[Vehicle] Is now a good time to talk G2A weapons?

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by Botji, Jun 10, 2020.

  1. MagnusLee

    I like the idea of a 2nd weapon option for lightnings, it would give them a little more flexibility and as a skyguard you wouldn't be a joke to anything on the ground. But lets take it a step farther, why not a ground version of the ESF, give it the ability to have 2 weapon load outs like the ESF, but give it that empire flare. Could bring back the Thresher for Vanu in some form like that etc etc for the other factions. I like empire specific more than NS/Generic crap anyway, adds more flavor to the play style.
  2. Botji

    Yeah but then we have a situation where every Lightning is also a Skyguard and they stack really well so unfortunately I dont think its a good idea. Air would literally not have anywhere to go if all the Lightnings driving around were Skyguards.

    The balance we need is a G2A option that is dangerous enough to get aircraft kills which in turn makes it viable/fun to use, you get rewarded for doing that 'job'(as well as being a balancer for aircraft). It also needs to be weak enough that most ground targets are a serious threat so it doesnt replace the normal tank guns and thus not too common to see like the Skyguard is, you dont see large packs of them moving around that often.

    Seeing two or more in the same area is kinda rare unless there is a tank zerg forming and thats the balance it would need to hit and unfortunately these easy solutions dont really make it there.
  3. Johannes Kaiser

    Most important of all, imo, is that we need something that can reliably hit air units from secure locations.
    Means spawns, out of windows, etc. Because too often as infantry, once they see you you are dead. So the only places maringally safe are buildings, which emans you can't shoot out as due to how the lockon works. To be frank, I currently do not have an idea on how that could be ahieved, but it feels like an area that could do with at least a bit of improving.

    Example (from the other side): Two days ago i decided to pick up G2A (I know, I still feel as dirty as rolling in manure a whole day; but in my defense I like to occasionally do things that are not in my normal wheelhouse). I joined a somewhat overwhelming attack on Peris Amp, because at the time it was the only serious fight and I did not want to pick on like 2 poor infantrymen. And in the 90 seconds from me arriving to the SCU going down I killed 13 of the poor gound folk, and they did not have any chance. The way the spawn room is set up and wedged between the other buildings completely annihilated their odds at getting a shot at me.
    It was UTTERLY one-sided and so dirt cheap if someone tried to sell it to me they'd have to pay up. And I am a real air noob. I can fly pretty well, but my ability to hit anything while airborne is next to zero.
  4. TR5L4Y3R

    it´s always a good time to talk bout outside combat between infantry vs vehicles vs air .. especialy with the collosus now available
    but infantry and maxes should not have to constantly depend on its shield to be able to support it ..

    and i´m not getting tired on repeating myself on balance for outsidecombat here
    groundunits need more g2a weapons (hornet or masamunestyle, breakerstyle and hyenastyle AND ALLOW ES-turrets on other vehicles like the ANT, the lightning with it´s ES variants aswell as a few mor NSvariants, and the sunderer)
    walker should be able to do some fairish dmg against vehicles but be good against infantry from range with its limited pitch downwards

    the ranger needs to do enough damage to threaten vehicles, there is constant debate on how this weapon should perform its AA duty ... imo it either need a RoF, dmg or velocitybuff against aircraft ... it´s often too easy for aircraft like esfs to escape even 2 skyguards barely damaged and just come back to snipe vehicles and infantry .. other than that vehicls simply have no options other than deterance with current groundbased AAoptions ... APcannons and Halberds are NOT AAweapons

    esf need their secondaries be capable to be used against other aircraft (coyotes are still absolute scrap, hornets are hard to use for the comparibly little damage they do and lock ons could also do slightly more damage)

    dalton libs need a slight nerf imo .. they are simply too strong against infantry, not even maxes have a chance to survive 5 seconds

    maxes need more surviveability in general as well as additional AA options (and some more general NS options would be nice)

    infantry like infils and medics should get access to the rockletlauncher as a primary option, give it to medics for certs (allong with a primary AV granadelauncher option) and to the infil as ASPoption, also friggin offer a ammopouch for extra underbarrel grenades, rockletrifle and eventualy medic grenadelauncherammo...
    give infils, medics and engineers access to AV grenades for certs ..

