Is NC doomed as a faction?

don't think so, kicked my butt today.

make sure to include yourself in that list dummy, i recall you teamkilling me all because i didn't revive you when we were getting overrun. i was checking the map to see where to redeploy to next when you threw a hissy fit. that was your lame *** (boohoo) explanation. gimme a break

sure i team killed you back 5 times in a row but hey, lets face it, you had it coming.

Logged in last night to see world population at: VS 40%, TR36%, NC 24%

Best MBT gun? Nope sorry Prowler takes the 1st place podium here. (Considering its the best infantry farming tool).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...OVEyc3dLX2dCUTcwRVZWMDBsWWc&usp=sharing#gid=0

Only the best Rotary if you don't miss a couple of bullets. (Which you have to be point black to do so).

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...NFZjVSSDFiM1V4ckZtT3RLaHc&usp=drive_web#gid=0

Best gunner AV? Nope not the Enforcer. (It's the Saron HRB by quite a "Big" margin)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...OVEyc3dLX2dCUTcwRVZWMDBsWWc&usp=sharing#gid=0

What game are you playing? Because if I don't move in distant fire fights I get headshotted by the inevitable 8 billion snipers, rocket podded by some ******* from the 3rd empire who's only there to farm, or one shotted by a loser using HE. And while I don't agree that you can't "dodge", it's still a lot harder to hit a moving target than it is a stationary one, especially at range where bullet velocity comes into play.

Also, the weapon comparison is absolutely valid because they are the default weapons for every empire. And they're the ones I see used most often, even by high BRs. I don't have any issue reaching out and hitting someone with the CARV if I set up my scope for it. Difference is I can usually burst for 7-10 shots, unlike the SAW where I only get 2-3 shot bursts to maintain accuracy.

And TTK is absolutely important. Which is again why TR is better, because they have shorter TTKs. Proof:
CARV@10m: 1000/143 = 6.99, or 7 shots to kill. 7 / 12.5 shots per second = TTK of .56 seconds
CARV@65m: 1000/125 = exactly 8 shots to kill. 8 / 12.5 shots per second = TTK of .64 seconds
SAW@10m: 1000/200 = 5 shots, 5 / 8.3 shots per second = TTK of .6 seconds
SAW@65m: 1000/175.8 = 5.68, or 6 shots to kill: 6 / 8.3 shots per second = TTK of .72 seconds.
SAW@85m: 1000/167 = 5.98, or 6 shots. Same as above, TTK = .72 seconds

With nanoweave and overshield:
CARV@10m: 1000/.8 + 650 = 1900 / 143 = 13.28, or 14 shots to kill. TTK = 1.12 seconds
CARV@65m: 1900/125 = 15.2, or 16 shots. TTK = 1.28 seconds
SAW@10m: 1900/200 = 9.5, or 10 shots. TTK = 1.2 seconds
SAW@65m: 1900/175.8 = 10.8, or 11 shots. TTK = 1.32 seconds.
SAW@85m: 1900/167 = 11.37, or 12 shots. TTK = 1.44 seconds

So at those 100m+ ranges, the SAW's TTK is about 12% worse than the CARV's. The SAW is never better, is only close right at the CARV's final damage drop, and missed shots on the CARV are less punishing than those on the SAW due to the higher fire rate. And of course, you can use the forward grip on the CARV as well as the SAW if the horizontal recoil is really too much for you to control.

Beyond that, you do realize you're basically complaining about an LMG not being as accurate as another at ranges you should really be sniping or using a battle rifle for, right?

Oh the same thing happened to you too? Unfortunately after he TK'ed me I just couldn't find he on the area. Looking foward to balance the score though.

I will counter this argument by drawing attention to the horizontal recoil, vertical recoil, and Bloom rates. I can't do the math off-hand in my head, but I do remember that the SAW's bloom reaches uncontrollable after the first 5 shots. To land the last 1-2 shots that result in a killing blow relies on target profile and luck. And this is assuming you have an Adv Grip installed.... the weapon's ADS effective range drops dramatically without it.

The CARV on the other hand maintains controllable bloom up to around 10 shots, and remains pretty reliable up to 15 rounds at med range (20-30m). With a Grip the horizontal recoil is far less noticeable. In a twist of irony, the bloom rate is so slow, and the RoF so high, the CoF works to your advantage by creating an almost shotgun like effect when using controlled bursts. So between the grip controlling side recoil, its naturally low vertical recoil, and steadily expanding ADS bloom, you have a VERY reliable weapon for all but the longest LMG ranges. Even the Orion can't match this kind of ADS performance.


