[Guide] Is Planetside 2 a competitive game?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by NyaR, May 24, 2014.

  1. Takoita

    Of course it is - it is PvP, so if one player wins some other player has to lose for that to happen.

    Oh, you mean like cybersports competitive? No, I don't think so, and I am kinda glad for that; PS2 would lose mines and stealth and all other remaining intresting things if it would go that way.
    • Up x 1
  2. Pie Chasm

    Video sums it all up.

    The PAL matches are sort of ridiculous with their constraints.

    This game was NOT made for competitive play. Counterstrike GO, or even Call of Duty have more competitive viability, since they were designed from the ground up for balanced matches, or even Battlefield 4 for that matter.

    The whole esports thing was just for marketing purposes. What is worrisome is that some people actually take this game seriously...
    • Up x 1
  3. AshOck

    It's competitive in the way that players compete with each other(regardless of empire) over skill, score, kills, kdr etc...
    Other than that, not really.
  4. NyaR

    So, to play competitively you have to contact the SOE devs to set up a sepcial server and set up a match time? Doesn't sound like it is a "part of the game" if a developer has to make special changes for it to work.

    Anyway, the reason I "went after" PAL is because I completely forgot about the community clash. The reason I forgot about it is because comm clash is about 16 clans with which I have nothing to do. There's no way for 99% of the other PS2 clans or players to compete in server smash because they can't field the required team because there isn't enough population in Planetside to allow for multiple competitive teams (that's why Europe and America are in the same league). That's an issue of PS2 player retention, it isn't an issue of PAL or Comm Clash, so I'm not going after you, I'm stating what I think is the truth.

    My credibility in regards to competitive gaming comes from creating competitive clans that won prize money in multiple tournaments in Counter-Strike and Savage 2. In those games if you were better than your opponent you could kill them without dying from lag compensation.
  5. NyaR

    Kinda like World of Warcraft ;)
  6. Liberty

    The funny thing is, lag compensation is in a way another layer of skill. By now it should be no surprise how hit detection works in this game, how far you can die around a corner after breaking LOS and things like that. There are even videos out there posted how simple movements can allow you to make the most out of the mechanic and use it to your advantage. As someone with a sub par connection, I've certainly had to take some time to learn the ins and outs of it and what I can and can't do.

    In this game, you might as well toss lag compensation in there with cone of fire, because both represent a certain degree of randomness to the outcome. Neither make the game unplayable at a competitive level if you understand them. And as someone who is coming from a competitive background in other games as you said, I really have no idea why I am spelling this out. The game won't be for everyone, some people prefer laser accurate, shoot where you point shooters, others enjoy different TTK / accuracy models. There is no singular "Right way" to do it.
  7. NyaR

    Lag compensation isn't by any means a main point in my argument of Planetside 2 not being competitive. It is a footnote, at best.

    PS2 is closer to World of Warcraft than CS. Handle that, rather than lag compensation. I can make my point of PS2 not being competitive without mentioning lag compensation.

    Edit: I just noticed you replied within the quote

    there is only a small faction of players who are usually interested in competitive play.

    This is true, which is why we need a drastically larger userbase. Having the same couple of teams play against each other over and over isn't a good environment for competition.
  8. Fenrisk

    There is a massive difference between playing with server side hit detection, no lag compensation and all players below 50 ping and Planetside 2's Client side hit detection, magic bullets that hit you behind cover and laggy players with 250+ ping. I noticed it as soon as I got into my first hour here and after 700+ hour's I still hate how the fps side of Planetside 2 is handled.

    The servers here are poor. I normally get between 18 and 22 ping on EU servers in other FPS games with dedicated servers but here mine sits around 50. Sometimes when I log in my ping is 130 too 150 which is insane so I relog. There is definitely something wrong with the way the servers handle PS2.

