Integrate global redeployment within the respawn system. Recent changes do not cut it, here is why

Discussion in 'PlanetSide 2 Gameplay Discussion' started by UberBonisseur, Sep 4, 2013.

  1. UberBonisseur

    Currently, you can redeploy on bases within 15 seconds through Reinforcements needed if you are inferior in numbers

    The base goes off the list when the pops reach 50/50 at this base.
    However, it doesn't prevent squad leaders from redeploying here, and even if the pops are even, all squad members can access this base thanks to "Squad spawn", which lets squad members redeploy on the spawn nearest to your squad leader, on a 15 sec cooldown.

    So, big outfits can already do this, if they manage to redeploy 4 guys, 48 will follow without warning and only with a 15 second downtime, from one point of the map to the other.
  2. Phazaar

    The little eraser button next to 'Font Family' in the typey typey window erases all formatting from selected text :)
    • Up x 3
  3. UberBonisseur

    • Up x 3
  4. CazadorDeLaBruja

    I agree... when i first joined the game over a year ago i put a lot of money into my galaxy... but found out its super expensive, easy to spot and shoot down and is only good for 1 drop before it dies (these problems havnt been addressed even with the new redeploy for squads)... even if you have support defending you all enemies will shoot the gal before any of the support air can defend you. so on my current account ive spent no money on gal or liberator... they are junk and die so easy compared to the cost of thier use. ive found love in using the flash... its cheap, deadly in the right hands and offers deployment options for one buddy... not to mention the scout radar is a must have for any assault or defense. if im not using my flash... im redeploying to any base i want within my area or back to gate to get another flash. the only way id ever use a gal again would be if it were to get a high altitude cloak... meaning it can only cloak from high altitude and if anyone jumps out or uses a weapon the cloak is cancelled for 45 seconds. this feature should come with the option to lock weapons to prevent yahoos form ruining things for people. if you fly low the cloak doesnt disappear but a highly visible shimmer effect much like when an infantry shield takes damage should be all enemies see... it blends well against the sky from enemy aircraft can spot you from far off and come to investigate.
  5. CazadorDeLaBruja

    yes the current version of the game sucks horribly. originally the game promised so much... but all of those features were cancelled or removed... and many of the features we want are listed under "Unscheduled random update to whatever"

    list of things that made the game worth it but aren't in the game anymore:

    Dark nights.
    Lighting effects.

    Game Mechanics:
    Faction Different roles and advantages.
    Terrain Tactical Strategies.
    Flame Throwers.

    Things promise as a bait and switch to get us into the game but never have been or will be implemented:

    Full customization RPG game mechanics (this by itself would at least keep the game alive for another year... it wont happen cause the game was launched too soon and the old staff are all gon to work on EQN)
    NPC Faction. (when the VR Zone was introduced along with the target dummies i got excited that they might be working on this... but later they said they will never introduce NPCs into the game in any capacity *so i had to say good bye to the dream of a Vanu invasion*)
    Story and realistic missions system.(the missions idea is crap... the way they want to implement missions is boring and wont lead to anything but more wasted time on crap so they will ultimately cancel it or it wont progress any further then the basic Events system)
    Fully connected and persistent world complete with oceans and island hopping layouts and even naval combat. (bit of a reach but they promised it and it will never happen and the implementation of the basic crap we have is terrible)
    Continent sized Continents. (the "Continents" are at most 6km across... i can run that distance 8 times a day.)

    if you are wondering why i dont quit... my monthly premium & $800 spent on cash items in PS2 keeps me here... i dont think any further explanation other then its cheaper to keep my premium and check back on the game from month to month then to quit outright and hunt for a new game to spend money on. PS2 and that SOE CEO said that the game would be around for at least 20 years... i dont want to be playing PS2 when im 40. its jsut not worth it to let it live into 2015.
  6. UberBonisseur

    It's been a long time, thread !