    it doesn´t matter that infantry is primarily meant to capture bases, they should be capable to assist a vehiclepush torwards a base which they are simply incable of other than HA rocketlaunchers and constant engineerrepairs, who also need to support said HA while hoping to get medic support , who however have no way of surviving in open battlefields with current ballance and lack of AVoptions..


    also my god bring PMB surivebility back to a level were it was in the hivedays, decrease the nobuild-zones and the time to build a pmb ... and make PMB construction more flexible to be able to redeploy non- destroyed assets and transfer unused cortioum between silos ... it should be possible to fairly quickly raise a forward outpost or firebase on the frontline with a group of four or 6 people ...

    make pmbsilos go nuclear by being able to overcharge them like hives back then to have a counter against OS spam, but also offer a siloshield so overcharging becomes not too easy ...
  5. gfoceRETURNS

    It's like you're arguing against air using the fact that air can fly as proof it's OP. Air is superior to ground. Period. Simply due to the fact that it can... you know... fly. Name a game that has elements of both where that's not the case. Now becoming good with air in a game is a different story.

    Besides... if your entire argument is "give tanks a shredder" lol... I'm 100% aboard for that plan. It would make my day to see a bunch of lightnings running around with shredder and not AP rounds. I fight shredder/walker/drake libs all the time and here I am, not whining.

    You're a ground pounder. That's what you do. You look like you're good at it. I'm sure all the people you sh*t on in this game think everything you use is OP. Literally the only thing needing nerfing is A2G AI weapons. Give lightning a shredder. Give lightning a secondary slot with walker or ranger. The noobs are still going to be noobs.

    The fact that you believe nothing shreds a lib is pretty hilarious and indicative that you have not spent time in them. You may get bent over by libs in your lightning and MBT.... but no... you haven't spent time in them. Video yourself flying during primetime with A2G focus in a lib... then come back and tell us nothing shreds libs.
  6. gfoceRETURNS


    If you can't reliably hit air from spawns and inside buildings with lockons or burster max... i got bad news for ya. You could make the only weapon available to air a repair gun and you're still going to suck.

    You approached the point then it went 2 miles over your head... "I hopped in air to see how it was." There ya go!!!! Hop in that bad boy and take the fight to the sky. Pull a skyguard... Do something different. Don't ruin other's game because you think you should be able to one man foot zerg for miles without vehicles farming your sweet tiddies.
  7. Johannes Kaiser

    I did not ask for wall-piercing hitscan onehit weapons or anything. A redesign of some spawn locations might already help here. Because if the buildings around offer more protection to the air units farming the spawn than to the people who try to get the heck out of the spawn (you know, like they tell you in the loading screen, "no war has been won in the spawn room"?), then something's off and should be changed.
    But thank you for completely misinterpreting what I said so it fits your agenda and you can insult me.
  8. Botji

    Strawmanning like a pro I see.
    If its hard to understand, its not that they are flying that makes them OP which you are trying to strawman, its that they do that while also being tanky like tanks, evasive like Harassers, similar to better DPS than MBTs, gets multiple weapons which keeps them as #1 of versatility and then the 'little' issue of there not being any good counters to them aside from "Throw a lot of people at the problem" which is completely opposite to what a counter actually means.


    Then you are either insane or dont know what you are talking about as it would completely break the balance of ground vehicles, no one would use anything but that one weapon and while I would enjoy the tsunami of pilot tears even I think that would be overkill as a G2A weapon which is why I used it to show how dangerous aircraft weapons are allowed to be while anything like that on the ground would blow anything else away or require a complete rebalance of all ground vehicle weapons.