    This game is purely about tactics and has nothing to do with skill. Any kind of competitive play is completely and utterly destroyed by the lag compensation and client side hit detection. That's why players end up with so many double kills/revenge kills, why players die in cover constantly and why you see your low ping team mates dying around corners to magical damage aka client side bullets from third world internet land.

    You can't use lag compensation to your advantage unless YOU are the lagger with a poor connection. at least the lagger knows that everyone he faces will be suffering from HIS OWN bad internet connection. (thanks to client side :rolleyes:) Low ping players on the other hand have it worst of all because we don't know if we are facing some guy with third world country internet and a ping of 250+ or another Brit on Fiber-optic with a ping of less then 50. So each person a low ping player faces is a different foe in terms of how we should engage them. If they are low ping you can use speed and random movement to dodge certain fire power but if they are a lagger doing that will just get you killed. Laggers are all about who can kill who first, don't even try to use evasive actions as on his screen they will be delayed far too much to matter. That in itself removes all the fun out of the gun play here.

    I have been playing competitive FPS games for a good 10 years and Planetside 2 just isn't up to scratch. It's that bad I don't even consider this game a FPS game anymore. It is truly more like a MMO strategy game that pretends it has FPS infantry play. The reality is the servers and client side hand holding ruin the fun of the FPS side of this game.
    • Up x 1
  9. Dis

    These "constraints" you speak of (I call it crutch removal) are the reason PAL is the only true competitive event out there right now. Although at the end of the day it really wouldn't matter if shotguns, maxes, rockets, whatever weren't outlawed...the 12v12 aspect would render about 90% of the PS2 outfits dead on arrival since they can't win by the standard 3-1 pop advantage.
    • Up x 3
  10. Pie Chasm

    Why don't those "competitive" outfits succeed in real competitive games though instead of trying to be competitive in this game?

    Are they afraid of active competition?
    • Up x 1
  11. Liberty

    Playing 6 v 6, 12 v 12 or 24 v 24 is the reason you are getting 18 - 50 ping on other FPS games. When you have one giant map with thousands of players, you can't expect the same level of performance. That is pretty much common sense. Its like saying you get 200 + FPS playing pong, but only get 30 playing Battlefield 4 on ultra, and that because of it, the latter is unplayable.

    If you think low ping players have the worst of it, it just shows how in the dark you are. On the opposite side of things, you get insta-deaths where you are simply dead without warning like a head shot from a BASR (only it is a full auto rifle).

    Infiltrators can kill you before they ever drop out of cloak in head to head fights.

    A person pre firing around a corner will take you from 100 % to 0 health before they even appear on your screen.

    I'm not saying one side has it worse, I'm just saying both sides have their own problems to deal with.

    If you want to play a closed off 8 v 8 arena shooter then OBVIOUSLY planetside is not going to be the game for you. If you want massive air, armor and infantry battles with 100+ players on both sides? You are going to have to make some sacrifices.
  12. Liberty

    You just sound salty because you are clearly in an outfit that isn't relevant because it can't dump 200 people onto a base. Get gud and go recruit everyone you possibly can out of the warpgate.
    • Up x 5
  13. kidRiot

    There's a lot of misinformation here regarding the competitive side of Planetside 2. I don't know why, but I get the feeling from the OP that he's correlating "competition" with "eSports." Also, if you're completely forgetting about the event that started all the competitive events in Planetside 2, then I'd say you really have no food to stand on making videos like this. To form an opinion without fully knowing or understanding what you're discussing is ridiculous at best and that's what you did.

    There is nothing wrong with community people involved with bringing events like PAL, CC and SS to the Planetside 2 community. Competition, when organically grown like this, gives the players of Planetside 2 more options to approach the game. Server Smash is the most casual of all the competitions and mimics mostly what you'd see on the live server except your'e fighting against even numbers, something most people who play PS2 aren't used to. You can join up with any of the outfits involved or talk to your server representatives.

    I don't understand why you're sticking to this "16 clan" thing with Community Clash. Any outfit can sign up if you can field 24 players. Will you do well if you aren't prepared? No. That's where the competitive aspect comes in.

