It's been 24 hours. Shotguns nerfed, buffed, or just different?

With a shotgun you are able to win the first guy you run into in close quarters with absolute ease(which is 99% of the reason why people whine about shotties), but if a shotgun user wanted to get a KDR similar to cautiously using a LMG they would have to make 0 mistakes and never miss a single pellet to an enemy's head. You would need constant perfection to make up for the lack of range and safety of cover

Problem of this community is that every balance scenario is based on 1v1

So is it worth it to invest in Shotguns atm? Or is the ambush rusher style kind of dead?

Just use your default semi, don't put certs into shotguns, there are far more useful things.

You realize that this is all very bad for shotguns?

To be competitive against other CQC weapons you need to ADS to reduce the RNG, you don't eliminate it and the pellets can still randomly miss your target and increase your TTK to above that of other CQC weapons, making your shotgun useless in the process. However ADS also slows you down, which is very bad in CQC combat where hipfire combat is supreme and any SMG/CQC Carbine would murder you with hipfire if you try to ADS at that range. So basically to be competitive you screw yourself over. That's not how shotguns should work.


It should be extremely simple. A long-range weapon has less damage falloff, higher accuracy at range and less DPS overall.
The shorter the range, the higher the DPS, the easier the hipfire, the more brutal the COF increase per bullet and the less effective it is at range.
An SMG is geared towards CQC hipfire and sacrifices some of it's DPS potential, which it can regain by going for headshots while reducing enemy DPS by avoiding fire, it has the potential for longer range combat because it's still accurate but it's damage falloff is high.
A Shotgun loses even more range than an SMG, even with the latest upgrades to it's range. But despite the reduction in RNG (smaller COF) the lower damage per pellet means that RNG is even more important to cancel out, meaning that you are forced into ADS. This nullifies the hipfire accuracy of the Shotgun and makes it less powerful compared to other CQC weapons that do rely on hipfire (you know, every single other CQC weapon in the game?)

Really wish I could try it out but I have to wait for it to come to PS4. In every sense I can think of this change will make shotguns much better for my particular play style. But then I haven't really ever been a run straight at an enemy hoping my TTK trumps the enemy's who is standing directly across from me.

The old shotguns (unchanged on PS4) are terrible unless you plan on sitting inside 1 room running back and forth between the doors hoping to get the jump on someone inside of 15m. It's an absolutely **** way to play the game but then that's why I never bothered with shotguns, except for the Baron AE, which I'm using exclusively for the exceptional directive and then I probably won't bother with shotguns again. It's also the "best" shotgun in the sense it rewards smart play over the "in your face hope I'm faster than you and you die first" game play of the more short range shotguns.

You're talking about pre 1/12

May I ask. Why are people even thinking about using shotguns for RANGED combat?? Legit curious.

To complement a little on this bit. New shotguns are sacrificing CQC performance for the sake of ranged one. Why?

Because a shotgun isn't a melee weapon. It's a very powerful high damage weapon with tremendous variance in use depending on how it is set up to perform. Full choke large gauge low pellet count shotguns with very tight pellet spread can easily be lethal to 50-60m and require very good aim/skill. Very short barrel (sawed off) shotguns that have very large spreads are intended for very close range poor accuracy/aim shooting.

The "shotgun" is the most versatile weapon in existence. From slugs to explosive rounds, to aero dynamic winged slugs for long range accuracy to any combination of pellets and sizes. Flechette sabot shot, breaching rounds, non lethal bean bags, rock salt shot. They are even using water shot shells for diffusing explosives!

There are so many more uses for a shotgun than just the typical high spread super close range glorified melee weapons.

Why not have more variance? Like a shotgun I can use at 30m+? They are required for directives.

Shotguns are not sniper rifles either.
Yes I agree that they're powerful and versatile but you're also talking about "setting them up". This change isn't asking us to unlock an attachment that makes it perform the way it does now, it's telling us: "This is what it does now"

Why am I not allowed to keep it as a super close range weapon if I need it to perform as such? Also, if you want it to perform at ranges. What's wrong with slugs? Are they underperforming?

The COF change should make slugs incredible. Before they were inaccurate low ammo higher damage "scout rifles".

If you want cqc dominance try the auto shotty. It was the only shotgun with no changes to it's Max damage while receiving better ADS pellet spread, 0 COF bloom, higher minimum damage and a larger base magazine, the only negative change was a recoil increase.

Tell me how it works out!

That was the whole point of this thread. I want to know how the changes actually work. Not more speculation, hypotheticals and math.

Use the different shotguns in their intended roles and tell me what you think.

Also by set up I mean how the shotgun is made, not attachments (though some shotguns have different chokes you can swap out) Long barrel shotguns have tighter spread, larger bores allow for larger more powerful shells, single, double barrel, break action, pump action, semi auto, full auto, tube fed, magazine fed, drum fed....each is extremely different but they're all shotguns.

Okay so let's talk about the mauler.
I saw the notes and went to VR to free test a bit.
(All shots tested are point blank because, it seems clear everyone agrees shotguns were most effective at knifing range)
I found an infiltrator, shot to the head -> infil died as it would have happened before.
I won't lie, when I saw that I was like: Eh, maybe the shotgun changes weren't that bad.
I found a heavy next and shot to the head -> 100% shield down, 75% health down
...
Shot to the dick -> 100% shield down, 20% health down
...Ooookay so, no matter where I hit VR dummies it kills in two shots

I have yet to kill anyone outside VR with it because I either face people running certain combinations that now outperform shotguns (i.e nanoweave/smg/cqc carbs-cqc lmgs/high RPM) or someone else takes the kill while I'm lining up a second shot due to the doubled vertical recoil.

