Iron Sights >> Remove dot sights (restrict)

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by karlooo, Aug 5, 2021.

  1. karlooo

    In Planetside 2 what you do all game, every game is just point a red or yellow dot on the enemy, on their head....That's 90% of what you do in the entire game lol. Just point a dot.
    Purchase a new weapon, equip the dot (and other required upgrades).

    It would be very interesting if there was something more to it, the gun that we purchased. Something that'd require us to... Get to know our gun better.

    This extensive weapon customization is already past its expiration date. It's just pointless, the meta requires you to only equip the Forward Grip, Dot Sight, and aim at the head. Weapons that do not have good hipfire, will never have it, weapons with good hipfire already have it, and do not require a laser sight....Meaning not going by the meta, is only downgrading your effectiveness on the battlefield.

    Maybe the dot sights do not need to be removed entirely cause there may be players that'd want this "tactical" equipment (makes it easier to hit headshots) but at least do not support this, with attachments that add accuracy lol.
    Each gun should have a limit of one upgrade. Meaning you can choose either a Dot Sight; or a Forward Grip (iron sights); or [upgrade] (iron sight)
    I know this isn't original but what is. At least those devs knew what they were doing.

    This change will town down this disgusting meta and may open up room to add some new refreshing additions. Some new attachments/upgrades to the guns because it's currently pretty boring for the amount of attachments because you always choose the same.
  2. That_One_Kane_Guy


    This is akin to making a driving game more "exciting" by removing everyone's steering wheel and replacing it with horse reins. If your issue is with the mechanics of pointing a thing at another thing and clicking Mouse 1 then you have a fundamental problem with the genre of first person shooters in general.

    Fun fact, those factors that require you to "get to know our gun better"? They already exist. We give them crazy names like Recoil, Bloom, Rate of Fire, Damage, Accuracy, Bullet Velocity, etc. and they impact your weapon's performance far more than any attachment ever could.

    If you want no attachments and convoluted aiming mechanics go play Counterstrike.
    • Up x 2
  3. LordAnnihilator

    I... what?

    I'm with Kane on this. You are basically taking issue with a core premise of First Person Shooters, heck Shooters in general, namely pointing a reticule at the enemy. That is one of the founding tenets of shooters - AIMING, in this case aiming down sights. A lot of iron sights in this game are not great, so we use dot sights to make them better, or use a higher zoom scope to operate better at range. None of the other upgrades are necessarily "required", but buying a sight can make it significantly easier to actually aim and shoot your gun. I know certain sights confuse me with their terrible design, and I would suffer trying to use them as opposed to just spending a couple certs for a sight. Its hardly a huge expenditure compared to the cost of a gun.

    The weapon customisation is decidedly deeper than "equip forward grip". Some guns don't have it or don't gain much from it, some guns might benefit more from laser sight or extended mags, its not exactly "extensive" by any means. Hipfire is partially fixable with a laser sight, and can be improved with one, and hipfire in general is for emergencies or for more mobile combat styles that doesn't involve deliberately aiming for the head. Aiming at the head is another pretty core thing to shooters, and while it could be tweaked completely upending it isn't exactly a good answer. I don't even NEED to be shooting someone to necessarily be effective in a fight, I could just healbot, repairbot, or drive a sunderer or the like and still contribute. Gunplay is central to the game, but there are other minor facets.

    Limiting guns to only one upgrade seriously hampers any sort of variety. guns with terrible iron sights would lose out on being able to equip a rail or ammo option, as you practically need a sight to be able to aim the thing. Some guns become much less versatile and useful without being able to change their equipment, and this change COMPLETELY INVALIDATES the main benefit of S variant weapons - namely, their extreme customisation ability.

    And rather than toning down the meta you claim exists, it would only enhance it - most players would take the sight and focus on headshots, while the loss of laser sight and similar upgrades reduces the benefits of going for bodyshots. More attachments is good, but they would have to be seriously potent to be a better pick over a sight that unilaterally enhances gameplay by making it easier to aim. Do you even use Iron Sights on guns, because you clearly don't know how terrible they are.

    And what Kane says rings true. Having to deal with these things gives guns a lot more depth than "aim for head and click to win lol". This isn't a point and click adventure, no matter what the headshot warrior Heavy Assaults might think.
  4. karlooo

    Yeah everyone, except those thousands of newcomers that arrived last year and all left, literally. They obviously had a very exiting experience. You guys make me sick, really...

