it?

    And all this obsession with stats, I swear to god, it's just a way for the insecure to give themselves a good image, a small but positive reputation, typical teen behaviour because at that age, that's what matters most, your reputation, being cool. Many players use virtual reality and virtual games to escape reality, and in many cases, what they are escaping, is a poor judgement of themselves, they aren't popular, they aren't handsome or pretty, they aren't this or that, they got spots on their face, they don't have pubic hair when all their friends have, whatever, whatever the reason, in the game, by grinding stats, they can feel good about who they think they are, because they can feel good about how others see them : "oh, you got a good KD, you're cool, you're good, I respect you, I look up to you".

    But here's the thing.

    Those stats don't say what you think they say. I got a general KD of like 0.8-1.1 depending on my accounts, and I'll kick most of your *****, for sure, 100%, but not just that, I'll win alerts, on my own, just by my own actions, I make a difference when I play, even though I'm solo, I save bases, on my own, I capture key bases and change the flow of the continent fights, on my own, very often if I hadn't done what I did in an alert, we would have lost, and because I did what I did, we win.

    How THAT makes me feel, the pride, the value, the arrogance I get from this, the way I see myself, THAT has value, because it MEANS something, being one person only, yet being that person who wins an alert for the entire faction, THAT"S an achievement.

    Getting a KD of 6 by playing a sniper in a tree, by spending 100% of your time in a tank, by flying ESFs all the time and grinding infantry, THAT is NOT an achievement.
    • Up x 1
  12. NotziMad

    PS. sorry wall of text, I swear to god I didn't realise how long my post was until I clicked "post" and saw it.
  13. NotziMad



    I'll tell you what you do :



    YOU QUIT

    where do you think those 6k players went? Why do you think they left? Why are there no more competitive outfits left ?



    THEY QUIT
  14. LordKrelas

    If we only played this game to the Best method to victory, ignoring fun, every battle would be barely a minute long.
    The spawn would be air-dropped onto, with Maxes & Engineers, or Medic Spam, locking all the defenders for the entire cap.
    Liberators would be flying over-head constantly not MBTs, ESFs would be used to attack not Lightnings, Map wide.
    Sunderers Spawned only for reinforcement, with every squad using a Galaxy in the Sky, raining shells.

    Engagements would be overwhelming force or Absent. Stalemates would be avoided, Long-battles dodged.

    If we only played this game to win, at the best methods, interaction would be "I have total victory, or I am not there" between factions.
    As that is how you win; You give no possible option for the opposition, and only use the most effective weaponry.
    That is Zerging with 90+ against 5 dudes, spamming Force-Multipliers as much as possible, with no chill.

    At that point, the "fun" that encourages Login is gone, as all opponents would be seeking to remove their opponents' willingness to attack them - and ensure victory by aggressive shutdown methods.
    That, deterrs the "Casual" play, discourages Long-term play as it seeps into their souls.
    Long Sessions become work , not play. Not practical.

    They're here to play the game & enjoy themselves, not execute the perfect meta 24\7.
  15. NotziMad



    Allow me to let you in to a little secret.

    THAT IS HOW THE GAME WAS PLAYED

    IN 2013
    IN 2014
    IN 2015
    IN 2016
    IN 2017
    AND ALSO IN ******* 2018

    And no, none of what you said happened.


    and once again,

    that ******* quote it's even in the ******* TITLE OF THIS T****ING THREAD


    PLAY THE GAME?

    THE GAME HAS ALERTS! YOU DONT PLAY THE ALERTS?

    THE GAME HAS TERRITORY, YOU DONT PLAY THE GAME TO SAVE TERRITORY OR CONQUER TERRITORY?

    THE GAME HAS ******* FACTIONS

    YOU DONT FIGHT FOR YOUR FACTION?

    WHAT ******* GAME ARE YOU PLAYING?

    WHEN I PLAY FOOTBALL, I DONT TELL MY TEAM : HEY GUYS, I JUST WANA HAVE FUN, SO I AM NOT GONA TRY AND SCORE GOALS, AND IF THE OTHER TEAM TRIES TO SCORE A GOAL, I WILL LET THEM SCORE BECAUSE I JUST WANA HAVE FUN.