    It would take 2,47 seconds within 75m to kill a Composite ESF or 3,52 seconds to kill one no matter how far away as long as you hit the shots, with a stock reload time of 2 seconds people would either bring it down to 1,7 seconds per reload or add 20 rounds to get 70 shots per reload, enough to kill 2 ESF without reloading and around in just 2,5-3 seconds each if they get anywhere near a base with that tank in it. I mean it only loses 0,57 damage per meter beyond 75m up to 175m so the damage loss isnt huge.


    I dont really see how you got to that conclusion so it would be funny if you shared that leap of logic, nothing here really makes sense.


    It is hilarious since any and all information you need to see that its very much true is just there if you bothered to check on it instead of going by your gut feeling which will be heavily biased on those rare moments of your Liberator flying into a wall of G2A weapons.

    It takes a little more than 8 seconds for a Skyguard to bring a stock Liberator low enough for it to catch on fire, dont exactly agree with that being "shredding" a Liberator though, especially since its literally impossible to do it without reloading if the Liberator has Composite armor or Fire Suppression and lucky for Libs, they often have both and just the reload puts the "on fire" timer to above 11 seconds(11,75 without reload upgrades).

    Im sure you were talking about flying into a wall of G2A hate after a bunch of people got tired of being farmed, which is not that relevant since everything dies to overwhelming force and doing balance around that would be really weird but I kinda have to assume you know what you are talking about so cant just wave it off with that.
  9. MonnyMoony


    Would sliding scale speed based damage multiplier work (i.e. the slower the speed of the aircraft, the more damage it takes from any given weapon). Something like:

    Full throttle (non afterburner) = 1.0x
    Completely stationary = 2.0x
    Full speed + Afterburner = 0.75x

    Intermediate speeds would have a damage multiplier adjusted accordingly between those set points.

    That would deter the hovering or pop up behind a hill ground farmers that seem to be everywhere and would instead encourage more high speed hit and run tactics - even giving the aircraft some damage mitigation if they were using afterburners.

    Of course aircraft could still hover and ground pound, but it would be a much higher risk proposition.
    • Up x 1
  10. gfoceRETURNS


    uhhhh... Pretty sure I didn't misinterpret you. In fact I'm quite positive you said this, "Most important of all, imo, is that we need something that can reliably hit air units from secure locations. Means spawns, out of windows, etc." All I did was point out the fact that you got bigger issues than game balance if you can't hit/chase off air from the 2 locations you described (spawns and windows).

    Redesign of buildings is fine. May I remind you that essentially all major bases have completely shielded pathways to the important stuff? Amps, Bios, and Techs all have cover. What I can tell you is 75% of the people who zerg spawn into these slug fests make no attempt at using these covered pathways to victory. What's more... there is this class called infiltrator. A2G has no way of seeing it. You'd be surprised by the level of b**ching that could be eliminated on these forums by simply linking up with a group and following their lead or listening to their tips. Hell... I'll even give you tips to kill people like me.
  11. gfoceRETURNS

    Strawman... are you planning on establishing the Planetside Debate and Logic Society? We're talking about a PC game. Not socratic seminars. Holy baby jesus. And if you wanna go there... you just offered a false dichotomy in the quote below. Now, can we actually discuss what we came here for and resume our passive aggressive insults?

    Tanky like tanks. Wrong. I am going to screen cap some gameplay for you so you can see. You really love to break down the numbers... except when it doesn't fit your BS. You spoke about DPS figures below. Why don't you give the same detailed analysis for a statement like "Tanky like tanks." Could it be because a single walk mag can literally bring a lib to flames? Bless your heart... are you just looking at the 5000HP listed for libs and comparing that to tanks? What about resistances to various projectiles/missiles? What about the fact that a flying object is "trackable" and "hittable" for far more enemies than a vanguard in defilade? So for every mountain I get for cover in my lib, I also expose myself to 4000 more meters of surprises. But your mind doesn't work that way. You're just pissed that a lib wasted you and dropped your 20/1 KD to 8/1.