    But yes I only use iron sights lately and they are all good, easy to get used to, except NS assault weapons. So, they would require the dot sight, meaning they won't have the forward grip. Dot sight enhances aim but they are supposed to be accurate anyways, so it's whatever. They're not benefitting off of this because every other ES gun has good iron sights.

    This would enhance variety twice as much than what we have now because we have no variety lol. You choose dot and grip, only 1 choice.
    If you think some primary weapons need a laser sight, then the conversation over....

    Anyways what are you guys defending? Every single new player left, we are back to the start, what is there to lose?
    Oh and no we are not back to where we were, this time we have drastically decreased performance compared to what it was in the past because of this disgusting souless NSO junk.
  5. Shadowpikachu

    This is proof you can say or shoot down ANYTHING and say 'yeah thats wont help/wont change the fact people are leaving and no one likes the game'.
    • Up x 1
  6. Demigan

    All the people with 3rd party programs to project custom dots across any game:
    "A way to nerf everyone else and get even more advantages from my program? Yey!". Hell some might go oldschool and simply use a crosshair that indicates the center of their screen to place a washable marker on their screen.

    Removing dot sights is not an answer to anything, its regression to solve a problem (lack of variety) by making the problem bigger (even less choices). Rather than remove stuff, buff the other options and add more.

    Also using the excuse of "everybody leaves" and statistics that I still haven't found like how many new players join the game every month and how many leave is not a good way to justify any random thing you come up with. How many idea's have you made that were all justified by "but people leave" So far?.
    • Up x 2
  7. Botji

    I am not surprised, its the same person that thinks its bad veterans have a advantage because they aim for the head and it should get fixed. Seems fairly obvious its either a very elaborate troll or the FPS genre is just exactly the wrong type of genre for them when the basics and core of the entire genre, aiming and skill, is something bad that needs to be changed/fixed.
    • Up x 1
  8. LordAnnihilator

    Karlooo loves this justification. About how "thousands" of new players are leaving and obviously his ideas will suddenly bring all the new players in and revitalise the game. Never mind that a lot of them will only alienate older players (like this sight change) or confuse and discourage new players (also like this sight change. "Why can't I equip a sight and something else? Am I just meant to deal with the iron sights? This sucks!"). He just refuses to accept other opinions or actual FACTS and statistics. I don't know why he still plays the game if he hates so much about it...

    Iron Sights are usually not a 1x zoom, I think its something like 1.25x, which gives reflex sights value over iron sights, as they mainly give you a clearer, more controllable and understandable picture of the situation. Then there are sights other than 1x, which provide enhanced zoom and thus functionality at range. 2x, 3x, 4x, the sniper 6x and up scopes...

    Sometimes people pick scopes for the reticule. I know I prefer the cross shaped 4x scopes to the triple chevron variants, so its a matter of personal preference. I find the Iron Sights of the Magshot perfectly useable, but despise the Iron Sights of the VS pistols, especially the spiker. The TR Doku weapon sights offend me on a personal level, and I actively suffer in accuracy without a sight. You may find Iron Sights perfectly useable, but others don't. Otherwise we wouldn't have cosmetic variants for sights, if just anyone could "get used to it". If you feel every ES gun has perfectly good Iron Sights, thats fine, but not everyone feels the same way, and depriving people of what could well be classified as accessibility options would not go over well.

    A quick google showed a fair few threads of people talking about Iron Sights. Some like them, some can't stand them. It's preference, and you can't just punish everyone else for not sharing your preference, even if it makes it easier for them to aim.

    Theres no "need" about it. In the same way, you don't "need" a forward grip at all. The only thing you might "need" is a sight, because you might not like the iron sights or want a sight with more zoom. Forward grip is not the optimal choice in every situation, might barely affect the gun in question, and you might prefer ext mags or laser sight. If you think we "need" forward grip to be good with a gun, clearly it is just "you" thinking that.

    Your bias is showing, and your overreacting is evident. "Every single new player?" Unlikely as all get out. I've ran into more than my fair share of newer players, and if we were not getting new players period... well, the game would probably be dead as people took breaks or moved on. Besides, like Demigan said, you can't prove this, there are no statistics that we can access, and you are clearly making it out to be worse than it is.

