Is ZOE really OP?

Before turning your hate-mode on, give this topic a chance. I play all factions, I know what it's like to fight against ZOE, as well as fight using ZOE.

I indeed noticed that when fighting against VS there's a ton of VS ZOE MAXes running around everywhere. And it's really a pain. No wonder everyone aside from VS hates ZOE. But then again, when playing as VS, ZOE feels really fun. Disproportionately fun. Being able to move around quick in a MAX feels so incredibly much more fun than being able to take out a shield or especially lock yourself into place. And so no wonder VS brings out so many MAXes all the time! I bring out my VS MAX a lot more compared to TR and NC. It's fun as hell!

Which brings us to the question - Is ZOE overpowered? Or just over-fun?
I think most will agree that VS wins a lot thanks to ludicrous amounts of ZOE maxes. But it's the "ludicrous amounts" is the factor, not the fact that they use ZOE. And they have ludicrous amounts, because they have ZOE, which is super fun to use, and everyone likes fun stuff.

ZOE vs. Shield
Ignoring the amount of maxes, a VS ZOE MAX versus a NC shield MAX, who would win? Well it really depends. In a close - range situation a NC MAX can kill a VS MAX in less than one second, by just emptying both their shotguns to the face. And if you miss, just use shield when reloading and repeat. NC MAX would definitely win. However in long-range situations the NC MAX would always lose. Because shotguns. However this seems to be an issue of the NC MAX itself, not it's shield, or VS MAX'es ZOE. If both maxes had the same weapons, it would be hard to tell who would win. VS MAX would get some shots blocked because of the shield, NC MAX would miss some shots because of ZOE's mobility. Seems balanced to me.
Simple solution - give NC MAXes a long-range weapon already!

ZOE vs. Lockdown
We definitely have a problem here. It takes so long to go into lockdown, and out of it, so that no-one really uses it in combat. And even if they did, a ZOE max would simply walk around the lockdowned TR MAX and it's goodbye for TR MAX. Though I think we can agree, that if it wasn't for the abilities, VS and TR MAXes are quite even. Both have weapons that are quite effective at range, as well as dealing substantial damage up close.
Possible solution 1: Buff Lockdown. A lot. First of all it's way too situational, thanks to the ridiculous time it takes to lockdown. This needs to be shortened by 50% or so. Secondly, since you can't move and are exposed to C4, as well as atacks from behind, along with the downside of an existing time it takes to activate the ability, the upside of using it needs to be big. Deal double damage while locked down (at least against infantry, would have to be toned down against vehicles), or something among those lines. Only then will it be comparable to ZOE or the Shield.
Possible solution 2: Get rid of lockdown and give the TR something useful instead. Jetpacks? Self repair? Maybe a transformers-like transformation to a vehicle? Come on SOE. I'm sure you can think of something.

ZOE itself
I can't tell if ZOE is generally OP, I think this is rather subjectve and relative to who you are, how you play, and what you play as. But I have to say that if it is OP, it's not by much. The extra damage done could possibly be toned down. This would make players consider whether it's worth to turn ZOE on or not, instead of having it perma-on. Also, the speed boost should scale along with ZOE's level, this would give players an incentive to cert into higher ZOE levels, instead of keeping it on level 1 or 2 like most people (including me) do.

Final thoughts:
I don't quite know what exactly to do about the situation of ZOE being more fun that other abilities. SOE needs to find a way to make other abilities more fun, and until they do, my suggested balance changes should balance out individual MAXes. VS will still probably win by ZOE MAX zergs, just that it would be able to be countered with TR MAX zergs, or NC MAX zergs. That is, if only TR and NC had the incentive to use their MAXes. Nerfing ZOE to the point where it's not fun anymore is just a bad idea in the core, because games are meant to be fun. If it's not fun, there's no point of playing the game. Would you rather have all MAXes be fun, or all MAXes be unpleasant? TR and NC maxes need to be made fun, not the other way around. How to accomplish this without replacing the current NC and TR MAX abilities is beyond me, but SOE, you have teams of developers, designers, producers, I'm sure one of them can come up with something good! Also read the forum replies, one of the users might have a brilliant answer to it as well!

TL/DR: VS wins by using tons of ZOE MAXes because they use tons of them, not because their MAXes have ZOE. They use tons of them because ZOE is more fun to use than other factions' abilities, and everyone wants to use the fun stuff. SOE needs to find a way to make other abilities fun. There are some balance issues but they aren't simply "ZOE OP" as most believe. I covered them in the paragraphs above.

Yes.