    WHAT KIND OF A ****** UP ARGUMENT IS THAT?
  16. NotziMad

    seriously

    I'm either a ******* genius, one in a ****** million, that I understand SIMPLE ******* LOGIC and STRAIGHTFORWARD ARGUMENTS when it seems no one else does, not even the most basic ******* reasoning.

    Or, I'm perfectly normal, and surrounded BY ******* ******* with an IQ of 8??
  17. NotziMad

    oh hey, I just want to have fun and enjoy myself.


    I'M SORRY, DID YOU EVER MEET ANYONE IN THE UNIVERSE WHO PLAYED ANY GAME AT ALL BECAUSE HE OR SHE WANTED TO NOT ENJOY HIMSELF OR HERSELF?

    YOU THINK YOU HAVE AN EXCLUSIVE ******* RIGHT TO ENJOYING THE GAME? YOU THINK NO ONE ELSE PLAYS THE GAME FOR FUN?

    Oh please, let me just have fun and enjoy the game, let us all enjoy the ******* game.

    I'll tell this, if you're not enjoying the game AS ITS SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED then maybe dont play the ******* game.

    You want a pure FPS? tehre are a million ******* jFPS games out there that are more recent, have better graphics, have better performance, have a lot better gameplay AND IN WHICH U DONT HAVE TO DO ANYTHING AT ALL EXCEPT SHOOT STUFF FOR NO REASON.

    TRY PUBG

    TRY COUNTER STRIKE, OR CALL OF DUTY

    You wana "just have fun"? WHY DO YOU PLAY A GAME THAT YOU DON't FIND FUN?

    WHY DO YOU INSIST ON PLAYING A GAME YOU DONT LIKE IN WHICH YOU CANT HAVE FUN UNLESS ITS BY IGNORING ALL OF ITS CONTENT???

    **** ?. SERIOUSLY?
  18. NotziMad

    I swear to god, these days, I login, see what's happening, if there's anything I can "do", I try, if it fails, **** it.

    I mean if I'm trying to save bases fighting 1 vs 88888 even if it's an important base that will cut off the entire faction and garantee a loss for the faction, and I'm ALWAYS the only ******* moron who's there, trying to fight, LIKE IM SUPPOSED TO.

    Jesus, I just ******* log off, and google a ******* PVP MMO.

    I mean that is it, wait for alert to lock the continent, then wait for continent to open, and check then either play a bit, or ******* log off again.


    ANd one more thing, I said it before, but don't any of you sell me that this is the normal game play.


    I've played this game for 8 years and this game play only started being an issue 1 or 2 years ago.

    FOR 6 YEARS, I and many others enjoyed the game as it was supposed to be played, as the ******* devs made it.

    So don't tell me that its normal, 2 years out of 8 IS NOT NORMAL
  19. NotziMad

    I just don't get how people don't get it.

    So I thoguth about the most symple ******* logical reasoning I could, the most basic ******* argument even a 3 year old would understand , and I'm throwing this out there :




    If you don't like to score goals with your team, and if you don't like trying to prevent the opposing team from scoring goals.

    THEN WHY ARE YOU PLAYING FOOTBALL IN THE FIRST PLACE?
  20. LordKrelas

    The Game has alerts, that only reward you if you happened to be on the side that cared solely about "Winning",
    Those that did win , have less certs, less tools, and did not have as good fights as those that played to enjoy.

    When you play football, you aren't grinding the other Players into the Dirt, hitting their knees with clubs, and telling them to off-themselves, so you can run to the goal with less interference.
    In Football, the players when professional, are Paid Players.

    In Planetside, we aren't paid to slog through the "Game", to Meta-every-second so the map can scream "We won"
    As at the end of the day, we aren't paid, nor rewarded well, for the absolute abyssal grind of pure-meta.

    The game has combat, as People aren't Professionals doing the Meta hardest-as-possible.
    As Casuals, aren't stuck in "Meta or **** off".

    If everyone was that obsessed with Meta, you'd not get a Kill in a fight, without being lucky, or the overwhelming side.
    Play against the Koreans. You'll see, that is not encouraging gameplay.

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