    Like I've said before, performance issues due to NSO is a fine enough complaint, and I'm sorry you're struggling with that. But we have issues like this cropping up with every major update, so it isn't new.

    And calling NSO "disgusting soulless junk" isn't fair, honestly. I feel NSO have more than enough personality to them, and contrary to your previously stated beliefs, they won't take any individuality from the factions. I think they're great, and evidence the Devs haven't totally given up on this game, despite all the right they have to do so.

    This game is still kicking, and we want it to keep kicking. That is one of the things we are defending from your crazy anti-sights idea.
  9. karlooo

    People can rejoice from little things. They do not need much to be satisfied.
    In a game that has 'everything', why cannot the players find anything? I myself have tried inviting dozens of ppl and not a single one stayed for long, that player decline is justification.

    Why? ....Because it's not fun. And you may ask how will my, literally said, restrictions change that?
    The objective is as simple as it gets, it needs 0 explanation, no tutorial. What makes no, and will never make any sense is the content of the game. You can be this, you can be that, you can be anything, there is no tutorial that can be made, to make any rhyme or reason in this because there is no logic.

    Does the standard player need all of it?

    The beauty is in simplicity. When something is not lost in detail, in features (It doesn't mean a lack in complexity).

    That's what I mean by stop adding, innovate. In every single topic.
    That's what I meant by, impaired under the use of drugs, currently a requirement. You need your basic senses removed, your touch with reality, turning you into a zombie that can only point dots and click. This is not what Planetside 2 should have been.

    But anyways you guys got such a narrow vision, I don't want to continue.

    Oh yeah and you reminded me, why is this even in the game? What sick psycho needs to be praised, after each kill like some god? It's probably some tracking program to gather personal info and behavior.
  10. LordAnnihilator

    This isn't some big philosophy debate here. The things you discuss are hardly "little" and when It comes to a game, the "not much" has to be ridiculously good to satisfy people, especially in todays game market. Like a game as simple as Tetris, for instance. Planetside is complex in its very nature as an MMOFPS, and removing content and options is more likely to drive people away than anything. We don't like these ideas, and you seem to be the only one who wants these options removed, so we can assume you're in the minority on this one.

    Maybe its down to you? You clearly despise the games current state, based on all the myriad and sweeping changes you've suggested (again, why are you even still playing if you hate the games state that much) so I doubt you're the best person to guide and show new players the parts of this game that are fun. Unless you asked them all and got statements as to WHY they left after you introduced them, you don't have any evidence that the issues you talk about are what caused them to leave. If anything, you should be basing your ideas around why they left in the first place, not what seemingly only you view as an issue. I highly doubt one of the issues that made them quit was "everyone uses sight attachments and not Iron Sights".

    I'm beginning to wonder if Botji is onto something and you're a troll, because this is insane logic. The objective is a lot more complex than you think: with combat, capturing points, establishing spawns, dealing with and using vehicles, the lattice system... there is a reason that the games BASIC CAPTURE MECHANICS are one of the things covered in the tutorial on starting a new character. The tutorial isn't perfect, but it does get that right at least. It would be very easy for a new player to feel lost without explanation, and a lot of "capture point" mechanics in other games at least get a cursory explanation.

    The current tutorial also covers briefly each class and vehicle if you pull them. Its not in-depth at all, but that initial pointer is particularly helpful to someone very new to the game who wouldn't understand the classes purpose. Sure, some are self explanatory like Combat Medic, but others are not. There are restrictions, the content of the game makes perfect sense for what it is, and your seeming inability to understand the logic behind things as simple as LETTING PLAYERS USE SIGHTS OTHER THAN DEFAULT will just keep rendering your arguments invalid. If you had an actual point that makes sense, I would at least consider this, but you're being blatantly opinionated, biased, and making changes based solely on what YOU want, which particularly in this case runs counter to what everyone else wants.

    You keep ignoring our opinions and facts. Is it any wonder we in turn seem to ignore yours?