    Glad to see you back on the front page.
    Relevant as ever !
  7. Sigmundr Rumare

    I'm from the anti-deployment side, while not as extreme as your OP example, I'm more extreme than most. My system would work thus:

    First, spawn changes:
    --No redeploying UP the lattice, though you can deploy to any base behind you and to your warpgate. All lattice pushing would need to be done via vehicle.
    --No jumping to another lattice lane.
    --You can only spawn at bases, spawn beacons, and sunderers that you already are in the hex with.
    --Reinforcements needed do not affect spawns.
    --Squad leader's position does not affect spawns.

    Vehicle changes:
    --More transport vehicles for small forces (6 man + 1 pilot transport vehicles for both air and ground, high speed; ES buggies, Lib with rumble seats from Roadmap)
    --Flash resource cost should be dramatically reduced, handling dramatically improved.
    --Galaxys should hold 12 + pilot, this would allow for dedicated Gal pilots transporting troops to the front lines. Logistic officers in large outfits anyone? :p
    --Deployment exp should be rewarded for people who rode in your Sunderer just like the Galaxy works currently.
    --At least double deployment exp.

    --I'd personally like to almost double the distance between bases but this might can work without this change.
    --I'm also taking into account a lot of the resource revamp changes, such as common pool resources instead of categorized.

    These changes would cause larger forces (zergs) to commit to lanes and require more time and logistics to efficiency switch and push up a different lane, while allowing smaller strike forces to move quickly across the map. Attacking a base would change from staring an empty spawn shack wondering if a platoon or more will spawn, to moving most of your forces to intercept the convoy coming from the next base and stopping them there. This would encourage more battles between bases (which can include both vehicles and infantry supporting them moving up) instead of the current "Drive 500 meters and wait, rinse and repeat."
  8. MorganM

    You say 'nonsense' but you're flat out wrong. That quote from SoE is spot on. We see this happen all the time especially with TIW on Waterson. Just when you think you got Indar Ex, Reagent Rock, or any bio lab during prime time.... they swarm in and crush the opposition. We fall back and wait... they never come... we pull a big vehicle zerg and march over... they are gone.... try to cap again... repeat.

    This is one of the big reasons BCP and The Enclave got bored. They could rapidly drop an insane amount of organized troops on any engagement, crush them, and move on. It's frustrating for those seeking balanced engagements that are won on skill and strategy. Eventually it was boring for them as well; there's no real competition.

    You're putting up a false argument. Redeploying 3 to 5 times to get somewhere vs. allowing someone to just redeploy there in one shot fails to recognize how many people say "forget it... I'm not spending several minutes of receploying just to get over there... " They pick a fight within reach or they switch continents or they grab a vehicle and drive/fly over there. Grabbing a vehicle assumes some risk; they could get waylaid by enemies enroute.

    SoE is trying to walk a line here and find the right balance but stop assuming they are morons and don't undrestand just because you don't like it or you can't be bothered to fly / redeploy several times to get where you want to go.
  9. AltF4Fun

    It doesnt really matter for me.I like both options.As long as its not half baked like now.Either go this or that way.....
  10. UberBonisseur

    As I said previously:
    Only difference between using /suicide 3 times in a row and a 45 second respawn timer is how tedious the former gets after a while.

    Make the system tedious on purpose to avoid the problem instead of proper integration ?
    Great design.

    Moreover, as I speak, in this very moment, people can ALREADY deploy at the other side of the map within 15 seconds if they have a squad member there. Because the game gives shortcuts to squad members so they can "regroup". Shortcuts that can be abused to generate a MASSIVE REDEPLOYMENT with a 15 second timer. It just takes ONE guy to spawn 11 others.

    Numbers are 49/51 for your team ?
    >The base goes in the "Reinforcements needed" list.
    >Deploy squad leaders there
    >Deploy the rest of the squad
    >Numbers are now 60/40

    If an outfit wants to crush you, it WILL crush you.
    Not mentionning The Enclave was using massive gal drops, and not deployment...