    Evasive like harassers. Sure. Until you consider my point above. And your evasiveness only lasts as long as your afterburner. So use wisely!

    Similar to better DPS than MBTs. Again... very vague language from someone who seems to get quite specific when you're feeling it. So... lay it on us, arbiter of truth.

    Gets multiple weapons... as do MBTs, sundies, harassers (if you're creative), flashes (for the creative souls again), galaxies, and valkyries.

    Any other BS to add to the list?



    "Insane or don't know what I'm talking about" -- here's a hint... I said give lightnings a shredder because I've used shredder and my main mission in game is to get gunners (pro and noob alike) on target with weapons like shredder. I know what it takes. It's not easy. The crew must be communicating and must be in perfect sync to achieve the results you so dread. This is how I know you're full of sh*t. What field of fire does a liberator belly gun have? How fast can a liberator get back on target once a sweep has been made at speed? Have you ever tried to hit ESF's with the shredder while your pilot is engaging in upside down, sideways flight, and evasive maneuvers? It requires months, if not years of pilot experience to maintain angle. What's more-- I can be the best pilot in the world but if my gunner is ****, I ain't killing much. Even if I get a good gunner, I need to call out targets and the gunner must remain disciplined enough to hold his fire and select the target i call out (sometimes within a sea of other targets) where a fraction of a second means the difference between kill or no kill, survival or death. You see me raining down death on tanks as if it's some easy mode feat. I see my play style for what it is... years of practicing and for my best runs, a partnership with a gunner I've practiced with for years and am actively communicating every move with.

    Your DPS numbers are absolute horsesh*t. Show me one clip. Any clip!!! of a lib crew eating two ESFs with one shredder mag. Again proof that you know absolutely f**k all about flying or gunning libs. Where'd you get those figures? The VR range? Go to jail. Do not pass go and do not collect $200. Ganking an ESF in 2.47 seconds... hell even 3.5 seconds.... hell even 5, 6, 7, or 8 seconds means I snuck up on his **** and he was either AFK, pre-occupied, repairing, or a fresh off steam download noob. I engage ESFs every time i get on with a shredder/walker combo and I have never had a legit fight with ESF(s) over that quick where I didn't get a massive drop. So... let's toss this argument out the window.



    Gameplay videos to follow. My gut is right. Your gut is wrong. I don't go by some lab grade DPS numbers. I go by the fact that I am an excellent lib pilot and I know what getting shredded is. It's being reduced to flames before you can complete a barrel roll.

    I was just on this morning and was killed by a skyguard and a walker ant (that can literally turn invisible, I might add) before my afterburner could cross the halfway spent mark. Again... videos to follow.

    In conclusion... I'm sorry you feel you die too quickly (not really). Other people (read: i) in this game feel the same. Except they (read: i) don't go whining to the dev gods to pad their KD. They go out and figure ways to defeat their challenges. In bigger conclusions... your numbers are trash. You apply them selectively. You fail to consider fundamental characteristics of playstyles and cold hard truths (like the fact that a liberator is a bullet sponge for every flak shell, lockon, and ESF in a 4000-5000 mtr radius).

    Nerf ESF AI A2G. If you are still whining about libs being tanks, harassers, and gib machines all rolled into one... I'll cap some videos to tuck you into bed with a nice warm glass of milk and graham crackers.
    • Up x 1
  12. Johannes Kaiser

    They do. But in them one is also quite a bit less likely to encounter A2G in significant numbers. What keeps getting farmed is the small bases, precisely because they almost all have no shielded ways to the points and horrid FoVs from the spawn. You can even tell the pilots know where it's worst, because the few bases where this is not as bad, they don't swarm like flies around a corpse. Can't name you any off the top of my head, though, they are too rare (and/or simply too far away from the main lines so they are almost never contested to begin with).