    PAL's rule restrictions are to provide an environment for people who enjoy infantry play. It removes basically all force multipliers so when you go up against another team, the only excuse for losing is getting outplayed, not succumbing to many of the random elements in Planetside 2.

    But really, if you're going to read nothing of what I posted understand one thing: do your research before you form an opinion.
    • Up x 3
  14. Axehilt

    True, League of Legends doesn't have mines (Teemo) or stealth (Twitch, etc). Oh, wait...

    Games don't have to forsake interesting things to be e-sports.

    The #1 issue is PS2 is designed around massive combat. E-sports work best with small team sizes like 5vs5 or 1v1. As team size increases, e-sport viability decreases (for a multitude of reasons, from recruitment to team management/training to the quality of spectating matches.) So PS2's greatest strength is the thing that makes it unsuitable for e-sport play.
    • Up x 1
  15. NyaR

    No, there isn't, and I never implied there is. I think it is great that you are doing it and support your efforts. I also think if you spend half of that effort into making a competitive league in another game that was built for competition it would be tremendously more successful.

    Another problem I address in the video is player population and the massive scale of Planetside 2. There simply are not enough competitively minded players to make up a large number of teams. That's why you only have 16 worldwide teams. It is an issue of userbase and player retention. Conversely, a game like CS needs 5 people to make a comp team and has a lot larger userbase to pick from.

    I specifically said in the video two things that planetside 2 needs to be competitive: bigger player population and servers/maps for competition and scrims.

    Seems you take my video as an attack on your competitive efforts. You shouldn't. I would like Planetside 2 to accommodate what you do and make it easier, but with the way things are right now, you are rolling a boulder up a hill trying to be competitive in PS2. This is the same thing NUC (I think) said before pulling out of your league (or maybe PAL).
  16. Fenrisk

    Skilled organised outfit's don't recruit players just so they can zerg bases. They take and hold bases through tactical play with the least amount of squad members required to do their Job. Organised outfits recruit members who 1) can follow orders effectively 2) can predict what's required of them 3) are follow certed in the class that's needed from their squad 4) Have fully certed vehicles for the role 5) Know how to lead themselves when other leaders are not online 6) Have a great deal of experience in PS2 7) Can provide something to that outfit beyond being another headless chicken in the zerg. 8) Checks the map and enemy numbers to see what bases need to be defended or attacked and knows what tactics to bring to that fight.

    Getting good isn't recruiting canned fodder by the hundreds to zerg everything. Any outfit or public platoon can do that. A good outfit can take and hold a base or point with fewer numbers then the enemy they face for the entire length of the cap without any outside help. A organised outfit can do what a zerg does but with half the numbers required.
    • Up x 1
  17. Liberty

    Hah, sorry man that was sarcasm. We are both in smaller outfits on the same server/faction with some pretty strict recruitment. What I said was poking fun at the larger outfits who are quick to pat themselves on the back after sending a full platoon to root out 1 or 2 squads on a point. There was some recent reddit nonsense that alluded to the idea that small outfits aren't really relevant because larger ones can eventually just send so many people into a hex.
    • Up x 1
  18. Flapatax

    NUC pulled out of RCCC after spending months gearing up for 48s and refusing to understand that teams that size were untenable by anything but zergfits.

    Also, thanks for helping bolster the competitive effort by saying how pointless it is and how we shouldn't bother.
    • Up x 1
  19. Udnknome

    It removes all "Tactical" gameplay and focuses completely on "skill", well -- their definition of skill.

    Their definition of skill is "the ability to aim and fire a small weapon".

    This is why Explosives, Maxes, Vehicles and Shotguns are removed from their game. IMO, they should just call it "Engineer's League" make everyone use the NS-11 and be done with it. Complete balance, simple rules.

    For those of us that like team elements, I suppose we are just too skilless to appreciate what is going on there. /s
  20. Flapatax

    Fixed that for you.
    • Up x 2