    I'm not assuming SOE are morons, I assume they assume I'm a moron.
  11. Ronin Oni


    If an outfit wants to crush, it can. No spawn restrictions will change that (particularly not with Gal Spawning)

    So, why make it harder for unaffiliated players to react to battles?

    I wouldn't mind longer spawn times for moving across Lattice lanes so I could just sit in deploy screen for 90 seconds instead of redeploying 3 times to get there (A redeploy has 10 second timer + 15 second penalty to respawn anywhere other than WG + 10 seconds default spawn time) but I don't see a need for:
    a) removal of squad leader spawn
    b) removal of reinforcement spawn
    c) change of current default spawn locations (no penalty to spawn time)

    I could see reinforcement/squad spawn given spawn time penalty depending on distance however, but reduced from global spawn distance penalty if that was added. (so 60 seconds instead of 90 for example)

    The biggest issue to remember I think is that there are a lot of IO players out there who just want to spawn near an active battle and fight as infantry. This game can hardly afford more large player quitting because players get frustrated from staring at a spawn screen too long.

    Transport is still relevant for attacking anyways.
  12. Wecomeinpeace

    They STILL have that /suicide console command? Oh lord...
  13. TriumphOfMan

    SOE aren't assuming anything, you just are.

    It exists so you can still move people somehow if your outfit for some reason runs dry on resources and isn't left trying to run en masse on foot somewhere. Not a real problem for large outfits but for small outfits that have had no territory all evening, quite a possibility.

    Prior to having spawn restrictions put into the game infact all we did was /suicide and spawn at the required base. Spawn restrictions were something we campaigned for adding to the game. Without them it made defenses completely trivial.

    We did that because it was faster than /suiciding hopping to our objective. Remember, The Enclave was against having spawn systems allowing rapid redeployment from outfits in game. Gal drops, good for the game, 100 ******** unstoppably spawning into a shielded room, bad for the game.

    We abused this and also believed it should be removed from the game. It was a bad mechanic and encroached upon the role of the spawn beacon (which should be a default piece of equipment for squad leaders).
  14. UberBonisseur

    I'm not sure if you're dense on purpose.

    Since SOE isn't going to remove spawn hopping anytime soon, I just want it to be properly implemented; knowing that none of the restrictions we currently have prevent massive outfit redeployments. They just make it harder for the average player to get strategic awareness.

    Sure if it takes more effort, less people are going to use it, but there's still the possibility.
    It doesn't solve the problem, it doesn't improve the experience. It's clumsy.

    Thus, I don't think they are morons, I think they are not going to fix it because it takes time and "it's not that bad"
  15. TriumphOfMan

    Not sure if you're being dense on purpose.

    Making a bad game mechanic more accessible is a moronic idea. The only thing that keeps it under control is that it's unintuitive and annoying to use so alot of people ignore it. Just because they're not fixing it right now doesn't mean they should spend their time to make the situation worse.

    If you want them to hurry up you need to do what we did to force their hand. Abuse the ever living **** out of it to ruin the game until they fix it. Why do you think Steel Rain went away? Because we proved it was ******* awful for the game by abusing the hell out of it and then pushing for it to be removed.
  16. UberBonisseur

    Screw it, I'll just bump that
  17. Kerempooh

    Well here's a suggestion i made in the other thread.

    The way I see it, both sides have their points. On the one hand, individual players want to be able to reach their preferred battleground without tedious redeploying from base to base, especially when first logging in, but on the other hand the ability to teleport large groups instantly around the map pretty much invalidates any point of having a large map or strategic level to the game.

    So, here's the proposal: Redeploy anywhere on the map, but at a hefty resource cost (talking about nanites here.)

    Basically this would work as a kind of a soft cooldown timer for redeployment. If you want to get somewhere, make a choice: pull a nice shotty shotty vehicle or spawn there as an infantryman. To make the whole thing a bit more strategic, I'd make the cost proportional to the number of lattice links travelled. You may go to the other end of the continent but you'll burn all 600 nanites, and that's a 10 minute cooldown to wait out.