ZOE is hated, simply because of it's damage boosts and movement speed. I have gradually had less and less of a problem with zoes, as max units in general have one critical design flaw... you can shoot them in the head. Also, heavies with dumbfire rocket launchers. You can 1v1 a ZOE with a lockdown max, if you focus on headshots. C4 and tank mine traps likewise make them very good at dieing quickly.

A perceived nerf like what is being proposed by most people in the community, where the ZOE will get a timer and fuel on it's ability use, will likely fix the problem. I'm already seeing people using it less to compensate for this upcoming change.

As to lockdown, the best solution I have seen, is one that makes lock down have a wide turning radius like a tank and slow movement, while retaining it's firing... so the max can be used for breeching (Being able to creep into a room and lay down a ton of heavy fire, while using it's body as a shield).

After ZOE nerf, the people will jump into another thing to nerf. The endless cicle.

Yea, I wasted Certs into the TR max and im kinda mad that i did. The TR max is complete Junk. Takes Twice as much ammo just to kill what a VS or NC max suit does in 2 seconds. The lock down its self is only good for doing AA and or maybe going against armor but as you said you are left as a sitting duck. Like When in lock down the TR max should get a great deal of health and armor so it makes them hard as crap to take down instead of just being easy targets. So say a MAx in lockdown can not die from c4 as easy as others

ZOE max yea i havent used it but once and i really found it harder to aim with it. and i died so fast but going against them they kill armor WAY to fast they kill infantry just as fast as the OP NC max suit at close range but at a further range. and the fact that there is so many of the ZOE maxes and they really are not that much more easy to take down sucks. To balance them out....they need to lower the Zoe maxes health by 40%

I feel like the Power upscale is well balanced with its Armor debuff now. I feel like its Movement speed increase is well balanced with its Armor debuff now. Having both of them together does not balance out... ZOE needs a change because now it's just too good. It either needs to not be a toggle, or it needs to choose between power buff and movement buff, but not both at the same time.

Harrasser, ZOE - what make OP - mainly it MOBILITY. No onw really care - that you killed by max, or Harrasser or Aircraft - their OP is if you try kill him - they just run and you have very little chances to get kill. As much - as they whith really good damage in ANY range weapons can find you and fast capture you.
Give mobility yo NC MAXes - and reduse in twice damage from shotguns and what? They become incredibly OP whith half reduced weapons strength. Becouse they just cut distance faster whithout any chances for any classes exept LA. Now this situation whith ZOE MAXes.
TR MAXes kill you same as ZOE, but you can escape... From ZOE - not.

The problem is SOE do not understand how good extra speed is in a FPS. You only have to look at the problems with the harasser.

Right now it is the best of the 3 ability's by a large margin and has very little downsides to turning it on. Turning ZOE on should be a choice you cant make lightly, as the other two need to be deployed in only a few situations.

The extra damage you take is laughable as it is, and giving the ability to instantly turn it off if threatened removes any counter play the TR or NC can do. This is why it is so hated.


It is simply a better charge than charge with negligible downsides.


How do you not understand this?

ZOE is ridiculous ,the amount of ammo ,speed and range it has that makes it way OP. Plus lets look at the amount of weapons it has. Blue****, Quasars, Cosmos, Vortexs, and many more , 2 of which can totally wreck armour. One max can kill entire platoon and only relaod once !!

Yes just add a cool down and then i wouldn't have an issue.

Tell us your character names.

Also, you clearly don't understand the appeal of ZOE. It's the extra speed, not the extra damage.

Choices that can't be made lightly like Lockdown and Shield is one of or the biggest reason that the abilities aren't that fun to use. Maybe it's just me coming from games like Q3A and UT2004, but when death is irrelevant, choices you can't make lightly become simply a hindrance to enjoyment of gameplay...
I would edit my original post and add a disclaimer as to what games I come from at the beginning, but sadly I can't since 30 minutes have passed.


Charge is like the Basilisk. A starting ability that everyone swaps out as soon as they have the certs for much better alternatives. Or at least it should be, sadly as of now TRs get the short end of the stick here...

Hmm ok.

Well ok then let's see how you handle this then.

I stopped right hear. Clearly you have lied to all the viewers about playing all 3 factions, as its ******* impossible to kill any Max on Max in less then a second.

PS: I would love to see my NC Max destroy a ZoE in even a couple of seconds but we all know thats aload of HS.

Guess why:

marauder harrassers are also funs!

It was fun to use strikers while you knowing that the target can't evade nor use flares.

It was fun to use hacksaw at realease.

OP stuffs are always fun! For the user only. But it's terrible in a multiplayer PVP game.
If you want EZ mode, plays solo game and none would complain to be killed without effort.

Even without ZoE, VS have the best max (best AI and AV weapons).
Add to this a broken utility that give them mobility, versatility and increase those damages and f*** yeah it's fun(or OP) to mow down so easily so much people.