Arguing longer ranges is also pretty misleading, as most people tend to engage at less then 40m, usually less then 30m if maneuvering, at which point the LMGs are no different then an AR or Carbine, except with a much bigger magazine. The only, and I do mean ONLY reason the SAW feels more dangerous at very long ranges is how the damage tier lends well to faux semi-auto fire. At 100m (which is stupid long range for any unguided, non-sniper class weapon), you'd only be able to fire 1 or 2 shots at a time before the vert recoil puts you off target. Its such a terrible argument, it makes the rest of your post harder to find credible.

My answer to OP's question is probably, on your server, yea.

This is deliberately misleading. DPS is only important at close range though. Once you get out to 40m+ accuracy is the most important stat.

Best advice to NC is when you are getting shot at from 40m+ is to crouch down and take your time to burst properly. More often than not you will kill them before they kill you. The SAW for example kills in 3 shots to the head at any range.

Most high BR players don't use default weapons and there's no way in hell your finding it harder to hit targets at range with the SAW then the Carv. I'm calling faction bias/bs on that statement. Your focussing on SAW Vs Carv as brining ALL NC and TR weapons into the debate would completely destroy your own argument that TR has the best DPS/Accruacy. Most TR Heavy's I encounter run with the MSR in CQC and NC heavys run with the Jackhammer. You Know that weapon that has MUCH higher DPS then any TR LMG as pointed out by another poster?

Jackhammer makes NC the best DPS faction in CQC. SAW makes NC the best long range automatic weapon faction. (in terms of a environment full of heavy's)

A SAW with a advanced fore-grip+compensator IS the most accurate full auto LMG in the game. It's recoil/bloom is the easiest to control or plan for as its almost all vertical recoil. Aim for the torso and your bullets edge up to the head of your target. The TMG-50 (TR best long range LMG) on the other hand ends up shooting off to the sides because obviously players are only 1/4 the size in width and the TMG-50 has higher horizontal recoil then the SAW but with NO option for a advanced foregrip. Don't tell me the Carv is better then the SAW at range as thats a bloody lie if ever I heard one when the TMG-50 doesn't even match up to it.

In the entire time I've played on my VS and TR characters, I've been killed by a jackhammer 3 times. By 2 different people. Compared to the total amount of SAW deaths, which is probably 30-40% of my last 1000 deaths by NC. People don't use the jackhammer because you require absolute perfect accuracy at ranges of less than 10 meters for it to be more than moderately effective. It's the very definition of a "Niche" weapon.

You should go back and read where I said I had a hard time hitting at range with anything. Pro tip: I never said it. I did say I have an easier time maintaining accuracy with the CARV at range than I do with the SAW. My first 2 shots with the SAW will land. But then I have to let the CoF go back down, which gives me very short bursts with delay, further increasing the TTK over the CARV. Using the CARV I can actually fire enough shots to be lethal against a non-HA and reasonably expect to kill them before I have to stop shooting.

Want a good CQC weapon? Get a shotgun. Any shotgun. With client side hit detection, you're going to kill whoever you get the jump on before they even react on your client. CQC in this game is more about who gets the jump on who than anything else, since even the base CARV will only give people about .1 second of reaction time before they die by the time the server is done sending packets to and fro.

Facts are right in front of you in the last few posts. The magical horizontal recoil (and angles) you're complaining vary from either not significantly worse to completely non existent. Maybe you like the feel of NC guns more than TR guns, but that's a personal preference, not how things actually are in game.