So once again I ask. What did the patch notes mean by "rewards for aiming better". Not only is it notoriously harder to control, it then proceeds to punish people by dealing less damage than its previous iteration.

And yes I mean it. I'm using the Gauss SAW to CQC because of this.

Also. A question on the side: What's maulers new role now? I'll admit I'm guilty of not having touched another shotgun until I get answers as far as quick reloads are concerned.

Update! I haven't used the standard shotguns at all since the update (without slugs), but I have used the Jackhammer a good amount.

The JH feels a lot weaker, needing 3 shots to kill almost every single time (though most were likely at full heath, I cannot say for certain what every enemy's heath was at.) I wasn't able to kill anyone in a single blast to the head, despite multiple attempts.

Overall I feel that the JH was just flat nerf'd, with the only apparent notable impact being the greatly increased magazine size, which is nice but didn't really come into play for me at all. I did end up firing ADS at some enemy players outside the usual shotgun range, but I only "stole" a kill from someone else. I think I'll stick to my Blackhand for range as I do now. The burst mode has earned some redemption in my eyes though.

Ultimately, I do not like or support the shotgun changes as a whole, nor the modifications to the Jackhammer.

Sorry the intended role of a pump action shotgun is...?
Because I felt really handicapped in cqc, even defending my spitfire.

Just my opinion but I figure the pumps will be the very highest damage and therefore the best slug shotguns. They should still be capable of HS 1HK inside of about 15m. 2hk out to longer ranges than pretty much any other slug shotguns. As well as the slug ammo reducing refire rate which the pumps benefit the most from. Non slug ammo they do seem pretty meh as they nerfed the damage enough to require an almost point blank HS to really be good.

The semi's are kind of run of the mill more versatile for more situations with the full auto being the most cqc oriented of the bunch.

Except every other primary already does middle to long range...

I've heard shotguns will soon be getting alternate ammunition besides slug and that all these changes will make more sense after that. But who knows.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see and accept that for the time being shotguns just aren't that good. Which if I'm honest I could care less. Shotguns have never been very good in this game. They have always seemed like a crutch for people unwilling to learn how move tactically and effectively in combat. Rewarding suicide runs straight into the enemy. They were low aim just get it sort of in the direction of the enemy and let the spread and super low ttk or 1HK score you some points before you get gunned downed for playing like an idiot.

I had hoped these changes would have made them better while limiting that kind of play styles effectiveness to maybe 1 of the 4 shotguns.

I've been running about with a piston (auto shotty) and it melts people just fun. Though with the usual shotgun requirement of you being the one to open fire first.

When i read the patch notes I thought: "Maybe it's not that bad?"
But I was wrong. It really is THAT bad.

The idea behind making shotgun players not only hip fire but ADS now basically is a good one. But only in theory.
In reality you are now forced to ads if you want to hit anything at all, and that still at point blank range. The pellet spread is still so big that you still won't hit anything reliably beyond 3 m range.
I really urge the devs to try out how a real shotgun fires it's pellets and at what range they can shoot.
While I understand that this is a game and not a simulator, it would help shotguns greatly if they had something like a maximum spread after a certain distance and afterwards would just fly straight. Tighten up the shot pattern a little bit more and finally shotgun would be usable at somewhat decent ranges. I's sad that any encounter over 10m distance is a certain death sentence.
I played around with the barrage a little bit and it now kicks like a mule...
Before it was a decent shotgun if used with slugs, now it is unplayable with slugs, they might as well have removed the ammo completely.
The shotgun changes are a mega huge nerf to all players using slugs before.
(And it's not like shotgun sniping was an easy thing to do before, but now it is completely impossible. It would do slugs really good if they lessened the kick and made bullet drop less also the damage drop off is quite ridiculous, slugs need more bang at longer ranges, short range is fine.)
So, I dislike the changes made a lot.

I take issue with it because my Bruiser won't one shot anyone unless I've got it pressed to the back of their helmet or thier stomach. It's also much less effective in mid air, where it really counts for LA siege breaking. If I have to two shot an an unshielded heavy at two meters there's a serious problem.

I can't help but laugh (which makes me feel bad mind you) that devs wanted shotgun users to be more skillful so bad that they screwed over their skillful users to do it.

Also shocking: shotgun users and hardcore players that care about all things infantry combat weapons say shotguns on PTS are bad, shotguns hit live, shotguns are terrible. It's almost like this was predicted but unheeded or something.
(Not pointed at comment above, just pointed at certain someones).

let's just say that in the time it takes for me to shoot two times (minimum for killing someone at close range), the enemy kills me with basically whatever weapon he's using.

I still one shot people at "very" close range, but that's also maybe cause it's so much easier to hit the enemies' head at that range (I'm talking almost touching, as in, running round a corner and bump into someone)

That's using the Uppercut.

If I sneak up behind someone and he's at medium range, I'd try get close before shooting but if he starts moving, I aim, steady, fire, but although I see the red cross appear meaning I'm hitting, I don't seem to do much damage at all if any.

Beyond that it's just as before, basically useless gun that couldn't kill a rabbit if it haning from a branch.

I'm actually a little pissed off, not so much at the nerf, but at how the devs listened to all those scrubs who called for a nerf. Although listening to the player base is very important, that doesn't mean blindly apply anything "a lot of loud people" are asking for.

Though, on a positive note, and I believe it's the first time I've seen this on PS2, I did appreciate the little explanation notes written in the patch notes that show why they changed what they changed or at least, what the intention was. Even though I do'nt like a lot of these changes, I really did appreciate some tech guy taking the time to let us know why.

I only wish now that these notes had been shared earlier which would have given us a chance to respond to them, but meh, "give them a hand and they ask for the whole arm" right?