    This nanite-cost system would have another benefit in that it would "stagger" troop deployment - squad members would have different amounts of nanites in store and some would have to wait in order to reach the required redeployment cost. Conversely, a good platoon would be able to time its redeployment but then it would have to wait till all members have enough... which would all add to the strategic level of the game and make distances mean something again.
  18. Fluttyman-Miller


    I was a public platoon leader, I played daily and for long hours, I preferred to dedicate my platoon to a single lane and hold it.
    Some people call it zerging. I call it dedication / holding your frontline.

    Every day I saw the following:

    --We take control of a base and start the capture timer.
    --We set up some defenses (Anti Air, maybe a few Lancers / Lashers on higher ground near-by, waiting for ennemy response).
    --No ennemies respond, we almost cap the base.
    --Full ennemy platoon redeploys on us from the other side of the map, forms MAX crash and kicks us out in less then 30 seconds.
    --We fall back to nearest base, regroup and form defenses waiting for the newly formed ennemy zerg that just redeployed on us on previous base.
    --They don't come because they redeployed somewhere else the second we retreated.
    --We repeat our attack on the base we just got kicked out of.
    --We were ready for the ennemy redeployment and Max crash this time and we cap the base.
    --It took us over 30 minutes to take a base we could have taken in 4 minutes.


    Vehicules / Beacons / Instant Action / Squad deploy >>>> should be the only way to get somewhere. Note that 3/4 of these are drop pods.
    If we kill all the guys that drop pod on us, in a pretty random fashion, they will regroup in spawn room and MAX crash us anyway. The differense is at least this would give the attacking platoon a little more time to prepare.

    This is why:
    --Instant Action and Squad deploy should have a 10minute timer instead of 5.
    --Redeployment limited to the Warpgate, the Hex you died in and the sundies / gals in the surrounding Hexs but not the spawn rooms in the surrounding Hexs, to prevent the Hex-hopping Uberbonisseur has explained already.

    yes i know i'm a terrible PL etc...
  19. FateJH

    I remember this thread.

    And I remember the bold DEAD PEOPLE DO NOT FIGHT not making sense then. Or maybe it was another thread. I don't know because it feels like this kind of argument has been made repeatedly, with little attempt to expound upon it properly.

    It still doesn't make enough sense to keep harping on it without further context. Platoons jump in and out of lanes rapidly as the spawn system exists, The weakening and bolstering of lanes already naturally happens when platoons redeploy across the map or merely when they switch lanes. It doesn't matter how many people are in limbo while in transit because what actually matters is what they accomplish once they finally get there. It would have been more sensical to point out how frontline redeployment under the proposed system would still be possible but would also be stymied by an extensively long respawn timer, depending on how far away the destination is. If the timer was longer than an active cap time, you'd never get directly to the destination base in time to contribute to a defense, or you'd get there with virtually little time to make any sort of difference. Just repeating something people didn't understand the first time didn't help curry understanding any subsequent iteration.

    Be that the case, I still do not believe allowing global redeployment is a good thing. Getting to the front lines once is a good thing for actually getting into the fight, so the game attempting to find a good battle to put you in once you load the game up is a good thing. Getting to where your platoon is from the Warp Gate once you join it is a good thing because it keeps people together it actually sends you to where your squad it). Getting to the front lines any other time after the absolute first change of front lines should be planned; massive movement of troops should be able to be intercepted.
  20. UberBonisseur

    My point was that as long as your guys are in "limbo mode", it stills has an impact on the field. While it doesn't entirely solve the problem of "Instant Platoon, add water", you can't afford to have 48 people phase out for 2 minutes waiting for a redeployment.

    As of now, you only need one person out of 12 to physically relocate while the 11 others can still be cleaning up a fight or contributing to a push. In the worst case scenario, it translates to recalling the entire platoon to the warpgate, so a Gal drop remains the only viable way of moving large numbers of troops across the map.

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