Of course, if you want to go by real stats, such as what you can find on dasanfall, NC has the highest accuracy and overall rate of headshots. Combined with the lowest k/d ratio. Take what you will from that.

this is correct. accuracy is more important at longer ranges.

now, for fun, look at the ADS stats between these two carbines-- the merc and the new lynx.
THAT is pretty eye opening. forget the ACX too

also, for more ****tles and giggles, look at the moving ADS of the SAW and then the moving ADS of a sniper rifle. yeah.

this is not correct.

standing still as anything other than an infiltrator that can immediatly cloak and run off is death, and not just from snipers. what you gain from standing still is invalidated because now *i* can simply hold my house over your head/body as i move around and plug you silly since i no longer have to adjust my aim. anyone else near me too is also shooting at you too, and they have an easy time as well. there is nowhere near enough penalty for moving, and that's STILL why .75s ADS guns are usually top dog even after they all got nerfed awhile back.


the ns-11 is a great example of a .75 gun. its got great accuracy too at .25 moving ADS. however, these benefits come with the drawback of less dps, and it creates a risk/reward for the gun and getting headshots. high risk, high reward and all that.


giving those accuracy stats to a 909 rpm, high dps rifle is low risk, high reward. making the orion a CARV upgrade is also low risk, high reward. bloom should/could be reversed on the guns as of now and things would be overall better by spades. something shooting at 700+ rpm (roughing it # wise) should be either pointing at the sky or a total crapshoot after 10 bullets, quicker for higher RPMs--NOT in the same spot after i unload 30 rounds and burst it on some poor sod. the SAW gets 5 bullets max before it cant be tamed, and thats just silly considering what the bullet hoses are doing right now.

id love to have a high dmg weapon that rewards my good aim and punishes my bad aim. this iteration though, just punishes me without giving me a chance to improve. you cant control RNG sniper rifle level bloom, and im not masochistic enough to roll the dice when the alternative is so much easier AND more rewarding.

its not so hopeless...I have seen the NC claim about four continents on various servers...and though...they have the highest level of hackers due to the low accuracy high damage trade off making an aimbot or no recoil hack transform all NC weapons into God mode weapons

NC on Woodman seems to hold it's own most of the time. Going to be interesting after server merge.

Nope. I'm beginning to believe most of the people that post here don't even play the game. You can quite comfortably crouch and get the kill while a VS or TR is trying to have a shooting match with you at range. Many times a headshot from my reaper is enough to make the panic and run off. This claim that if you quit moving for even a split second you die is complete ******** and only pushed by ****ters on forumside.

NC do pretty decently. I'm on Connery which many forumsiders don't even consider. But we usually do well. It's just that in some alerts the TR and VS both just try to pummel us into submission because 'we deserve it' or something along those lines.

You were a useless twit, but I overreacted. I'm sorry. I'm a passionate player and I expect too much from others. When I play medic, I'm always aware. Ready to help a mate. Few care like I do. This is my issue.

Still, this game is far more thrilling when you give a damn. So, I'm cool with being how I am. Jerks are needing in some places.

You locked yourself tking me. That was really dumb.

Can people actually hack this game to that level? Wouldn't that all be on the server and out of someone's control? I suppose if hit detection is clientside then someone could hack the client to claim more hits. But you'd think SOEs systems would pickup some kind of conflicts and flag the user for investigation.

It's because Connery. We supa high yo.
Ehem...

I love having more targets! Under pop server exp is nice every now and then (I use that phrase loosely.)

Funny that I don't see any players dancing back and forth while shooting at targets past 60m. What I see 90% is crouched NC/TR/VS not moving so they can kill their long range target before it can react or get a decent shot off.

The key to long range infantry engagements is unmoving crouch burst fire on the chosen target and THEN get quickly back in cover. You need to kill/damage QUICKLY so your exposed for less time. That's what most players/classes do. Dancing while trying to hit anything at range will get you killed as 90% of your shots will miss and it's far less difficult to hit a moving target when your crouched/still then it is for them to hit you. In fact I'm always happy when my target starts the bunny hop sideways dance as I know he won't be hitting me anytime soon even with me crouched perfectly still.

I honestly have to ask do you have long range INFANTRY engagements? Do you not see all them crouched players who just edge out of cover/drop their target then move back in? That's what most players do including the br 100's.

What you don't see is a idiot doing a dance to avoid being hit while spraying their gun at someone past 60m or if you do they die without killing anyone lol. Makes me wonder if we are playing the same game as another poster has said. The .75s ADS guns are for CQC not ranged dance off's lol

You dance fight in CQC or within 50m, You crouch still, burst fire, seek cover and Rince/repeat at long range. That's how PS2 works. Not to mention there are plenty of vantage points and flanking points on the map where the enemy is reacting to your long range fire where hitting every shot counts without any help from his friends take you out and since TTK is low when your hitting all shots he will be dead before he can even start his dance off.