    This "vision" of yours, clearly doesn't fit with everyone elses. The sights thing, believing the Prowler is useless, locking all vehicles behind Outfits... your ideas run counter to common sense a lot of the time, and overall it seems more like you just want a game that fits YOUR tastes, but want Planetsides background, lore, and aesthetic. You're using bs nonsense in an attempt to justify ideas that would be rejected by most developers, and certainly wouldn't fly with RPG or Daybreak.

    You literally just contradicted yourself by declaring simplicity is beauty, but then saying it doesn't mean a lack of complexity. Something simple can be complex, but removing features and detail means there's only so complex a simple thing can be. And for a FIRST PERSON SHOOTER, the "headshot meta" is one of the most simple and basic ideas there is, that has been a thing since forever. Innovating is fine, but ripping out and marginalizing core components of what makes Planetside Planetside in the process won't make it a better Planetside... it'll be a whole different game.

    You have your "vision" of what Planetside 2 should have been, but this contradicts what Planetside always has been, and will be. Your vision would not see a glorious return to form and a boom in population, rather it would drive the remaining veterans to finally give up, leaving only the diehard fans and curious vultures to watch the game rapidly careen towards a demise as violent as the updates your vision would create.

    Our vision is narrow because we are rooted in what Planetside is and can be, as well as what is sensible. If your vision is so different to the game you see... GO MAKE YOUR OWN GAME. Continuing to peddle this grand sweeping vision clearly won't work out, as your many topics show, so peddle it elsewhere. Make it a reality. Yelling at us that we are wrong and you are flawlessly correct won't change our opinions, it just makes us thing you're crazy and have no damn clue how to design a game, let alone make changes to a game like Planetside.

    If you hate what the game is that much, then why do you still play? Either go make your vision a reality, or move on with your life. Either way, you are highly unlikely to convert this bunch of heathens.

    3rd party apps are hardly a new thing, a lot of games have them. Recursion mainly seems to ape the Halo Announcer system - making comments after kills, particular achievements, etc. It definitely doesn't gather personal info (or it would have been ditched long before now, and not given official approval) and I doubt any behaviour it "hypothetically" gathers is worth a damn. Some people pick it up as an overlay, to customise crosshairs and reticules to their liking - just like the current sight variants. If you can't see the appeal... well thats just, like, your opinion, man.
  11. That_One_Kane_Guy

    • Up x 3
  12. karlooo

    You guys want to continue lol?

    It's obvious that you give 0 shíts about Planetside, I can see it. All your comments are filled with emptiness, there's no passion, no love, you just want to defend the repetitive, braindead tasks, which are clearly not healthy for the game.
    I'm interested, what motivates you to reply on the forums, daily?

    You know why the devs cater the 'vets' with like, acceptable standards, generally speaking? Not because it's popular but because these people are much easier to manage. They have lost their basic natural senses, to not give them the realization that something is not right.

    The devs could try and improve this game but they are obviously working on something else, occasionally they toss you a bone like to some animal to satisfy you. Meanwhile, their main task is to milk you guys, consume the soul lol, everything. Steal and sell your personal information and behavior, which is a crystal clear case with 3rd party programs. Tell me if it was just a feature why couldn't they just make it part of the game?

    The developers have you for subhuman species, only to be tested on, and you clearly deserve to be treated like this. You guys are the cancer.

    What are the devs doing right now, anybody knows?
  13. karlooo

    There's your rambling... which is more rational than any of your guys comments.
  14. That_One_Kane_Guy

    Correction of the ignorant and mockery of the stupid.

    Give you three guesses.
    • Up x 2
  15. LordAnnihilator

    Rational? That comment? I don't think so. Lets take this piece by piece.

    What does passion have to do with this? Removing Sights or forcing people to use Iron Sights to get the benefit of attachments isn't a move to "add passion back to the game", its a dumb idea that reduces accessibility. Some games can get away with only using Iron Sights, but to take away our options NOW would remove some peoples passion for the game. I know I'd be a lot less gung-ho about possibly picking up a new gun if I knew for a fact I could not work with its Iron Sight.

    Emptiness of passion is just another excuse you're making to justify your ideas. Demigan has had more than a few ideas for changing up the base gameplay, and if I was of the mind to do so I could certainly throw out some new ideas for missions, capture mechanics, game modes... the changes you suggest would not necessarily fix these "repetitive braindead tasks". I mean, people will still go for headshots if there is any advantage to it, Iron Sights or no. And if there is no benefit to headshots anymore, then the skill gap lowers and people focus on bodyshots instead. Which in the current age of Nanoweave, will wholly invalidate certain guns (like the Gauss SAW, which can 3 tap to the head but has a horrible bodyshot ttk against nanoweave) and put more power in hipfire guns (if you can land the shots without adsing, dont bother!).