I just saw today 2 ZoE killing 3 TR max (including a fracture one) and them engeneer/medic support. Is that balanced?

https://players.planetside2.com/#!/5428021759076134513
https://players.planetside2.com/#!/5428021759080695057
https://players.planetside2.com/#!/5428021759080685553

Yes, I admit I don't play NC that much. Lately I've only been logging in for the passive bonus. Though around a few weeks ago I hopped on to try the NC MAX, which was not that bad actually. It's also when I came to the idea of this topic.

And sure I do. It's what gives it the fun factor!

"Less than a second" is just a saying meaning "very fast". You can't even empty a MAX's shotgun mag in a second, you'd get just 2 shots off in a second. Sorry if it got you confused.

Obviously it's longer than a second... What I meant is it's much faster than other maxes, like a TR MAX would kill ZOE in 6 seconds maybe? I haven't pulled my TR max in ages :/), when up-close a NC max would kill it in around 3-4 seconds.
Those numbers are just off my head how I remember them from gameplay, I didn't do any testing before posting, and that's why I didn't provide any numbers. "Less than a second" wasn't meant literally.

Not at all, I never used striker (apart on taking it for a test a few months ago) or hacksaws on release. I just got the second max shotgun 2 weeks ago.

The mobility makes it fun to get in, and out of action quick. It's an offensive ability, and being a very offensive player I favor offensive abilities like ZOE, not defensive abilities like the shield. Or useless abilities like Lockdown. It matches my play style. It's also a no-brainer when to use it, while TR and NC have much more situational abilities. Once again my arena shooter background comes out, but when death has no meaning or penalty, when you just respawn and nothing happens, right or wrong choices when to use an ability become simply a hindrance to enjoyment, because you will just make those right or wrong choices again after respawning. While you could just be enjoying the combat, relying on your aim and reflex, instead of ability strategy.

This is indeed nothing but personal preference on rush versus strategy, and it's subjective to every player. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying your truth isn't everyone's truth.

Actually, the Planetside 1 version was Lockdown (Which is what it is now, but not the reload part.) The last revision I saw for the TR ability was called 'Overdrive'. What this did was make the TR MAX glow, allowed the MAX to fire at the higher firing rate, and prevented it from being able to sprint. This ran on a capacitor, so when you turn it on, you couldn't keep it on forever.

With the ZOE... This seems to work similar to the Overdrive, except without the capacitor or the refire boost, and substituted more damage per shot, more agility and taking more damage. I think the ZOE should be given a 'burst' ability, but not one that can be turned on and off, as the agility does give the ZOE the advantage of making most shots to the head a bit harder to hit and shots to the body is more likely. The damage increase received just doesn't seem nearly as damning for it as well.

I think in the long run, it should be more of enabling short bursts with a slow recharge, with higher ranks increasing the burst time up, and shorten the recharge time... While 'beserker' mode (As this is what I seem to see ZOE to be), I find that the movement being close to standard infantry with the higher damage output to be a bit more than what the downside of taking more damage not nearly as 'comparable' to what the TR and NC have going against them on theirs.

You can move in a Harasser and repair. If you move with ZOE on, the engy's can't maintain a link because the MAX move's too fast for the engy to keep up and repair at the same time.


LD is actually REALLY good at choke point defense. Is it fun? HELL no, but then again neither is the Lasher, which is ALSO a choke point defense tool (and also why NOBODY has it or uses it).

OP, who said something has to be "fun" to be incredibly useful? The Flare gun is SUPER fun but you're dead with it in your hands. The pre-nerf Striker was INCREDIBLY BORING but the best AV weapon in the game (yes, better than the AV Mana Turret because it could be used for AA).

Fun != Deadly, nor does it mean people will use it. That is a fallacy everyone seems to think is true.


I will admit ZOE is EVERYWHERE but that's because it's 150 certs and to get any of the damage benefit (which is just 1 less bullet to kill) from ZOE, you have to have ZOE 5 which is 2.3k certs. So very few have ZOE 5 but EVERYONE can afford ZOE 1 and NOBODY can tell the difference between ZOE 1 and ZOE 5.

I also know that MAX's in general are very powerful and easily slaughter squishes, and as you (the OP) stated, the VS just pull more than the NC or TR. However, I watch the TR and NC do MAX crashes and they steamroll the VS just as easily as the VS steamroll the TR and NC. So it's not a problem of ZOE, but rather the fact that the VS just pull MAX's more than the NC or TR.

Then again I rarely see a TR Lighning as they all opt for the Prowler instead, while the VS and NC have around 30-40% of their tanks be Lighnings.