    I'm motivated to look on these forums because I ENJOY this game, am driven to INTERACT with the community, and I'm a total sucker for looking at stupid opinions and laughing. Watching and interacting with the recent spate of debacles about the Rumble Repair removal has been endlessly amusing, as no matter what side you're on I feel it has barely affected gameplay in-game, bar possibly 3 man crews changing up their third members class, so I interact with the debate for the hell of it. I have zero real harasser experience, but what the heck, might as well weigh in.

    I actually am coming to enjoy debating with you, because I know no matter what I say, you'll just give me more material to type a whole essay about. I'm also a mite bit concerned with how you actively seem to be disconnected with reality. Not acknowledging our points and facts, peddling frankly insane ideas and logic... I don't know whether to laugh at you or be worried for your mental health.

    I'm going to be honest. I don't understand this statement. I do understand the "vets are catered to" bit, because "but all the new players totally left!" Is your de facto response to any argument we make. But the bit about managing people, senses? Confuses me. I think you're saying that vets have no brains anymore, that the game is "not right" and they can't see that (either that or you are referring to the devs in this statement). But counterpoint - you're a vet, aren't you? What makes you any different to them, aside from the wild and crazy ideas? We think you're as "senseless" as the vets you describe, because you clearly don't understand what we are saying. Either that or you graduated top of your class from the politician school of "Ignoring The Oppositions Perfectly Good Arguments Until They Go Away". But we aren't going anywhere I'm afraid, so you're going to have to put up with us.

    • Rogue Planet Games is exclusively working on Planetside as far as I know. Their parent company Daybreak manages other divisions, but RPG is not working on "something else". The other divisions are working on new stuff, but RPG is not slated to be doing anything but Planetside.
    • If they are merely tossing us bones, they're practically forking over whole skeletons - Integration was a pretty big update, adding a slew of new weapons, gear, and two whole vehicles to the game, and they've openly stated they're continuing to work on things like NPE.
    • I'm afraid I can't take your comment that they're milking us dry seriously when you say "consume the soul lol". I certainly haven't spent any money on this game, and while others have, I sincerely doubt its a huge profit margin given how tiny the dev team is. The recent hacker problems and a refusal to directly acknowledge them has also cost them some memberships. Besides, Planetside is hardly the most predatory money maker out there. Lots of cosmetics and the ability to skip the cert grind, sure, but I've seen much worse. If they're milking us, they're barely getting much.
    • "crystal clear case"? Yet more evidence you blatantly didn't read our comments or ignored them. Recursion literally doesn't steal any data. All it does is provide an optional overlay, stat tracker, and announcer system. Further, Planetside itself barely gets any of our data. An email, maybe, but thats all, and you can literally make one of those whenever you want.
    • I highly doubt our in game efforts are going to be sold for fat money, who the heck would want to buy tracked data for "Planetside 2 gameplay" when all our stats and efforts are LITERALLY AVAILABLE FOR FREE FROM THE API? Who would even want that? And why? This argument holds literally no basis in common sense.
    • They didn't add it because its OPTIONAL. Its secondary to the game itself, and not necessary. But if you do want it, you get a voiceover, stat tracking via the API, Recursions achievements system, gameplay recording, and the overlay that allows you to set up crosshairs and such. Its literally Daybreak approved and has been for years.
    Adding some links. By all means, look at them. You'll probably try to twist them as evidence for your point anyway.
    -The Homepage for Recursion:
    -An FAQ covering how the software works:

    The devs are supposedly working on finishing up the NSO update before moving on to the New Player Experience, though I suspect they've had to deal with cheaters first. You claim we are cancer, but calling the devs mindless stupid idiots and saying we are dumb for wanting to support this game is not gonna get them (or us, for that matter) to listen to you. Calling us subhuman does not endear us to you, and like I've said before, that just makes me want to put down your ideas more.

    I leave you with a requote of a comment I made earlier, that you ignored, that I feel needs to be asked until you answer: